Author Topic: Trap's Movie Thread  (Read 232439 times)

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RickZ

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #440 on: August 08, 2013, 08:08:55 AM »
I thought foot binding was outlawed?  I guess not in Hollyweird.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #441 on: August 16, 2013, 07:41:16 AM »
Wow, Reagan mischaracterized in a libiot Hollyweird movie?!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2013/08/15/reagan-biographer-blasts-butler-inaccurate

Alert the media, alert...the..umm...ahhh...

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Offline trapeze

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #442 on: August 18, 2013, 08:39:21 PM »
I have not been to the movie theater in months. How long? I'm not sure (without consulting posts on this thread) what the last movie was that I saw in a theater.

And who could blame me?

This has been the worst year for new movies, especially for alleged blockbuster movies, in years. I can't remember a year as bad as this for new releases. One awful film after another.

You know the drill...you wait for a big name film with a big name actor, or two, and it gets panned (big time) by the critics and you think, "Well, the critics always hate blockbuster action films like this," and hope and pray that they are wrong. Because, face it, they have been wrong many, many times in the past about action film classics. I remember that the critics thought "Die Hard" was a stupid piece of crap, for instance. But not this year. No, this year the critics have been pretty much dead on correct about H'wood's offerings because audiences have agreed. H'wood has paid a very heavy price for releasing crap with one megaflop after another dying a quick death at the boxoffice.

I guess that it couldn't last forever, though, and I also guess if I had to wait this long for a decent movie I'm pretty glad that it was this one.

There has been a lot of hype leading up to this one and it appears that it is going to be well deserved. Rotten Tomatoes is showing a critic rating of 93%. That's big. I know...who gives a damn what the critics say? Well, RTs is also indicating a 97% audience approval rating and when the audience and the critics align in that range it is usually cinematic magic.

So...I'm going to the movie theater just as soon as it shows up in my little corner of Podunk land. It may be another week or two but I am going to see this just as soon as it hits the theater here. You guys will almost certainly have an opportunity to see it before me. Some of you may have even seen it already. If you have or if you do...please hold off on any reviews that contain spoilers because I want to experience it without any foreknowledge of the plot other than what has already come out in the trailers.

Oh, yeah...what movie is this? It's this one. Enjoy.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #443 on: August 18, 2013, 10:59:34 PM »
I have not been to the movie theater in months. How long? I'm not sure (without consulting posts on this thread) what the last movie was that I saw in a theater.

And who could blame me?

This has been the worst year for new movies, especially for alleged blockbuster movies, in years. I can't remember a year as bad as this for new releases. One awful film after another.

You know the drill...you wait for a big name film with a big name actor, or two, and it gets panned (big time) by the critics and you think, "Well, the critics always hate blockbuster action films like this," and hope and pray that they are wrong. Because, face it, they have been wrong many, many times in the past about action film classics. I remember that the critics thought "Die Hard" was a stupid piece of crap, for instance. But not this year. No, this year the critics have been pretty much dead on correct about H'wood's offerings because audiences have agreed. H'wood has paid a very heavy price for releasing crap with one megaflop after another dying a quick death at the boxoffice.

I guess that it couldn't last forever, though, and I also guess if I had to wait this long for a decent movie I'm pretty glad that it was this one.

There has been a lot of hype leading up to this one and it appears that it is going to be well deserved. Rotten Tomatoes is showing a critic rating of 93%. That's big. I know...who gives a damn what the critics say? Well, RTs is also indicating a 97% audience approval rating and when the audience and the critics align in that range it is usually cinematic magic.

So...I'm going to the movie theater just as soon as it shows up in my little corner of Podunk land. It may be another week or two but I am going to see this just as soon as it hits the theater here. You guys will almost certainly have an opportunity to see it before me. Some of you may have even seen it already. If you have or if you do...please hold off on any reviews that contain spoilers because I want to experience it without any foreknowledge of the plot other than what has already come out in the trailers.

Oh, yeah...what movie is this? It's this one. Enjoy.



