Author Topic: Looking further at Ron Paul  (Read 2152 times)

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Online Pandora

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2012, 02:45:19 PM »
Amen!
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2012, 03:40:23 PM »
A certain number will stay "loyal" to the military establishment simply to keep their families fed and housed by it.

THIS.

Now, I was utilizing a play on words to be dramatic, but don't you think the army will be the first ones (after Congress) to get paid? Also, remember the WWI Veterans who marched on Washington to drum up support for their bonus they were promised? These were U.S. Army veterans and their little Occupy DC was crushed by none other than Army Chief of Staff Douglas MacArthur. One veteran was killed in a confrontation.

My point is: History tells a sad tale of what the politicians are capable of doing with the military against their own.

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm
The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living
are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2012, 05:10:05 PM »
A certain number will stay "loyal" to the military establishment simply to keep their families fed and housed by it.
Now, I was utilizing a play on words to be dramatic, but don't you think the army will be the first ones (after Congress) to get paid?

It depends by what you mean by "paid" - The scenario we are looking at is the complete destruction of the good faith and credit of the United States. Because the good faith and credit of the UNited States is the ONLY thing backing our currency, that means the end of that currency.  Like Europe,  the United States CANNOT MAKE GOOD ON ITS DEBTS. Like Europe, a partial default is now inevitable and inescapable. The US has no long term options other than austerity and outright default by giving our debtors a haircut, or default via money printing. Thats it.

Under Austerity & haircut interest rates MUST rise, causing further economic slowdown and reduced tax revenues, and   only a small force of can be kept. Sure that force is paid first, but it utility for population domination is severely reduced. 

If the money is printed,  hyper inflation will eventually result. The soldiers are "paid"  in money worth more as toilet paper.  Even finding food and supplies for them will be near impossible unless those supplies are taken by force from the American people and useless bits of paper are crammed into their hands at gun point. Such confiscation will be unconstitutional and illegal and hence the questionof how many soldiers obey the orders to do it.

In WWI we were still on the gold standard. The value of our money was never in question.  Now there may be no gold at all in Ft Knox, and what is there may well be owned by others. Even if its all there and made available , each oz would be worth over $50K if dollars were made exchangeable for it given the CURRENT money supply.

Much of our troubles creating and keeping an Army during the revolutionary war were due to the lack of funds with which to pay them.

 



Online Pandora

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2012, 05:40:30 PM »
A certain number will stay "loyal" to the military establishment simply to keep their families fed and housed by it.

THIS.

Now, I was utilizing a play on words to be dramatic, but don't you think the army will be the first ones (after Congress) to get paid? Also, remember the WWI Veterans who marched on Washington to drum up support for their bonus they were promised? These were U.S. Army veterans and their little Occupy DC was crushed by none other than Army Chief of Staff Douglas MacArthur. One veteran was killed in a confrontation.

My point is: History tells a sad tale of what the politicians are capable of doing with the military against their own.

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm

To further clarify, if the US succeeds in making paper money worthless (see Weisshaupt's post), the "pay" to army members who stay "loyal" will not be script, it will be food and housing ... and medical care ... for themselves and their families, probably on military bases.

I don't know how much food the US government has socked away -- it made a bulk-run on the dried-foods purveyors last fall -- but the military willing to perform as ordered will be fed.  I'm not discounting the probability, either, that citizens' stores will be confiscated.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2012, 07:43:34 PM »
There is a prohibition explicity stated in the constitution against quartering troops -

Amendment 3
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the
consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by
law.

Not that these anti-constitutionalists running the show have a problem shredding another of our explicit Bill of Rights!  But they will find widespread hostility in trying to act on their tyranny!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2012, 09:59:42 PM »

What kind of anti-American are you not wanting to give
some of our service men and women lodging? 

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2012, 10:09:38 PM »

What kind of anti-American are you not wanting to give
some of our service men and women lodging? 


I'd give 'em lodging and food as long as they're fighting against the government and not against me.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2012, 10:15:25 PM »

What kind of anti-American are you not wanting to give
some of our service men and women lodging? 


I'd give 'em lodging and food as long as they're fighting against the government and not against me.


     ::thumbsup::


Online Pandora

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2012, 10:18:28 PM »

What kind of anti-American are you not wanting to give
some of our service men and women lodging? 


I'd give 'em lodging and food as long as they're fighting against the government and not against me.

I'd give what I'd decided to, and if they asked.  Demands will be met with gunfire.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2012, 07:11:35 AM »

What kind of anti-American are you not wanting to give
some of our service men and women lodging? 


I'd give 'em lodging and food as long as they're fighting against the government and not against me.

Yup.  Question is simple - "Who's side are you on?  The side of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the people like me who took an oath to preserve and protect it from enemies foreign AND domestic?  Or the tyrants trying to use the Armed Forces for their own political means, making soldiers choose between obeying the CiC's unlawful/unconstitutional orders against liberty loving citizens and these citizen partriots opposing this tyranny?"

No equivocations allowed, clearly stated replies only, failure to answer or to answer properly will be judged quickly and harshly.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2012, 10:09:42 AM »
I am particularly interested in POV of vets here who may opine regarding the Bonus March I posted about and the use of the military to crush their protest. (I now, I know. They were told to pack up and go home just like OWS . . .)

Remember: These men were desperate veterans of WWI looking for some promised cash during the Depression.
The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living
are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend; the friend of my enemy is, well, he is just a dumbass.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Looking further at Ron Paul
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2012, 11:28:22 AM »
I am particularly interested in POV of vets here who may opine regarding the Bonus March I posted about and the use of the military to crush their protest. (I now, I know. They were told to pack up and go home just like OWS . . .)

Remember: These men were desperate veterans of WWI looking for some promised cash during the Depression.

Using a current group of soldiers to crush a group of vet's is as low as it gets.

So, to your point, what was done once, against their "own" could happen to any of us.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.