Author Topic: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank  (Read 6459 times)

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Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 08:58:23 PM »
Trap, no more fraudlent than most of the field. And for the last 25 years at least.
What are Republican principles and who is upholding them?

charlesoakwood

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2011, 09:23:51 PM »
[blockquote]
Certainly I am not the only one who finds the whole Paul thing fraudulent. He is a libertarian. He has an "R" next to his name, not an "L." That's fraudulent. He shows up at the Republican debates and participates in the Republican primaries until he loses. If he retires from the field at that point then fine. If he goes third party at that point then his previous appearances have all been fraudulent. Does this bother anyone? It should.[/blockquote]

As AP says, it is their corruption that allows this. 
If one runs as a Republican stay a Republican or
fold.  Beck bringing it up plays the fool.


Online Pandora

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2011, 09:35:41 PM »
The Libertarians, Paul, has common cause with the Left today.
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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2011, 01:02:27 AM »
You're right Trap, Paul is a libertarian. But it is also true that a great deal of what defines libertarianism is constitutional principles - otherwise known as conservatism. We have a two party system, which means people outside the mainstream who seek an effective political voice will infiltrate one of two parties. The GOP is a logical home for libertarians who seek to work within the two-party system.

But that's just it: Two parties. If Paul goes 3rd party, he's a treasonous bastard that willingly hands the nation to Marxists on the altar of his libertarian principles. If he stays a Republican, and continues to work to bring libertarian values to the GOP, that's the way it's supposed to work.

So far, he's worked within the two party system to bring the GOP closer to the constitution. As repulsive as he may be to many as a presidential candidate, observation of his effect on the electorate seems obvious to me. Ron Paul has brought constitutional awareness to more people more quickly than anyone else in the modern political climate. He has made apolitical people into zealous (even if misguided) defenders of the constitution. That doesn't earn him the presidency, but IF he stays loyal to the party that brought him to the dance, then I say his influence has not been negative, and could end up in hindsight being extremely important to the survival of constitutional principles among a generation that was meant by the Left to abandon them altogether.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2011, 01:40:43 AM »
Newt Gingrich is NOT a Conservative [Episode 678] - He Loves FDR

Do we really expect that THIS will not drive people to a 3rd party candidacy should one arise?

We demanded our "Not-Romney". Well we've got him.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2011, 02:20:57 AM »
My own preferences notwithstanding , I've always considered Beck an irritating , iconoclastic gadfly and I wish he'd shut the hell up . Why FOX ever wasted air-time on him is beyond me .

Offline trapeze

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2011, 02:22:41 AM »
I would argue that there are other things than RP which have promoted constitutional conservatism...the tea party movement (of which RP was notably absent from) and Levin's book immediately come to mind.

I want smaller government but not at the price of a neutered military and a defenseless country. RP is going in that direction. I don't want the destruction of Israel. RP gives every indication that he would finish the job started by the Dingus. The growth of Islam in the world (especially in the middle east) is unacceptable. RP is okay with this.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2011, 05:38:34 AM »
I would argue that there are other things than RP which have promoted constitutional conservatism...the tea party movement (of which RP was notably absent from) and Levin's book immediately come to mind.

I want smaller government but not at the price of a neutered military and a defenseless country. RP is going in that direction. I don't want the destruction of Israel. RP gives every indication that he would finish the job started by the Dingus. The growth of Islam in the world (especially in the middle east) is unacceptable. RP is okay with this.

Believe me, I'm with you. His foreign policy demonstrates a naivete that is completely intolerable, and the worst part is, he's got people believing his is the "constitutional" position. I think he's got that part wrong.

But I do disagree somewhat with your point about Paul being absent from the Tea Party. He has vocally refused to become involved himself as a "leader", saying that it is a grassroots movement for citizens, not for politicians. He hasn't been a feature at rallies, but his Paulbots most certainly have. They are a foundational part of every large TP rally - the ones who faithfully show up, and carry signs. I'm sure there are local and regional differences, but my point is, they are involved in the Tea Party because Ron Paul awakened their constitutional awareness.