Dang.....thought it was gonna be kick ass 2.
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #444 on: August 18, 2013, 11:04:20 PM »

Dang.....thought it was gonna be kick ass 2.

me too, I was afraid I was going to have to go see it 'cuz trap liked it.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #445 on: August 18, 2013, 11:17:58 PM »
Well, we'll see, won't we? I am going to see it and I am going to write about it and if it is as good as the previous two movies...even if it only approaches the greatness of the previous two movies then it will be light years ahead of the crap that H'wood has put out this year.

So there's that.

But, I'm guessing that it's going to be pretty good.

And you don't have to see it. You could go and see Matt Damon's socialist/OWS fantasy epic "Elysium" instead. I won't see it but maybe someone should and then write about it.

And the word is that "Kick Ass 2" is okay (28%/77%) but not as good as the original. So I'm waiting to see it on PPV or something. Probably Jim Carrey's fault. Maybe if they had been able to work Kevin Costner into it (as a long winded and boring villain) it would have been better...I would pay to see Hit Girl work over Costner any day.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 11:22:00 PM by trapeze »
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #446 on: August 22, 2013, 08:59:20 AM »
Please. Someone make them stop.

Taxi Driver 2? Blade Runner 2,  Bill and Ted 3?

AGGGHH!
 
Looks like the cool kids have reached middle age and now just want to relive past glories- and its a pathetic for them as it for Bill-Bob the High School Quarterback superstar sitting there with is Bud Light and 50 lbs of beer belly.
So many wonderful stories from SF yet to be told - that couldn't be told well till there was CGI, and they leave them on the sleves and want to return to Bladerunner? Hey- you know, Philip K Dick actually wrote a bunch of stories- and so far I really haven't come across one I didn't find compelling. Maybe do one of those?  There is even one about a post collapse California (Dr. Bloodmoney) - I hear the doomsday stuff is popular right now for some reason.  How about Asimov (no not a movie you just give one of his story  titles to)  or Niven, Or Mcaffrey, or heck evena  Piers Anthony Xanth Novel. That would be fun.
But no. Everyone has got to look at their shoes.

Just more proof we are in a declining Civilization. No one wants to  do anything new, they just want to hide in the past.



« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 09:18:04 AM by Weisshaupt »

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #447 on: August 22, 2013, 09:11:05 AM »
I just heard the other day that some numbnuts plans on rebooting the "Blade" franchise - without Wesley Snipes.

Now, one can question the value or need for a reboot after three films. But Snipes just got out of prison for tax evasion. He's still in excellent physical condition. He's a martial arts master. He was iconic in the role. He looks cool as heck in the role. The Blade movies are "dark" superhero movies, which is apparently in vogue.

Why not just make a new Blade movie instead of the idiotic re-imagining? Throw Snipes a bone in the process?
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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #448 on: October 18, 2013, 10:32:33 AM »
Went to see "Gravity" last night, in 3D. I thought it was wonderful.

The story was simple; stark; surface. No deep meanings in this film. It's got two actors: Sandra Bullock and George Clooney. (Yes, I know I put money in Clooney's pocket).

The thing that makes this movie worth seeing it not its acting (good from Bullock, adequate boilerplate from Clooney). It's not the story (extremely linear and one-dimensional).

There are two things that make it worth seeing, now, in the theater, in 3D.

First, from moment 1, this film puts you so realistically in space, it is as if there is no disbelief to suspend. Emotionally, you're transported into the film more palpably than any film I've ever experienced. I cannot think of a film that evoked the feeling of sustained desperation and panic as viscerally as this one.

Second, this film simply could not have been made before now, thus, you are witnessing yet another HUGE leap in filmmaking technology. The graphics and 3D are just unbelievable in their believability.

Now, downsides.

Clooney is a smug bastard, but we all know that. Thankfully, his role in the film only makes us deal with his Clooneyishness in brief spurts.

While the visual physics in the film seem hyper realistic, the chain of events often stretches credulity. I know that clashes with my above statement re; no need for suspension of disbelief. But the realism comes from the visuals, and the emotion generated. The improbability of specific events occurring is a minute distraction, and I only found myself a handful of times saying "no way that could happen", even though the whole film is basically one big "no way that could happen."

