Author Topic: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....  (Read 3778 times)

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Online Pandora

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Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« on: February 11, 2012, 12:05:21 PM »
Facebook Parenting: For the troubled teen.

H/T RTLM

Some of the comments ...   ::whatgives::  .  I say "kudos, Dad".
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online Pandora

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2012, 12:36:19 PM »
Mr. Jordan's response to the media ....

"Media Response to Anita Li, from the Toronto Star

Since you took the time to email us with your requests like we asked, I’ll take the time to give you an honest follow-up response. You’ll have to forgive me for doing so publicly though; again I want to be sure my words are portrayed the way I actually say them, not cut together to make entirely different points.

Your questions were: Q: Why did you decide to reprimand your daughter over a public medium like YouTube?

A: Well, I actually just had to load the video file itself on YouTube because it’s a better upload process than Facebook, but the intended audience was her Facebook friends and the parents of those friends who saw her post and would naturally assume we let our children get away with something like that. So, to answer “Why did you reprimand her over a public medium like Facebook” my answer is this: Because that’s how I was raised. If I did something embarrassing to my parents in public (such as a grocery store) I got my tail tore up right there in front of God and everyone, right there in the store. I put the reprisal in exactly the same medium she did, in the exact same manner. Her post went out to about 452 people. Mine went out to about 550 people… originally. I had no idea it would become what it did.

Q: How effective do you think your punishment was (i.e. shooting her laptop and reading her letter online)?

A: I think it was very effective on one front. She apparently didn’t remember being talked to about previous incidents, nor did she seem to remember the effects of having it taken away, nor did the eventual long-term grounding seem to get through to her. I think she thought “Well, I’ll just wait it out and I’ll get it back eventually.” Her behavior corrected for a short time, and then it went back to what it was before and worse. This time, she won’t ever forget and it’ll be a long time before she has an opportunity to post on Facebook again. I feel pretty certain that every day from then to now, whenever one of her friends mentions Facebook, she’ll remember it and wish she hadn’t done what she did.

The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don’t give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it’s like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you’re young. Most of the things she has that are “cool” were bought or gifted that way. She’s always asked for very few things, but they’re always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them. That’s not learning the value of a dollar. Its knowing how to save money, which I greatly applaud in her, but it’s not enough. She wants a digital SLR camera. She wants a 22 rifle like mine. She wants a car. She wants a smart phone with a data package and unlimited texting. (I have to hear about that one every week!)

She thinks all these things are supposed to be given to her because she’s got parents. It’s not going to happen, at least not in our house. She can get a job and work for money just like everyone else. Then she can spend it on anything she wants (within reason). If she wants to work for two months to save enough to purchase a $1000 SLR camera with an $800 lens, then I can guarantee she’ll NEVER leave it outside at night. She’ll be careful when she puts it away and carries it around. She’ll value it much more because she worked so hard to get it. Instead, with the current way things have been given to her, she's on about her fourth phone and just expects another one when she breaks the one she has. She's not sorry about breaking it, or losing it, she's sorry only because she can't text her friends. I firmly believe she'll be a LOT more careful when she has to buy her own $299.00 Motorola Razr smartphone.

Until then, she can do chores, and lots and lots of them, so the people who ARE feeding her, clothing her, paying for all her school trips, paying for her musical instruments, can have some time to relax after they finish working to support her and the rest of the family. She can either work to make money on her own, or she will do chores to contribute around the house. She’s known all along that all she has to do is get a job and a lot of these chores will go away. But if you’re too lazy to work even to get things you want for yourself, I’m certainly not going to let you sit idly on your rear-end with your face glued to both the TV and Facebook for 5 to 6 hours per night. Those days are over.

Q: How did your daughter respond to the video and to what happened to her laptop?

A: She responded to the video with “I can’t believe you shot my computer!” That was the first thing she said when she found out about it. Then we sat and we talked for quite a long while on the back patio about the things she did, the things I did in response, etc.

