Author Topic: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011  (Read 1338 times)

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Offline trapeze

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Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« on: December 11, 2011, 01:34:31 AM »
Impressions and opinions:

Romney has bad makeup. His face looks orange. It glows. Looks weird.

Gingrich is thumping the lectern with his finger. The way that the lectern is set up with the microphone you can hear even a light tap and it's annoying.

This is a good debate in that there are fewer people on stage. Cain, of course, is out and Huntsman decided to pass on this debate so there are only six on stage. More time for debate.

The moderators are Diane Sawyer and George Steponallofus. That's bad. They suck.

Newt is smiling and laughing a lot. I guess he is continuing his good guy persona plus it's easier to smile when you are the front runner.

Bachmann is getting some serious time to talk and is making (mostly) good use of it. Santorum is getting shorted again. Which is too bad.

If I could have my way and pick the order of popularity of the candidates it would be Santorum, Bachmann, Perry, Gingrich, Romney, Huntsman. That's in order of (in my opinion) conservatism. Paul is off the list because he is a nut and I mean that in all sincerity. Paul sounds reasonable until he starts down the foreign policy route and starts going full isolation. He isn't a conservative. He isn't really a Republican. He is a libertarian. And a crank.

Romney is different is this debate. He is far more animated and talkative. He is going on the offensive against Gingrich. And anyone else who takes a poke at him. What a difference a month makes. A month ago he was the presumed nominee in waiting and was just coasting through the debates...trying to not say anything at all and, due to a cooperative media, mostly getting away with it. The problem is that he looks desperate at this point and the funny looking dayglo orange makeup gives him a bizarre appearance.

Diane Sawyer is obnoxious. When she is droning on and on in the lead up to her eventual question you just want to shove her down a short flight of stairs or something. Or maybe shoot her in the ass with one of those tranquilizer darts that they use on Wild Kingdom. She needs to be released back into the wild with her own species.

It's pretty obvious that this is the final debate before the Iowa caucus. These guys are all serious about defining themselves. Paul isn't wasting any time over defining himself as anti-Israel. Gingrich smacks down Paul over this issue.  Romney tries to split the baby on the Israel/Palestinian issue...probably not going to fly with many conservatives.

Bachmann is pretty good about hiding the fact that she is only a two term congresswoman. She talks about her time in congress like she has been there forever. I serious. She is very clever in the way that she presents herself. If she were the front runner then the others wouldn't hesitate to point out her relative inexperience at the federal level. As an "also ran" she is free to work this verbal and mental sleight of hand.

Perry is still trying to get traction. He is mostly doing it the right way. He is targeting O'Bama at almost every opportunity rather than going after the other Republican candidates. He gets audience applause when he does it. Probably good for a point or two improvement in the way he polls. Sadly, too little, too late.

ABC is doing something very annoying with their commercial time. When they cut to commercial they play about two minutes worth of ads and then they come back with a "Debate Rewind" for thirty seconds and then cut away for another two minutes of ads. That sucks. Idiots.

Perry's debate performance is FINALLY where it should have been from the very first one. Again, too little, too late.

It's kind of funny listening to Romney telling how he is an ordinary guy, just like everyone else. He has to go all the way back to his father to claim his "poor person" heritage. He really has to strain to try and pull it off and it doesn't really fly. He is a rich guy...a patrician, and there is no way that he can disguise it. It's comical watching him try.

Santorum is really getting shorted on air time. Nothing new, of course, but you have to wonder where he would be if he got equal time.

Bachmann would be my number one choice if it weren't for her annoying habit of making sh*t up like the "retard in a needle" Gardasil story. If she had walked that one back (or better yet, never made it at all) she would still be in the top tier.