If you want a full immersion cinematic experience, I'd see this one now, and see it in 3D.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #449 on: December 06, 2013, 12:08:05 PM »
I will be wanting to see this!

http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=215655

http://screenrant.com/turn-tv-show-trailer-amc/

 ::thumbsup::

Timely too.  We may need to replicate and update things for our time and our war to regain our independence and liberty.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #450 on: February 15, 2014, 12:39:23 AM »
Well...it has been a while since I posted on a movie.

I meant to see "World's End" as I said in an earlier post but, living in the middle of nowhere, it never came to a nearby theater. Not even to one of the theaters which are an hour or more away. Darn. It's been on pay-per-view (very briefly) by now but I haven't bothered to see it that way.

Oh, well. Perhaps I will see it on Starz, Encore or one of those other "premium" channels that I have on DirecTV. Or I will get it on Netflix or something.

But I did see another movie on pay-per-view recently and I thought that I might offer up an opinion. So, what did I see? "Ender's Game."

And believe me, I was ready to be disappointed in yet another horrid adaptation of a very good book. I read the book many years ago...probably the year after it came out because my copy is in paperback rather than hardcover. And I have a LOT of scifi in hardcover.

There is a very short list of good adaptations of books to film with an even shorter list of good adaptations of scifi books to film. "2001: A Space Odyssey" was a pretty good adaptation of Arthur C. Clarke's short story, "The Sentinel." Not scifi but Peter Jackson did a pretty damned good job with "The Lord Of The Rings" trilogy.  There are probably a few more which are noteworthy but it's a lot easier to name all of the horribly botched ones.

So, imagine my pleasant surprise when "Ender's Game" didn't suck. It was (mostly) faithful to the source material due probably in no small part to the author being one of the exec producers on staff. Not that that is any guarantee of a good picture...remember the ridiculous interpretation of "Dune?" I always wondered if Frank Herbert died early due to that film. No, "Ender's Game" was more than just faithful to the book, it was a pretty good movie. Good script, good pacing, good acting, all that stuff. The only place where the movie seriously deviated from the book was the necessary condensing of the part where Ender keeps winning games and changing his strategies to keep his enemies from anticipating his next move.

Will I see this movie again? Maybe. Probably not but maybe. Which is not a criticism. It has more to do with my familiarity with the source material. I am pretty sure that I have read the book at least twice, maybe three times. So, the movie, being a pretty faithful interpretation, was not something new to me. But it was an enjoyable experience seeing the film because it was well done and the source material is among the best that scifi has to offer. I would recommend it to anyone.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #451 on: February 15, 2014, 09:35:52 AM »

So, imagine my pleasant surprise when "Ender's Game" didn't suck.

Actually I would go so far as to say it was well done. Not hit it out of the park well done, but at least a A- effort.  A lot of that was time, and they cut the entire sibling sub plot.. and even then my wife who had not read it had a bit of a time following because she wasn't familiar with the story.  The re-watch or not for me is more about intensity.  Like Watchman, there is only so much I can stand in a short time, and its an intense story and really doesn't end on feel good terms.

As for Dune.. there is no way to make that Movie in less than 6 hours.  Its was doomed from the start because they did not have the time to tell it properly.  I did love the look and feel of the world they created, but its just not possible to cut that story down. .  I fear its the same with Winter's Tale.  I read that book while going to school in New York and I loved it - but the previews I have seen suggest they have turned it into something its not..a valentines love story. Yes those elements are in there,  but its also about architecture, steam, progress and utopian dreams. Its 600 Pages of dense prose, that leaves you with strong visuals as much as LoTR does.   I want to see what they did with it, but then I don't, because I just know they cut anything that wasn't love story.



Offline Libertas

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #452 on: February 16, 2014, 09:53:46 AM »

So, imagine my pleasant surprise when "Ender's Game" didn't suck.

Actually I would go so far as to say it was well done. Not hit it out of the park well done, but at least a A- effort.  A lot of that was time, and they cut the entire sibling sub plot.. and even then my wife who had not read it had a bit of a time following because she wasn't familiar with the story.  The re-watch or not for me is more about intensity.  Like Watchman, there is only so much I can stand in a short time, and its an intense story and really doesn't end on feel good terms.