Later after she’d had time to process it and I’d had time to process her thoughts on the matters we discussed, we were back to a semi-truce… you know that uncomfortable moment when you’re in the kitchen with your child after an argument and you’re both waiting to see which one’s going to cave in and resume normal conversation first? Yeah, that moment. I told her about the video response and about it going viral and about the consequences it could have on our family for the next couple of days and asked if she wanted to see some of the comments people had made. After the first few hundred comments, she was astounded with the responses.

People were telling her she was going to commit suicide, commit a gun-related crime, become a drug addict, drop out of school, get pregnant on purpose, and become a stripper because she’s too emotionally damaged now to be a productive member of society. Apparently stripper was the job-choice of most of the commenters. Her response was “Dude… it’s only a computer. I mean, yeah I’m mad but pfft.” She actually asked me to post a comment on one of the threads (and I did) asking what other job fields the victims of laptop-homicide were eligible for because she wasn’t too keen on the stripping thing.

We agreed we learned two collective lessons from this so far:

First: As her father, I’ll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that.

Second: We have always told her what you put online can affect you forever. Years later a single Facebook/MySpace/Twitter comment can affect her eligibility for a good job and can even get her fired from a job she already has. She’s seen first-hand through this video the worst possible scenario that can happen. One post, made by her Dad, will probably follow him the rest of his life; just like those mean things she said on Facebook will stick with the people her words hurt for a long time to come. Once you put it out there, you can’t take it back, so think carefully before you use the internet to broadcast your thoughts and feelings."

H/T Rigpa for posting this from Facebook for those of us with no Facebook account.

BTW, I understand Mr. Jordan and his family live in Albemarle, NC.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2012, 01:07:00 PM »
I'm no one to judge...

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2012, 01:11:33 PM »
[blockquote]"First: As her father, I’ll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that."[/blockquote]

That is the lynch-pin of good parenting. Sooooooo many parents I see do not grasp this basic concept. I have lost respect for some very good friends because they do not practice consistency or integrity with their kids. They threaten, but never, ever follow through. And then when their kids are incorrigible, they can't figure out what went wrong. If a kid gets a hint that you don't mean what you say - whether it be on the positive or negative side of the kid's expectations ledger - you lose a piece of authority.

I was at my daughter's dance class a couple days ago, and one of the girl's parents were both there with the girl's little brother, who was about 4ish. The kid was absolutely out of control. Throwing things, screaming, sassing his parents, whining, and unhappy no matter what they did.

The dad; a big, strong looking man in a firefighter's uniform, apparently just off work. The mom; a typical soccer mom type. The dad was reduced to following the little terror around the lobby, saying, "Wassamatter Joey? Do you wanna play with the truck? (Nnnnnnnoooo!) Why not? You wanna be a good boy don't you Joey? (nnnnnoooooo!) Why not? If you're a good boy then we can go to McDonald's later. (I don't WANT MC'DONALD'S!) Why not Joey? You like chicken nuggets."

Then mom comes in. "Joey, if you don't be a good boy, we're gonna go home. (No response from Joey) Do you wanna go home Joey? (No response from Joey) Cuz if you're not a good boy, we're gonna go home. Do you wanna go home Joey? (I wanna go home!)"

Of course, "going home" was supposed to be some kind of threat, which it wasn't, and when the kid called her bluff, the end result was no consequence whatsoever for monsterish behavior. That is a paraphrasing of about 45 minutes of chaos that made about 10 adults absolutely miserable. I wanted to throttle them both. I felt like asking if I could intervene.

I can honestly say I have never, ever had to put up with anything like this, because the parameters were laid out early and often, so that by the time the kid could speak, they would never have dared push the boundaries in such ways. Never a single tantrum between 4 children. Not a one. They of course pushed boundaries, but in much healthier ways that did not bring my authority or their need to respect it up for debate.