And even if the Tea Party movement is responsible for more people coming to understand their constitutional responsibilities, I was speaking of individuals. Paul as an individual has brought more people to constitutional awareness than any other individual in the modern political arena.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2011, 07:42:41 AM »
This just illustrates to me the weakness of the candidates in the Republican field.  And I qualify weakness not in the sense that the MFM would like to twist it into, I mean a real weakness, a lack of true star power and someone who would take the fight to the enemy and not compromise...but she decided to bow out of the race so this is what we're left with.

So...

People can tell me Bachmann is dead in the water, but I see her as the least likely of anybody in the remaining field to screw me over...when it comes time to cast my lot it will be with her, whoever ends up with the nomination may or may not get my vote.  Y'all know my thoughts on this, no need to belabor them.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Predator Don

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2011, 07:50:19 AM »
RP and his followers, if he decides to run 3rd party, will never consider themselves treasonous bastards. I doubt such a thought enters their collective minds. If anything, he will be considered upholding constitutional principles and garner more cult like adoration. So whatever value there is to RP, in regards to awakening people to constitutional principles, is far outweighed by his intolerable stances.....like foreign policy.

I'm not sure the paulbots won't think it's treasonous if he DOESN'T run 3rd party.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2011, 09:54:52 AM »
Here's the "good" news: none of this much matters certainly not as much as we'd all like to think it does. The fact of the matter is that even if this country started doing everything right from this moment forward we're still going to hit the iceberg. You just can't undo this mess -- there is going to be a lot of pain and austerity coming as Reality reacquaints itself with our depraved citizenry. The big question mark is what will happen as a result of that discomfort. It's the sort of thing that has in the past been a recipe for the rise of opportunistic tyrants.
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Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2011, 09:57:43 AM »
So many things.

Where to start?

First off, I am not a treasonous bastard if I vote 3rd party. An argument could be made that I am the one who is following the Constitution since I am holding to it’s principles.
There are others here, too.

I’ve stated  before that I would be voting that way if the probable nominees win.
I will  (98% sure) vote for Ron Paul in the primary. Not sure I would vote for him if he runs Libertarian. Not sure I wouldn’t.

Where is the law that says there can only be two parties?
Why aren’t we all Whigs?

I am not in the bag for Ron Paul. There are some things that really bother me about him.
But, there are some things that really bother me about Romney, Gingrich, Perry and Santorum.
More than bother me about Paul’s message

He is not the problem. Regardless of whether he runs 3rd or not.
The problem is that the Pubs have no principles and are really Democrat Lites.

Ron Paul would gut defense.

 It appears the Super Committee that our Republicans gave us will do that with automatic cuts.
This includes 60 of the 80 or so new Republican freshmen elected in 2010.

Ron Paul would destroy Israel by cutting foreign aid.

I’ve seen it said that we give 10 times as much to her enemies.
Netanyahu, himself, said Israel would be fine without our aid.

One thing for sure to me.
A Ron Paul presidency wouldn’t have gotten us involved in Libya and soon to be Syria.

Admittedly, he is fruity on a few things. Some of those things scare me some too.
There was a discussion here a couple weeks ago where several of us refused to accept blame if Obama were elected because of 3rd party voting.
We’re going to Hell in a hand basket, as it is. It makes no difference if we go over the cliff at 120 mph or 50 mph.
We’re still going over the cliff.

Congress just passed a law that suspends Habeus Corpus.
WITH FULL SUPPORT OF REPUBLICANS!!!   
Tea Party hero Alan West loves it

The Tea Party seems to be gravitating towards Newt. The Tea Party is dead.
And it committed suicide

The 2010 election was about cutting spending.
Where’s the cuts?

You and I are about to back a European bailout through the Fed.
Who is at least talking about the evils of the Fed?

States’ Rights. Perry gives a little lip service to it. But it is for real with Paul.

In the end, I wish it were Rand Paul that was running instead of Ron Paul.

Carter gave us Reagan. I think even with a strong 3rd party candidate. John Anderson.
Perot did give us Clinton. But I honestly believe he was better than Dole

There are no Reagans in this bunch




charlesoakwood

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2011, 10:28:39 AM »

Perot gave us Clinton instead of G.H.W. Bush.


Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2011, 10:39:39 AM »
Thanks for the correction, Charles.

Not sure that hurt us too bad.
For all that was wrong with Clinton, he was a pragmatist.
Not sure he was any worse than Daddy Bush

charlesoakwood

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2011, 10:51:45 AM »

Many more Christians would have lived considering
the "old man" wouldn't have waged war on them.