As for Dune.. there is no way to make that Movie in less than 6 hours.  Its was doomed from the start because they did not have the time to tell it properly.  I did love the look and feel of the world they created, but its just not possible to cut that story down. .  I fear its the same with Winter's Tale.  I read that book while going to school in New York and I loved it - but the previews I have seen suggest they have turned it into something its not..a valentines love story. Yes those elements are in there,  but its also about architecture, steam, progress and utopian dreams. Its 600 Pages of dense prose, that leaves you with strong visuals as much as LoTR does.   I want to see what they did with it, but then I don't, because I just know they cut anything that wasn't love story.

Do I need to announce a spoilers alert?  OK, I will anyway.  I ordered Enders Game off PPV a couple nights ago, and not reading the book I had no idea what it was about other than the trailers that basically described gamer kids of the future saving mankind from extinction before an aggressive alien species.  Sure, OK, that genre is nothing new, let's see what their spin on it is.  Watching the movie I thought it was interesting enough, well put together...the gravelly cantankerous Ford character was perhaps a bit tiresome but I was buying it.  Then the ending.  It is what it is, but I was like what's the big deal, threat removed, all is well, right?  Would I have did what he did and found a home for the former enemy?  Probably not.  It kinda felt like the typical liberal Hollywood meme that war is bad, even if for survival, so lets feel guilty and save the poor aliens from outright extinction.  Kinda left me feeling "Jeez, WTF was that?"!

Anyway.

As for Dune, the first attempt tried to compress too much into too little and had to add elements not originally there to make a story work.  It is a mixed bag with mixed results.  The SciFi channel production of the first three books was better and much closer to the books, but that whole literary series is so deep, unique and epic that anybody would struggle with it in a cinematic format.
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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #453 on: February 18, 2014, 11:21:24 AM »
I watched "Mr. Holland's Opus" again last night for the umpteenth time. That movie gets me every time. Beautiful story, beautiful message, and a superb job by Richard Dreyfus.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #454 on: February 18, 2014, 11:30:12 AM »
Richard...oh, the guy who survived sharks and aliens.
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Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #455 on: February 18, 2014, 12:11:58 PM »
I watched "Mr. Holland's Opus" again last night for the umpteenth time. That movie gets me every time. Beautiful story, beautiful message, and a superb job by Richard Dreyfus.

I saw Mr. Opel's Anus one time. Thats it for me.
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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #456 on: February 18, 2014, 01:17:02 PM »
I watched "Mr. Holland's Opus" again last night for the umpteenth time. That movie gets me every time. Beautiful story, beautiful message, and a superb job by Richard Dreyfus.

I enjoy it as well, IDP, every time.  Getting older myself and watching some things pass away -- it allows a new understanding of how times and people change.

I get a kick also, every time, of this part, starting at 2:02 minutes ......

Mr. Holland's Opus - Lou Finds the Beat

..... I could feel Holland's frustration when he snatched the drumsticks away; used the kid's shoelaces to keep his foot moving in time to the beat; drummed on the helmet on the kid's head in time to the beat ........  It points to stereotypes and generalizations as they apply to groups, not all individuals, and realizing that is sometimes an amusing thing.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #457 on: February 18, 2014, 02:40:33 PM »
Then the ending.  It is what it is, but I was like what's the big deal, threat removed, all is well, right?  Would I have did what he did and found a home for the former enemy?  Probably not.  It kinda felt like the typical liberal Hollywood meme that war is bad, even if for survival, so lets feel guilty and save the poor aliens from outright extinction.  Kinda left me feeling "Jeez, WTF was that?"!

Well the twist is that Ender didn't know he was actually acting to  exterminate another alien species, and perhaps the movie didn't bring this across well enough, but the whole point of choosing Ender was because he had that Killer instinct-- that the proper way to win a war is to act to end it form the beginning. "lefty" wars of aggression are fought "humanely" to protect a status Quo - don't cross this line, don't engage in this activity.  Wars used to be fought such that you killed every male  over 18. That put an end to it.  No "lefty wars" go on forever..  So really Enders Game is pro  real-war, instead of "get along wars"  -- Orson Scott Card is an odd bird, and being raised LDS I think he has a lot of very conservative attitudes, but there is a bunch of liberal blended in-- (Old School Liberal - sort of like Jim Henson)....  much of his writing is very pro-morality and pro-family. He had the gays boycotting Enders game because he dared suggest that the Homosexuals shouldn't be using govt power to force people to accept them as it hinders the possibly of them ever being accepted.  The further books in the Ender's game series are very different and very much about different types of alien and the possibility of getting along ( with an EXPLICIT admission there will be creatures so alien  that co-existence is impossible)  The whole bent of his writing is  - Yes we need to try to  get along, but not at the cost of morality or civilization.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 03:48:27 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Libertas