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2012, 01:54:41 PM »
Amazing (in a good way)  ::cool::

Just the other day my daughters and I were talking about how most of their friends don't have to help around the house at all. I stopped telling people about the chores my kids did because they'd give me strange looks. And I happen to think I let my kids off easy!  

One of my daughters came home from work yesterday and told me a co-worker has had to put her 12 year old in to a daily hospital program (it meets all day, every week day and it does provide a tutor for school work) because the kid has "issues".  They aren't even clear yet what all the issues are since she only started going this past week.  What triggered the mother's concern was she found her 12 yo was "sexting" and it included pictures.

Most parents seemed to think their kid's one "job" is to go to school.  It's astounding how parents trust schools to raise their kids.

IDP--I've had the same experiences.  In line at the store the mother alternately begged and threatened the 3 year old.  Then the grandma joined in trying to be the voice of reason--kept offering the kid a treat from the rack next to her.  Finally the kid shut up (prob just got tuckered out) and grandma handed the kid a treat any way. 

"the parameters were laid out early and often"  THAT'S THE KEY!  You can't start at 7 or 12 or 15 or 18. It's starts fom day one. 

My 23 year old lives at home.  She has a curfew.  I asked a few parents what they thought and they thought I should adjust to her being an adult and let her set her own hours.  I had a discussion with her and told her my reasons and she said ok.  No tears, no arguments.  She understands if she wants to set her own hours it will be in her own place and not here where there are people who get up early and children who go to bed early.
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Online Pandora

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2012, 02:08:56 PM »
My NJ friend called me recently absolutely on fire about her dining-out experience that evening.  Two sets of oblivious parents and four-five out of control kids causing upset and upheaval in a roomful of adults and no one, not even the manager, would intervene -- my friend's husband insisted she not say anything either.  After the brats and their parents left, the manager approached my friend, sotto voce, with "well, that was terrible, wasn't it?" and she let him and every other adult in the place have it - her husband's annoyance notwithstanding - about no one having the spine to address the adults about their children's misbehavior.

One parenting behavior that jerks my chain is when I hear parents say to their children, "Please do _________, OKAY?"  Do they want the kid to do or not do something?  Then don't ask the kid if it's okay, just tell him.

My sister's parenting skills left much to be desired, in my opinion, which I wasn't allowed to express because I had/have no children.  Okay, granted, some of life's situations have to be personally experienced in order to know what to do, or not, but, I'm not stupid and I can tell, through observation, when something is not working.

One last thing and then I'll rant-off (people who do not know how to parent and their incorrigible progeny are one of my hot-buttons) --

I know little boys are itchy, fidgety creatures, but parents, it is your job to take this fact into account and deal with it.  I stopped at a Boy Scout popcorn-selling table outside the grocery store.  Who was doing the work, do ya think?  That's right, Mom and Dad, while the 8 year-old Boy Scout was skipping around, totally inattentive, didn't think to ask for the money, didn't hand me my purchase and barely interacted at all.  I believe the kids are supposed to learn something pertinent about commerce and dealing with people through this activity; this kid learned his parents would do the work for him and he would get the credit.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 04:07:37 PM »
....I know little boys are itchy, fidgety creatures, but parents, it is your job to take this fact into account and deal with it.  I stopped at a Boy Scout popcorn-selling table outside the grocery store.  Who was doing the work, do ya think?  That's right, Mom and Dad, while the 8 year-old Boy Scout was skipping around, totally inattentive, didn't think to ask for the money, didn't hand me my purchase and barely interacted at all.  I believe the kids are supposed to learn something pertinent about commerce and dealing with people through this activity; this kid learned his parents would do the work for him and he would get the credit.

That's mom and dad taking the path of least work and least resistance. It's easier for them to do the work than to try to teach the kid to do the work.

