Author Topic: Religious Affiliation  (Read 2157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 64006
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Religious Affiliation
« on: January 13, 2012, 12:52:20 PM »
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10829
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 01:38:30 PM »
That's really cool. It puts the lie to the idea that America is not a Christian nation, and demonstrates just how small the atheist/minority-religion contingency really is. It is a small, radical minority that seeks to undermine Christianity.

...Now to bash religion... if that 75% of Americans who profess Christianity actually walked the walk, there would be no possible way that Christianity could be demonized and undermined by that radical fringe. People profess Christianity while refusing to defend it.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Weisshaupt

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5733
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 03:13:04 PM »
...Now to bash religion... if that 75% of Americans who profess Christianity actually walked the walk, there would be no possible way that Christianity could be demonized and undermined by that radical fringe. People profess Christianity while refusing to defend it.

That is because so many Churches have fallen for the "Social Justice" morality and teach it as if that is what Jesus taught. I have met many Democrats who claim to be Christian, but live their lives in moral relativist ambiguity, and just know that Jesus would have made the inn keeper take care of the Good Samaritans' wounded man for free, because the innkeeper has the ability.

Like the recent polls shows conservatives as the largest block- because so many liberals like to consider themselves "independant" and "moderate" rather than the radical fascist jerks they are. Likewise,  see liberals claiming to be Christian, because they like to beleive they are moral, not because they actually act according to the (original) teachings of the Christian church.


 

Offline Sectionhand

  • Conservative Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 2520
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 04:46:32 AM »
Our minister ( Methodist ) noted yesterday that about 80% of the people in this country who profess religious faith don't attend church on a regular basis . Interesting .

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 64006
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 07:26:14 AM »
Our minister ( Methodist ) noted yesterday that about 80% of the people in this country who profess religious faith don't attend church on a regular basis . Interesting .

And what percentange of those not attending are doing so because their church has succumbed to apostasy and what percentage are not attending becuase they just were not that spiritual to begin with and were perhaps dragged into it by a spouse for example?  Plus, there are people like my family who, when you have lake or other property, you spend every spring, summer & fall weekend out of town?  It would be nice to see a better breakdown of that 80%.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Sectionhand

  • Conservative Hero
  • ****
  • Posts: 2520
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 07:33:08 AM »
Our minister ( Methodist ) noted yesterday that about 80% of the people in this country who profess religious faith don't attend church on a regular basis . Interesting .

And what percentange of those not attending are doing so because their church has succumbed to apostasy and what percentage are not attending becuase they just were not that spiritual to begin with and were perhaps dragged into it by a spouse for example?  Plus, there are people like my family who, when you have lake or other property, you spend every spring, summer & fall weekend out of town?  It would be nice to see a better breakdown of that 80%.

It's probably all over the board .

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 64006
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 07:47:59 AM »
Our minister ( Methodist ) noted yesterday that about 80% of the people in this country who profess religious faith don't attend church on a regular basis . Interesting .

And what percentange of those not attending are doing so because their church has succumbed to apostasy and what percentage are not attending becuase they just were not that spiritual to begin with and were perhaps dragged into it by a spouse for example?  Plus, there are people like my family who, when you have lake or other property, you spend every spring, summer & fall weekend out of town?  It would be nice to see a better breakdown of that 80%.

It's probably all over the board .

No doubt.  And as long as collections roll in...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline LadyVirginia

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5168
  • Mt. Vernon painting by Francis Jukes
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 12:16:53 PM »

No doubt.  And as long as collections roll in...

But are they?

I hear about more and more churches that are hurting.  It's been portrayed as due to the economy but I've seen it for years and I think it's because the churches often don't stand for anything any more except as a social outlet competing with all the other social outlets people can affiliate with today.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

charlesoakwood

  • Guest
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 12:48:48 PM »
"Mainline" churches are suffering, as you said, because "often don't stand for anything",
this is evidenced by the proportional rise in affiliation with the evangelical movement.

The criteria "black protestant" is curious, especially at 15%.  The other 85% are black
what, black unaffiliated?  What's black got to do with it?

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 05:33:13 PM »
Our minister ( Methodist ) noted yesterday that about 80% of the people in this country who profess religious faith don't attend church on a regular basis . Interesting .

And what percentange of those not attending are doing so because their church has succumbed to apostasy and what percentage are not attending becuase they just were not that spiritual to begin with and were perhaps dragged into it by a spouse for example?  Plus, there are people like my family who, when you have lake or other property, you spend every spring, summer & fall weekend out of town?  It would be nice to see a better breakdown of that 80%.

That'd be me.

The priest does not belong facing the congregation; his proper place is leading us all in prayer, facing The One to Whom we pray.

I'll kneel, I'll pray out loud; I don't hug strangers in Church, I don't sing and I don't want to hear hippy-dippy guitar music there either.  And I don't appreciate not being allowed in the Church for Midnight Mass -- too "crowded" -- having to stand in the hallway instead, and see the basket passed around anyway.

And I'm not sitting in the pews of the Catholic Church with pro-abortion people -- it. ain't. happening.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 64006
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2012, 07:21:46 AM »

No doubt.  And as long as collections roll in...

But are they?

I hear about more and more churches that are hurting.  It's been portrayed as due to the economy but I've seen it for years and I think it's because the churches often don't stand for anything any more except as a social outlet competing with all the other social outlets people can affiliate with today.