Gingrich is very cool under fire. Make no mistake, he is under fire from the other candidates on stage and from the two MFMers who are moderating. He looks cool, calm and poised while they attempt to heap crap onto him. This bodes well for how he might hold up under O'Bama. O'Bama is an idiot and I have no doubt that Gingrich would vivisect him (figuratively speaking) in any encounter. Gingrich is totally fearless. He seems to relish an opportunity to kick the MFMers asses whenever they try to pull a fast one. This appears to be a lesson that he learned (after the fact) from when he was Speaker. He will not allow the MFM to control the debate...to frame issues using false assumptions. He throws it right back in their faces. None of the other candidates (except sometimes Paul) will do this. Sadly, I see Bachmann still taking the bait on occasion.

Steponallofus poses a stupid ass question (What is the one thing you have learned from someone else on stage?) and Santorum (sadly) tries to answer it. If I had been pitched that question I wouldn't dignify it with an answer. I would throw it right back at them..."Are you serious? I'm running for president and this is your question? Why not ask me what my favorite color is or if I could be any kind of animal what kind of animal would I be? This is serious stuff, George. Why don't you treat it and us seriously?" Perry and Romney take the bait and answer it seriously. Looks like they are all going to fall for this crap. Too bad. Oh, well.

Paul sez that freedom is based on tolerance and non-violence. What utter nonsense. Our freedom was originally purchased with blood and death and treasure with the extremely violent overthrow of the British. It has been secured by the extremely violent Civil War and WWII and so on and so on. Freedom isn't free and never has been. Paul is an absolute moron on his pacifist libertarian crap.

I think Gingrich won the debate in that no one was ever able to really damage him. He still looked like the smartest guy on stage.

The post debate spin started (amazingly) by pointing out a tactical error by Romney. Romney at one point during the debate tried to bet Perry $10,000 that he was mis-quoting him. The media spin is that that amount of money represents about three month's pay for most Americans and that it was insensitive to casually wager that kind of money just to make a point. This situation marks the first time that I have seen the MFM say anything negative about Romney or his performance. What is going on?

ABC is going out of its way to play up Gingrich post debate. Also going out of their way to explain that Romney sucked. Criticized Bachmann for pandering to the Cain demographic, too. I noticed that and was also annoyed by it. Holy cow, ABC is really playing up Gingrich as the guy to beat after this debate...like they were impressed with him or something. Turning point? I know that they get their marching orders from the WH so there must be a strategic shift going on at the Dingus HQ.


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Offline Libertas

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 09:56:40 AM »
Wow, I didn't watch it, I had a college hockey game snare my attention, but such a thorough recap I felt like I was there and wrote the summary myself!  Well, at least until the end part there.  If I had to guess why American Butthead Co slammed Romney in the post-debate analysis is because they can't spend time 24/7 building up Romney.  Romney's warchest ensures he is not going anywhere, and I still think Team Stymie still views Romney as the easiest candidate to slaughter in the general election.  Plus, there may be some thinking in their mind that gNewt does have trust issues with conservatives (who also with Tea Party people made up the base of Cain supporters   ;)  ) so I think Team Stymie is covering their bets.  I think they view gNewt with his baggage, propensity to self-destruct and conservative issue being a viable fall-back opponent to prop up.  I think Team Stymie would love to see Bachmann and Perry disappear next.

Glad I didn't have to suffer through the idiocy of watching Sawyer grasp for oxygen or Streptococcus grasp himself.

Thanks Trap!

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charlesoakwood

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 12:30:06 PM »

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,4159.msg46440.html#msg46440

Debate 12/10/11 - Clip
 [blockquote]
"The idea this president now, with Iran getting one of our predator drones in their possession, and he had opportunities -- he had two choices. Actually, he had three. He chose the worse. And those two opportunities he had was to either retrieve that drone or to destroy it. And he did the worst of the three. And he did absolutely nothing. And the Russians and the Chinese will have our highly technical equipment now. This president is the problem,[not something Newt Gingrich said.*]" Perry said at the ABC News debate in Des Moines, Iowa.[/blockquote]  

*[about their being no real historical Palistine and the word not in common usage until 1972]


Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 01:20:31 PM »
I thought I heard just a day or two ago that the WH thinks they can beat Newt so perhaps the media wishes to make him the GOP candidate.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 09:44:00 PM »

Thank you for voting!