Parents don't realize it, but through this passive approach - in all the permutations of passivity we are discussing - they are allowing themselves to be conditioned by their child. Rather than do the hard work necessary to teach life's lessons, they passively allow the kid to set the rules. Those rules aren't defined, and remain unspoken, but to the child who is completely unaware of the dynamic, those rules are nonetheless ironclad, despite the fact that they are not articulated rules. The parent's words say "I'm in charge", but the parent's actions say, "I adjust to you." The rules of interpersonal communication apply whether one recognizes what is happening or not.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 11:42:24 PM »
These types of parents who run themselves ragged catering to their kids are doing the kids no favors.  This children will become adults who will have no fricking clue as to how to get through a day as an adult , let alone parent a child.  I have known people who would tell me they couldn't stand to be around their own kids all day. They can't understand how I homeschool.  I want to say I like my kids and they are pleasant people to be around but I usually just shrug and say it's not for everyone. 

When I was a young mom I was vigilant about not inflicting a fussy baby or toddler on others.  I knew dinner out after 6 pm was asking for trouble so we would go around 5 and be home by 6.  Everyone was happier that way.

But I also expect my kids to adjust to the world.  I didn 't pack a diaper bag and snacks etc like I was going on vacation every time I took them out either.  I go to the library with my kids now and I dread being there when the moms show up with these strollers laden with enough stuff to keep a small village of kids happy for days. It's like these tots are being wheeled around on a throne. Heaven forbid the kid had to sit in the stroller and look out at the world.

I took my kids every where with me and they behaved. Sometimes they'd be the only kids there and often someone would say to me later how great they were. It used to bother me when I'd hear people complain about parents taking kids to restaurants, movies, etc (all the stuff I did).  Now I've become that person too. (Even my young ones complan about misbehaving kids--they'll point it out to me  saying that mom was not disciplining their child!)

Pan, your story about the popcorn selling reminded me of when one of my kids had to sell candy bars. Each family was required to sell 50-75.  This meant we had to go door-to-door.  My daughter at 8 had to lug that box to every house herself and she sold every one of those bars herself. (Of course, I went with her but I stayed on the driveways and she had to do all the talking/selling--she must have learned something she once got a diabetic to buy 5 and then give them to her).

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Online Pandora

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2012, 08:34:28 AM »
Quote
... she must have learned something she once got a diabetic to buy 5 and then give them to her).

Hahah!  What a little charmer you have there, LV!
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2012, 12:04:06 PM »
Heh, you're paying for those hollowpoints too!

 ::danceban::

Amen!

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2012, 12:40:48 PM »
I played that vid for the 23 yo I mentioned above.  She thought it was awesome.  She especially liked the bullet shot for the mother.  She put the link on her facebook and she was shocked at how many of her friends thought the father was terrible for what he did.

She's coached and taught classes over the last few years and one thing she told me is she establishes her authority from the get-go.  She tells each new class she has 3 rules: "1)No talking when I'm talking; 2)show up on time and do your work and rule 3 is reserved. You don't want me to use rule 3." She makes them repeat it a few times until she's sure they get it.  Needless to say almost all of her students love her!  She's teaching a religion class at our church this year.  In a few short weeks she's taught them more than they ever learned in all the years prior.  One kid asked on the first day if they should bring paper, pen and a folder to class.  She said you're in 7th grade I think you can figure it out.


"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Online Pandora

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 12:51:47 PM »
I played that vid for the 23 yo I mentioned above.  She thought it was awesome.  She especially liked the bullet shot for the mother.  She put the link on her facebook and she was shocked at how many of her friends thought the father was terrible for what he did.

She's coached and taught classes over the last few years and one thing she told me is she establishes her authority from the get-go.  She tells each new class she has 3 rules: "1)No talking when I'm talking; 2)show up on time and do your work and rule 3 is reserved. You don't want me to use rule 3." She makes them repeat it a few times until she's sure they get it.  Needless to say almost all of her students love her!  She's teaching a religion class at our church this year.  In a few short weeks she's taught them more than they ever learned in all the years prior.  One kid asked on the first day if they should bring paper, pen and a folder to class.  She said you're in 7th grade I think you can figure it out.


