Topic: It's Official: Glenn Beck Jet Skis Over Shark Tank

[Glock32]

Libertas is right on the money with respect to the time argument. I hear it from Levin and others, that this is not going to be solved overnight and it requires a decades-long pushback just like it got here in the first place. I get that this is the "respectable" position, and I can further get why someone in Levin's position feels obligated to advance it, but notwithstanding my great respect for his intellectual firepower I don't buy that one. We have nothing like decades to fix this mess. We already have a situation where virtually 1 in 2 adults pays no net federal income tax. Combine that with the demographic sea change (which favors the Dems almost entirely), and how are we supposed to have a foundation from which to orchestrate a multi-generational pushback? It ain't happening. Even if we could elect the reincarnation of Reagan, just the sheer looming bulk of our already committed debts and entitlement obligations is enough to sink this ship.

I'll vote in 2012, I'll vote for whichever Republican wins the nomination with the probable exception of Romney, but I will consider it nothing more than due diligence.

[trapeze]

We all should do as our conscience dictates.

Choose wisely.

[AmericanPatriot]

To use another football analogy, we're using a prevent defense which usually prevents nothing.
And it's a bad strategy  because we're using it when we're behind with less than 2 minutes to go.

I wonder if many of the arguments we're discussing were made by the Whigs?

We're 11 months m/l from the election. Long road ahead and there are many turns.
As bad as he is, I would not be surprised to see Stymie re-elected. Whether or not there is a serious 3rd party candidate.

Events could help him. Nothing like a good old war to get the nationalistic spirit going. We tend to not want to change bus drivers when one is going on
All the signs are there for one hell of a brouhaha any time now

Demographics has been mentioned.

But, I think he has a secret weapon that will almost guarantee his victory.

Hillary.

Look for Biden and Hillary to swap places.
She brings back the base and appears more Centist.
She has the popularity.
She will do what Palin did for McCain

Hillary is ambitious enough that being the first woman veep would give her her place in history

[michelleo]

  I am hearing it will be my fault if Stymie gets re-elected because I refuse to cast a vote for Romney or gNewt. 

Your fault? You, personally?

No. But I will fault a center right candidate who does run third party. I fault Perot for giving us Clinton. Twice. The stakes are just higher this time.

I'm personally feeling rather helpless in all of this.  Any candidate that we need (someone willing to dismantle many of the power structures of government) is destroyed by the establishment.  Status quo is the best we can hope for.  Meanwhile we all see the train wreck that awaits us if we do nothing.

[Libertas]

 I am hearing it will be my fault if Stymie gets reelected because I refuse to cast a vote for Romney or gNewt.  

Your fault? You, personally?

No. But I will fault a center right candidate who does run third party. I fault Perot for giving us Clinton. Twice. The stakes are just higher this time.

This is where I get frustrated...I disagree that Perot in and of himself gave us Clinton, if G.H.W. Bush had not betrayed Reaganism and told the Dem's to stick tax hikes up their butts, I think he would have won easily over both Perot & Clinton.  So the problem was a flawed, establishment candidate.  Establishment candidate ought to be the key phrase people direct their full attention on!

"We all should do as our conscience dictates."

"Choose wisely."

I fully agree!  And my conscience will not allow me to accept the status quo or a Ruling Class/establishment candidate, period.  Ownership of any results after the fact are the sole responsibility of how people voted in the primaries.  I will go to my caucus, I will try to influence other voters as best I can, I will use the electoral process as long as the electoral process is functional...but I cannot guarantee people act as I do, think as I do, or vote as I do...I will do what I can, but I am planning for the worst, not because I wish for it, but because it is prudent to do so and the odds appear tilted that direction to me.

In this system people have the right to make totally stupid decisions, it has been demonstrated on more than one occasion and no doubt will be demonstrated again...

[Predator Don]

  I am hearing it will be my fault if Stymie gets re-elected because I refuse to cast a vote for Romney or gNewt. 

Your fault? You, personally?

No. But I will fault a center right candidate who does run third party. I fault Perot for giving us Clinton. Twice. The stakes are just higher this time.

I'm personally feeling rather helpless in all of this.  Any candidate that we need (someone willing to dismantle many of the power structures of government) is destroyed by the establishment.  Status quo is the best we can hope for.  Meanwhile we all see the train wreck that awaits us if we do nothing.

It is a helpless feeling. From what I'm reading, it won't matter who or how conservative a candidate needs to be, we cannot stem the tide, much less change its direction. So if your belief is it can't be reversed, then what does it matter if you don't, won't, can't vote for a Romney or newt? So what if a bachmann or perry makes strides in winning the nomination? What would it gain? Apparently nothing.

[Libertas]

I think Bachmann, Perry or even Paul would be more palatable to primary voters and offer just a fair a chance at winning in the general as gNewt or Romney (if not more) on product differentiation alone...and if we're going to stop-gap, makes sense to stop-gap with a more reliable candidate than Romney or gNewt...right?  So frustrated?  Yes.  Helpless?  Not yet.

[michelleo]

I think Bachmann, Perry or even Paul would be more palatable to primary voters and offer just a fair a chance at winning in the general as gNewt or Romney (if not more) on product differentiation alone...and if we're going to stop-gap, makes sense to stop-gap with a more reliable candidate than Romney or gNewt...right?  So frustrated?  Yes.  Helpless?  Not yet.

I think the reason Bachmann hasn't been able to get traction is because we like her too much, and don't want to subject her to the Palin treatment.  Women candidates don't work.  They will be MILFd by the establishment.