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #458 on: February 19, 2014, 06:58:08 AM »
Then the ending.  It is what it is, but I was like what's the big deal, threat removed, all is well, right?  Would I have did what he did and found a home for the former enemy?  Probably not.  It kinda felt like the typical liberal Hollywood meme that war is bad, even if for survival, so lets feel guilty and save the poor aliens from outright extinction.  Kinda left me feeling "Jeez, WTF was that?"!

Well the twist is that Ender didn't know he was actually acting to  exterminate another alien species, and perhaps the movie didn't bring this across well enough, but the whole point of choosing Ender was because he had that Killer instinct-- that the proper way to win a war is to act to end it form the beginning. "lefty" wars of aggression are fought "humanely" to protect a status Quo - don't cross this line, don't engage in this activity.  Wars used to be fought such that you killed every male  over 18. That put an end to it.  No "lefty wars" go on forever..  So really Enders Game is pro  real-war, instead of "get along wars"  -- Orson Scott Card is an odd bird, and being raised LDS I think he has a lot of very conservative attitudes, but there is a bunch of liberal blended in-- (Old School Liberal - sort of like Jim Henson)....  much of his writing is very pro-morality and pro-family. He had the gays boycotting Enders game because he dared suggest that the Homosexuals shouldn't be using govt power to force people to accept them as it hinders the possibly of them ever being accepted.  The further books in the Ender's game series are very different and very much about different types of alien and the possibility of getting along ( with an EXPLICIT admission there will be creatures so alien  that co-existence is impossible)  The whole bent of his writing is  - Yes we need to try to  get along, but not at the cost of morality or civilization.

Oh it did, and I get it, but the action then is what, one of "screw you, I'll show you who the better man is by saving this species?"!  Seriously, if they posed a mortal threat once that required these lengths to eliminate, do you really think bringing them back is a good idea?  I just think that part left me dissatisfied.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Trap's Movie Thread
« Reply #459 on: February 19, 2014, 09:18:31 AM »

Oh it did, and I get it, but the action then is what, one of "screw you, I'll show you who the better man is by saving this species?"!  Seriously, if they posed a mortal threat once that required these lengths to eliminate, do you really think bringing them back is a good idea?  I just think that part left me dissatisfied.

Oh I see.  Michelle had the same issue.  Major Spoiler alert! Major plot points of the series revealed  ahead:

So it turns out Enders Game is really just a prologue to introduce the character of Ender, that ended up growing  into its own novel, so that is part of the reason this isn't explained well...     I think OSC was trying to point out how very very alien,  alien life forms might be and how that may very well lead to real problems in understanding one another.

In the book and subsequent books its revealed that  the initial  Hive Queen/Earth interaction was not an invasion.. and the Hive Queens were using the game he was playing to contact him.. not as an attack but as a cry for mercy.    A hive Queen basically shares the same soul as its 1000s of workers. The workers HAVE no soul and no intelligence without the queen ( which is why if you destroy the queens ship, the rest just fall out of the sky)  and they communicate using a "philotic" connection - basically a instantaneous faster than light  connection enabled by the spirit/ soul  ( in this universe, every bit of matter  has a "soul" - and that is the basis for quantum entanglement )  - and the queens talk with each other this way too.