Newt Gingrich             62.45%  (1,437 votes)
Ron Paul                     13.04%  (300 votes) 
Rick Perry                     8.3%  (191 votes)
Michele Bachmann        6.61%  (152 votes)
Rick Santorum              5.13%  (118 votes)   
Mitt Romney                 4.48%  (103 votes) 
 
   
Total Votes: 2,301
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 12:20:35 AM »
I have been reading a few of the debate recaps and they pretty much mirror my own.

For all of Romney's wealth he is apparently not able to buy a clue. And probably not a primary, either. They say he is still the favorite in New Hampshire but I just don't see him winning. I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that he doesn't finish better than third.

What this probably means, though, is that the insane Ron Paul might finish second. There's a pretty good chance that he will finish second in Iowa. Ugh. If there's one thing Ron Paul and his army of reality challenged sycophants do not need it's encouragement. They need to be institutionalized.

I would really like to see Santorum finish strong in Iowa and New Hampshire. A fourth place finish might be good enough to keep him in it for a while. Anything less, though, and I think he's finished.

I could say the same thing for Perry. If he doesn't finish fourth or better in Iowa and/or New Hampshire then I'm not sure how he goes on. He's been spending a lot in Iowa and he has been pandering in a rather obvious way to the social conservatives. But Santorum, I think, is the natural choice for SoCons so I'm not sure that Perry will get much traction there.

Bachmann kicked ass in the Iowa straw poll and it's her home state but I don't think either of those points works in her favor given the way things have played out. I think that this campaign has been good for her...if she ever runs again I think she will do much better.

Funny how things work out.
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Offline Delnorin

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 02:49:41 AM »
Bummer I hadn't heard about the debate and I missed it.  I go through spurts of being highly informed and totally off the grid it seems.

Anything 'not' on FoxNews though and there's a great chance I'll never hear about it until it's over.

Your recap was fantastic though.  It saved me a great deal of time and I've seen enough of the candidates that I can almost write the transcript from your recap. :)

I'm still putting Bachman up on my list as #1 Conservative.. followed by #2 Santorum.. in the order in which I'd be most comfortable putting my vote behind.

The Gardisil thing doesn't seem to bother me at all.  We seem to be able to completely ignore the fact that the other candidates have supported abortion, have pushed for programs to give illegal aliens as cheap of education as we possibly can.. and ignore the fact that they should be deported immediately, an utter douche-bags that can leave their dying wife in the hospital to run off with another woman.. etc.  The worst we can come up with on Bachman is that she repeated something that someone told her without fact-checking.  Oh dear... burn her!!  Seems lame to me.

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 07:39:09 AM »
Romney will not win a single Southern State. Newt, being from Georgia, gains an advantage there. People in the South know a crank when they see one, and Ron Paul would do better as a Geritol Spokesperson, not a President. I like Bachman, but a two term Congressman is not my first choice.
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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 09:17:22 AM »
Bummer I hadn't heard about the debate and I missed it.  I go through spurts of being highly informed and totally off the grid it seems.

Anything 'not' on FoxNews though and there's a great chance I'll never hear about it until it's over.

Your recap was fantastic though.  It saved me a great deal of time and I've seen enough of the candidates that I can almost write the transcript from your recap. :)

I'm still putting Bachman up on my list as #1 Conservative.. followed by #2 Santorum.. in the order in which I'd be most comfortable putting my vote behind.

The Gardisil thing doesn't seem to bother me at all.  We seem to be able to completely ignore the fact that the other candidates have supported abortion, have pushed for programs to give illegal aliens as cheap of education as we possibly can.. and ignore the fact that they should be deported immediately, an utter douche-bags that can leave their dying wife in the hospital to run off with another woman.. etc.  The worst we can come up with on Bachman is that she repeated something that someone told her without fact-checking.  Oh dear... burn her!!  Seems lame to me.


I don't have a problem with anything you've written except for what I've bolded.  I take it you're referring to Newt Gingrich?  If you are, that's a myth that's been debunked by his daughter, and, for the record, his "dying wife" -- now ex -- is still very much alive.
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Offline Delnorin

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 09:51:57 AM »
Bummer I hadn't heard about the debate and I missed it.  I go through spurts of being highly informed and totally off the grid it seems.