[Predator Don]

I think Bachmann, Perry or even Paul would be more palatable to primary voters and offer just a fair a chance at winning in the general as gNewt or Romney (if not more) on product differentiation alone...and if we're going to stop-gap, makes sense to stop-gap with a more reliable candidate than Romney or gNewt...right?  So frustrated?  Yes.  Helpless?  Not yet.

I don't disagree, but unless one of the 3 gain traction, it will be newt or Romney.......but as I sit here and watch Fox, Romney has a huge lead.

[AmericanPatriot]

Slightly off topic but I'll tie it in since I think I heard it on Beck

The argument for Romney is his supposed electability.
Don't know if it's true, but heard that he has run for office 19 times and won 5.
That's not even a great baseball batting average

[Libertas]

I think Bachmann, Perry or even Paul would be more palatable to primary voters and offer just a fair a chance at winning in the general as gNewt or Romney (if not more) on product differentiation alone...and if we're going to stop-gap, makes sense to stop-gap with a more reliable candidate than Romney or gNewt...right?  So frustrated?  Yes.  Helpless?  Not yet.

I don't disagree, but unless one of the 3 gain traction, it will be newt or Romney.......but as I sit here and watch Fox, Romney has a huge lead.

I've been warning for quite a while that Romney's huge warchest and the establishment/establishment pundits in his corner would be a big hurdle to overcome, but it still comes down to us...if enough people say "screw the establishment" and refuse to drink the kool aid, we can upset their anointing of either Romney or gNewt...

As this depends upon the intelligence (or lack thereof) of voters, I am not filled with an overabundance of confidence, but I'll try to disrupt the Ruling Class any way I can!

[Libertas]

Slightly off topic but I'll tie it in since I think I heard it on Beck

The argument for Romney is his supposed electability.
Don't know if it's true, but heard that he has run for office 19 times and won 5.
That's not even a great baseball batting average

Not sure of that either, other than MA Gov, not sure what he's run for...first time on radar was winter oympics several years back...

But if true, 5-19 is a pretty pedestrian .263 batting average...

Yup, sounds like "electability" for Ruling Class brains!

 

[AmericanPatriot]

Ran for Prez in 2008 and MA Senate against Teddy

[Delnorin]

 I am hearing it will be my fault if Stymie gets reelected because I refuse to cast a vote for Romney or gNewt.  

Your fault? You, personally?

No. But I will fault a center right candidate who does run third party. I fault Perot for giving us Clinton. Twice. The stakes are just higher this time.

This is where I get frustrated...I disagree that Perot in and of himself gave us Clinton, if G.H.W. Bush had not betrayed Reaganism and told the Dem's to stick tax hikes up their butts, I think he would have won easily over both Perot & Clinton.  So the problem was a flawed, establishment candidate.  Establishment candidate ought to be the key phrase people direct their full attention on!

"We all should do as our conscience dictates."

"Choose wisely."

I fully agree!  And my conscience will not allow me to accept the status quo or a Ruling Class/establishment candidate, period.  Ownership of any results after the fact are the sole responsibility of how people voted in the primaries.  I will go to my caucus, I will try to influence other voters as best I can, I will use the electoral process as long as the electoral process is functional...but I cannot guarantee people act as I do, think as I do, or vote as I do...I will do what I can, but I am planning for the worst, not because I wish for it, but because it is prudent to do so and the odds appear tilted that direction to me.

In this system people have the right to make totally stupid decisions, it has been demonstrated on more than one occasion and no doubt will be demonstrated again...

I think I'm in love with Liberatas.  Seriously.. would anyone reach down to the middle of my soul and express what I believe better than what he just did?

[Delnorin]

I think Bachmann, Perry or even Paul would be more palatable to primary voters and offer just a fair a chance at winning in the general as gNewt or Romney (if not more) on product differentiation alone...and if we're going to stop-gap, makes sense to stop-gap with a more reliable candidate than Romney or gNewt...right?  So frustrated?  Yes.  Helpless?  Not yet.

I think the reason Bachmann hasn't been able to get traction is because we like her too much, and don't want to subject her to the Palin treatment.  Women candidates don't work.  They will be MILFd by the establishment.

I would love love love to get Bachmann as a choice.  I'd vote for her in 1/8th of a second.

[Delnorin]

I've been warning for quite a while that Romney's huge warchest and the establishment/establishment pundits in his corner would be a big hurdle to overcome, but it still comes down to us...if enough people say "screw the establishment" and refuse to drink the kool aid, we can upset their anointing of either Romney or gNewt...As this depends upon the intelligence (or lack thereof) of voters, I am not filled with an overabundance of confidence, but I'll try to disrupt the Ruling Class any way I can!

WooHoo!  Now You're talking my language !

[Libertas]

 

[charlesoakwood]

Intellectually I would say that by electing a Republican president
and taking the senate we will be able to do some immediate damage
control.  Repealing ObamaCare, eliminating various bureaucracies,
and drill baby drill will relieve our great national burden and begin
our recovery.

However, Libertas opinion bolstered by his example are, historically,
frighteningly accurate.

 

[Predator Don]

If we can get a Bachman or Perry, I think objectives  repealing obamacare and drill can be accomplished.....Not sure with Romney of Newt......Or I'm not sure with Romney, as newt was quite effective pushing thru an agenda.

Most likely none of them would end the EPA, Dept of Education and Dept of Energy. We may need to wait for a Rubio.

[Pandora]

Rubio is ineligible.