The point being that the queen who invaded earth's system squashed a few humans as a way of letting the other queen know she was there. As a tap on the shoulder, because the queen couldn't sense  a "philotic" connection in the system she could talk to.  The idea of each human being a separate living sentient organism  was foreign to the queen, but by then the war was started.  The remaining queens informed by the invading queen via philotic connection of what happened, figured out that we were a swarm of tiny  sentient beings,  but none of them could contact a human to admit wrong doing and tell them that they had no intention of seeking another confrontation.  Eventually they formed a philotic connection with the computer Ender was playing  - and manipulated the game in an attempt to contact him, and in so doing eventually found his soul and started talking directly to it instead of via the conduit of the computer.  - but meaningful communication was NOT established before the human fleet arrived, and the Xenocide was committed. Also not really portrayed in the movie, was  that Enders final desperate move to destroy of his defending ships and use the MD on the planet was an act of rebellion and anger at his instructors. He was exhausted from being tested, frustrated by the seemingly impossible battle before him, and  he just chose the fastest route to ending the simulation- hoping to freak his instructors out, and not realizing he was committing 1000s of real live humans to death.  Likewise, in the movie he found the Hive Queen on the planet they commanded the battle from. In the book that was an Asteroid in our own system,  and Ender returned home victorious, and to find his Brother in charge and his presence as a rival unwelcome ( an entire, very interesting subplot of the book that was dropped, for understandable e reasons)  and so he sets of with his sister to colonize one of the Hive worlds-- and his Soul connection was used by the remaining infant hive queen to ensure he would come to her world, hundreds of cycles later earth time.. over which the bond becomes strong enough for meaningful communication and the Hive Queen can (finally) tell her side of the story - admit guilt, and beg/rely on the human who exterminated her race to find a new home for her - and Ender comes to know her over a long life and trust she will not seek revenge upon the human race.  ( they are a bit like Vulcans - doing so would not be logical)

  And you thought  it was a fun sci fi story about gamers in the future :)  Most of OSC's work is philosophical and he seems to delight in setting up real ethical conundrums and really hard choices for his characters..  I started Enders Game at 10pm at night and finished at 5:30 in the morning and shuffled off to work.  It is the only book I have ever read that I  literally could not put down.

Ultimately I think there is some truth to Ender's statement that to know an  enemy well enough to defeat him you must love them.  Its not a universal truth and yes Hollywood decided to come over heavy handed with it because I am sure  the lefties there think it is.  But sadly I know its not universal (more on that in a bit)  and so did OSC-- as Ender starts wandering the universe   his sister writes a description of http://ansible.wikia.com/wiki/Hierarchy_of_Foreignness]the Heirarchy of foreigness[/url]

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Utlanning are individuals who are of the same species as the subject, and are from a different region, city, or country. Culture is similar, communication between subject and Utlanning is generally easy.

Framlings are individuals who are recognized as being of the same species as the subject, but who are from another planet. Culture and manners between Framlings may be different, but they are still similiar.

A raman is an individual recognized as a sentient being who is of another species, but with whom communication is possible.

The varelse are true aliens: they are sentient beings, but are so foreign that no meaningful communication is possible with the subject. Only war with Varelse is justified.

 For this heirarchy to work, the being involved have to be MORAL beings- or at least moral enough to recognize the right of others to exist, and to make their own decisions, and live their own way. So there is an class of being in the Enderverse with which war is inevitable, and I would argue that "meaningful communication" requires recognition of  the simple moral principles inherent in the idea of  inalienable rights. .  And sadly that really is what we are facing with the Left. They do not recognize those principles., and cannot see a reason to do so... They are Varelse.

I  understand them - often far better than they understand themselves, but I feel no love for them - other than love perhaps expressed as pity. But even so I can't tell you what goes on their heads when they hear what I say.  But I do know   Meaningful communication with them is impossible. .. because they refuse or are incapable respecting the lives of others - especially if the focus, goals and values of that life differ from their idea of what they should be.  . .  The left will  literally NEVER respond to our arguments, or engage in any sort of good faith communication on the subject.  They do not keep promises, they have no standards but double standards regarding us, and  our mere presence elicits their hatred. 

Like  the hive queen, the idea that we are ( and want to be) independent from their community (hive)  is completely foreign to them.  Unlike the hive queen, they are unwilling to accept that in any capacity. . They are unwilling to live and let live, or to accommodate our foreign ways in their midst.  They refuse overtures to simply separate and live apart - and insist that we be assimilated or die.  After all, live and let live imposes our values on them-- our value of our own life as our and not owned by the collective. Maybe the left is capable of understanding and refuses to .. maybe they will only understand when we have beaten every one of their brains open with a rock. From our perspective it doesn't matter. They refuse to agree to any terms that recognize our right to live separate and out of the direct control of the hive, and  as such war is inevitable.