Anything 'not' on FoxNews though and there's a great chance I'll never hear about it until it's over.

Your recap was fantastic though.  It saved me a great deal of time and I've seen enough of the candidates that I can almost write the transcript from your recap. :)

I'm still putting Bachman up on my list as #1 Conservative.. followed by #2 Santorum.. in the order in which I'd be most comfortable putting my vote behind.

The Gardisil thing doesn't seem to bother me at all.  We seem to be able to completely ignore the fact that the other candidates have supported abortion, have pushed for programs to give illegal aliens as cheap of education as we possibly can.. and ignore the fact that they should be deported immediately, an utter douche-bags that can leave their dying wife in the hospital to run off with another woman.. etc.  The worst we can come up with on Bachman is that she repeated something that someone told her without fact-checking.  Oh dear... burn her!!  Seems lame to me.


I don't have a problem with anything you've written except for what I've bolded.  I take it you're referring to Newt Gingrich?  If you are, that's a myth that's been debunked by his daughter, and, for the record, his "dying wife" -- now ex -- is still very much alive.

Indeed, that part was about Newt... and I'm super thankful for your response.  Being a fact-checker (which I'm not).. but trying to be one on every little turd that floats down the information stream is exhausting.... I'm stoked that I was completely wrong on this one.

Thank you !

I love being wrong about someone/something that made me upset.. means I don't need to be upset about that any longer... super good day. :)

Thank you.

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 11:00:58 AM »
You're welcome, Del.  There's enough truth about Gingrich that is upsetting to me without having to give credence to the Left's lies.

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Offline trapeze

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 02:01:46 PM »
One more footnote on that Gingrich divorce...

IIRC, she was the one who demanded the divorce in that particular instance.

Small fact, but as long as we are getting things straight...
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 02:05:51 PM »
BTW: Romney vainly trying to do damage control by spinning his $10K bet this way...

Quote
It was the bet heard 'round the campaign trail, but former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney insists it was just a joke.

"This was an outrageous number to answer an outrageous charge from him," Romney told Fox News on Monday,

Responding to criticism that he is "out of touch" for offering a wager of $10,000 with fellow presidential candidate Rick Perry during Saturday night's debate, Romney said maybe he shouldn't be throwing down bets, but Perry's still wrong in his assertion that Romney supported a health insurance mandate.

Sure. Whatever you say, Mittens.

LINK

What you are seeing (and smelling) is what the entertainment industry refers to as "flop sweat."
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 02:27:34 PM »
Great analysis, Trap. I didn't watch it, obviously. I believe Rick gets the short end of the stick because he is conservative. I'm tired of all the conservative debates moderated by ultra leftists. Why I don't care to watch......That, and whoever emerges, I'm voting for.

Here's for a Bachmann/ Perry/ Santorum comeback.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 02:28:28 PM »
It was all just a big joke...

Of course I am talking about RomneyCare!

NOT LAUGHING, MITTENS!

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Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 04:44:00 PM »
Quote
I believe Rick gets the short end of the stick because he is conservative

Perry has problems because he has tramped on the short end of his stick.
Or the end of his short stick.
IDK

That and he's another nanny state Texas governor who's weak on illegals

charlesoakwood

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2011, 11:07:40 PM »

http://www.therightscoop.com/rush-warns-gop-not-to-pick-candidate-because-they-sound-smart/

"organization, money, ideas, ideology, that's the kind of stuff that triumphs"


Offline Damn_Lucky

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2011, 10:09:41 PM »
Another one tomorrow night in Sioux City, IA on FOX

December 15, 2011   9pm ET on Fox News
Location: Sioux City Convention Center in Sioux City, Iowa
Sponsor: Fox News and Republican Party of Iowa
Participants: TBD
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Republican Iowa Debate 12-10-2011
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2011, 06:55:31 AM »
Well, I have a previous engagement at the range...look forward to the analysis though.  ;)
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