That's usually when they hit up a fatcat patron and proclaim "all is well, all is well"!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 64006
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2012, 07:28:42 AM »
Our minister ( Methodist ) noted yesterday that about 80% of the people in this country who profess religious faith don't attend church on a regular basis . Interesting .

And what percentange of those not attending are doing so because their church has succumbed to apostasy and what percentage are not attending becuase they just were not that spiritual to begin with and were perhaps dragged into it by a spouse for example?  Plus, there are people like my family who, when you have lake or other property, you spend every spring, summer & fall weekend out of town?  It would be nice to see a better breakdown of that 80%.

That'd be me.

The priest does not belong facing the congregation; his proper place is leading us all in prayer, facing The One to Whom we pray.

I'll kneel, I'll pray out loud; I don't hug strangers in Church, I don't sing and I don't want to hear hippy-dippy guitar music there either.  And I don't appreciate not being allowed in the Church for Midnight Mass -- too "crowded" -- having to stand in the hallway instead, and see the basket passed around anyway.

And I'm not sitting in the pews of the Catholic Church with pro-abortion people -- it. ain't. happening.

I hear ya.  My family migrated twice, leaving corrupted churches behind.  Ritual for rituals sake, bending this way or that to please this or that group, soft-peddle this, ignore that...it gets so tiresome.  There was an original message once, given in informal settings, simple, basic...and it worked!  Institutional religion like any large organization is more easily corrupted when bureaucracies begin to exert influence they should never had been allowed to have.  And church elders and leaders should not concern themselves with politics, populism or pandering!  Back to basics!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline LadyVirginia

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5168
  • Mt. Vernon painting by Francis Jukes
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2012, 12:12:25 PM »

No doubt.  And as long as collections roll in...

But are they?

I hear about more and more churches that are hurting.  It's been portrayed as due to the economy but I've seen it for years and I think it's because the churches often don't stand for anything any more except as a social outlet competing with all the other social outlets people can affiliate with today.

That's usually when they hit up a fatcat patron and proclaim "all is well, all is well"!

Ah, yeah, that sort of happened in our church this past fall during a sermon.  My husband got in the car afterwards fuming.  The pastor in his sermon told everyone they had to give more.  It's not an issue for us--we could increase our amount.  He was mad because he'd looked at the financial report and concluded they needed to --SURPRISE! --spend less and he thought it was terrible to ask the little old ladies to give more (we have a predominately old congregation).  He looked and me and said "they don't get another penny from us."

I know the pastor will ultimately go to the handful of wealthy members and get the money from them.  It's hard to resist not being part of the favored few.

Unfortunately, our church is experiencing what seems to be happening nationally--a fairly new pastor who "knows" everything, apathetic people and declining finances.

Over the years I put a lot of time in at church, my kids were baptized there, made many friends, etc.  It breaks my heart to think we might have to move to another one.  If we do we'll probably go to the one we were married in.  They have a pretty conservative pastor and active members.  But we'd be starting at zero and leaving 20+ years of investment in our church. 

Believe or not, I've actually had people whisper to me that I need to do something about the situation.  The problem, as I've explained it to them, is that while I might have the will to proceed I can't do it without support.  And right now I'm not feeling it.  They want someone else to do it.  I don't think it's worth sticking out my neck when I can go to another church. 
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10829
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2012, 12:40:38 PM »
We were very involved with our church. It was the body that welcomed us as we reasoned through the process of becoming Christians, and we were very attached, integrated, and assimilated.

But after several years, and watching the politics, back-biting, gossip, and religiosity (in the negative sense), we had enough. The first shoe to drop was the shunning of a couple because there was a dispute between the wife and the pastor's wife. The shameless way that the church leadership just assumed the righteousness of the pastor's wife was extremely transparent.

The second shoe to drop was when they began each service by breaking the congregation into small prayer groups within the sanctuary, to huddle together to pray for prosperity, so that people could give more to the church. The idea was that within these small groups, people would feel accountable for their "tithe", since it was specifically being prayed about by the group.

One Sunday was bad enough, but they decided to make it a weekly feature. That, coupled with the outright betrayal of the aforementioned couple, and that was enough for us. The church body to whom we entrusted the nurturing of our newfound faith became something very negative.

And all this, in an environment where we were told repeatedly that the congregation was a "family". When the offenses became so great, it was easy to juxtapose our notion of family with the caricature of it being sold to that congregation. You don't treat family like they treated people who were no longer members of the church.

We've re-entered a new church. But we chose a mega-church, where we can be invisible to the degree we choose - which for now, is "entirely". Never again will we fully trust a church, pastor, or congregation to the degree we did before. That church served its function - it helped bring us to know Christ. But it left a bitter taste and distrust in its wake. The further in time we get from those days, the more we think that there were many aspects of that church that were very cult-like. We're unsure if they became that way over time, or if it was that way all along.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 64006
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 07:15:14 AM »
Here these kind of stories a lot over the years, too bad too.  I think people are wise enough to retain faith in God even if they lose faith in their church or their leaders.  The latter is transitory, the former is eternal.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline LadyVirginia

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5168
  • Mt. Vernon painting by Francis Jukes
Re: Religious Affiliation
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2012, 10:39:35 PM »
Here these kind of stories a lot over the years, too bad too.  I think people are wise enough to retain faith in God even if they lose faith in their church or their leaders.  The latter is transitory, the former is eternal.

 ::thumbsup::
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."