Offline Libertas

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2011, 11:58:13 AM »
This Beck/Paul/gNewt argument is all BS!

There is not a spits worth of difference bewteen gNewt's "realpolitik Wilsonian" progressivism and Romney's silver-spoon establishment pedigree!  It is why I said in the other thread these are choices 1a & 1b for Team Obama & the MFM for the general election slaughter.  I'd take stroke-out/amnesty Perry over Romney or gNewt!

If you go nuts over Beck saying he would consider voting for Paul in a 3rd party run over gNewt if gNewt is the GOP nominee and not go nuts over gNewt simply being the GOP nominee regardless of any 3rd party candidates...then why are we having primaries?

We should be promoting who we are for (somebody other than Romney, gNewt or Huntsman) not having kittens over who said what regarding something that hasn't happened yet!

The same people who say Paul is too goofy to be trusted as POTUS because of his social views, foreign policy & national defense positions are being criticised for not having faith that these failings can be overcome and that he is better than (fill in the blank)....but the same argument can be used against gNewt & Romney for their progressive impulses.  If we have to throw these three clowns in the same pot and pick one I would probably pick Paul too, but jeebus, we don't have to make that choice now!

 ::gaah::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2011, 11:59:37 AM »

Perot gave us Clinton instead of G.H.W. Bush.



He also gave us Clinton instead of Bob Dole. Perot ran in both '92 and '96.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2011, 12:04:07 PM »
I thought so, IDP but was too lazy to fact check and too old to remember things clearly.
I did read that John Anderson in 1980 got more votes as a third party candidate than any other 3rd.
Was Clinton appreciably worse than Dole?

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2011, 12:28:00 PM »

...I am not a treasonous bastard if I vote 3rd party. An argument could be made that I am the one who is following the Constitution since I am holding to it’s principles....


I need to make a clarification. I am the one who introduced the "treasonous bastard" label, and I don't want the intent of what I said misunderstood. I wasn't speaking of voters, I was speaking of one politician. And I was speaking not of treason to the country, but of potential betrayal of the Republican party by running as a Republican, being a libertarian in actuality, and then running a 3rd party general election candidacy when you don't get the nomination. Think Lisa Murkowski - that kind of "treason", not the kind punishable by death.

If a politician claims to be a member of a party even though their values are out of the mainstream, and they use that party's apparatus to gain momentum for a run, but don't get the nomination, and then instead of bowing out, they make a 3rd party run, that is a betrayal of trust in my opinion. A party cannot function for the most people possible if electoral rebuttal by voters results in a threat to run 3rd party.

2nd, I wasn't speaking of people whose conscience leads them to vote 3rd party. We all have a line that we will not cross to support a GOP we deem not worthy of support. That is a personal line, we draw it in different places, and I respect everyone's line.

I look at the field that we have now, and I am dismayed. I came into this thinking Ron Paul was the worst of the worst. I don't think that anymore. In spite of his obvious problems, he is the one candidate above all the others who unapologetically and unwaveringly adheres to a set of principles. I differ with a few of his principles in a huge way, but that doesn't change the fact that Ron Paul is and has always been Ron Paul, and he doesn't bend with the wind. Couple that with the fact that on almost all domestic issues, he rarely utters a word with which I find strong disagreement.

In a field led by Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney, backed up by the brain synapse-challenged Rick Perry, the truth-challenged Michele Bachmann, followed by Rick Santorum (who I personally like) and Jon Huntsman... I no longer see Ron Paul as the worst of that bunch. Not by a long shot.

All I know now is it looks like the two guys I trust and like the very least and who reek the most of establishment politics are in the lead. Would Ron Paul be a worse conservative's choice as president than Mitt Romney? Newt Gingrich? I don't see a strong case to be made. Romney and Gingrich are the worst of the worst in my opinion. Ron Paul comes somewhere after them.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2011, 12:40:37 PM »
Thank you for that, IDP.

Dismayed is a pretty accurate word to sum up my feelings,too.
If this is the best we have, we are in even more trouble than I thought.

There is no Reagan in this bunch.
I have a theory about history that I think I mentioned before.

I call it the Great man Theory.
In times of great crisis, a great leader will come forth.

There may be someone there who can rise to the office but I can't see it now