I read a bunch of the comments at the YouTube page and many of the reactions there were the same; they were appalled at the "violation" -- their word -- this father committed on his daughter.  He didn't shoot her; he shot the damn laptop and posted the vid on his daughter's Facebook "wall" as a lesson for other kids and their parents.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 12:54:26 PM »
Violation??

 ::hysterical::

She wouldn't have had the laptop if not for dear old dad.

Sounds like a lot of commenters think kids have rights.  ::)
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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2012, 01:25:40 PM »
Violation??

 ::hysterical::

She wouldn't have had the laptop if not for dear old dad.

Sounds like a lot of commenters think kids have rights.  ::)

I suspect a lot of the commenters are kids, they do think that, and from whence did that cockamamie notion come, I wonder?  From a bunch of wing-nut adults, aka "the experts".  One commenter described a news segment he'd seen, whereby a "parenting expert" pontificated on the vid, and his "expert" parenting advice was to reward the good and ignore the bad. 

I'm guessing there are a lot of people in jail whose bad was ignored until the cops took an interest.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 01:35:30 PM »
whereby a "parenting expert" pontificated on the vid, and his "expert" parenting advice was to reward the good and ignore the bad. 

I'm guessing there are a lot of people in jail whose bad was ignored until the cops took an interest.

A friend sent me a link to a homeschooling conference she's going to next month.  I looked through the session offerings and saw this:
Quote
The Surprising Evidence for New Thinking About Children (Melissa Bradford)


Praising a child causes under-performance and competition. An early morning start for a teen reduces achievement and increases depression. If a child argues with his parents, it's a good sign, not a bad one. Typical strategies to produce truthfulness result in making children better liars. Video games promote friendships and cooperation, not obesity and violence. Carrot-and-stick approaches are exactly the wrong way to motivate people. Vulnerability to peer pressure is a good thing in the long run. Enormous IQ gains in young children can result from an unexpected intervention: free play. Hear about surprising new research in psychology that directly challenges many modern parenting and education practices.

The only thing that I agree with is the value of free play.

There are loons in the homeschooling movement--terrified to discipline and have standards for their kids or they might ruin them!
 ::facepalm::
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Online Pandora

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2012, 02:00:52 PM »
 ::facepalm::  is right.

There's a formal name -- free play -- for what our parents used to tell us, "go outside and play or I'll find something for you to do"!

Oy.

Many, many days now I'm thinking the best thing for us is to have it all fall down.  The Remnant will restart things the right way and tell the eggsperts to STFD and STFU.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2012, 07:33:07 AM »
The video has gone viral, and, gun-hating libnut's are going apesh*t, mostly because they are too stupid to know any better anyway...

Well, the story doesn’t end there. In a new post on Jordan’s Facebook page, he says that numerous people called the police and child protective services as a result of his viral (millions of hits) video. And both paid him a visit.

“For those that feel the need to keep calling the police and CPS,” the Stanly County, North Carolina resident writes, “lol.“ Those letters are the universal symbol for ”laugh out loud.”

He‘s laughing because both the police and child protective services didn’t find anything wrong.

“How’s about those apples?” he asks. “Didn’t expect THAT when you called the cops did you?”
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/dad-who-shot-up-daughters-laptop-with-a-45-says-cops-paid-him-a-visit/

 ::cool::

I heard on the radio that he keeps a fresh pot of coffee going all the time so he can properly thank the officers that might still stop by.

 ;D
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2012, 09:32:08 AM »
I can't express how incredibly lucky that guy was. He videoed himself shooting at, and destroying his daughters property. In my state he would likely would have had a restraining order placed on him preventing contact with her (effectively evicting him from his own property - but without obviating the necessity for him to continue paying for it).

But had it been his mother, not so much (of course she only encourages destruction and doesn't actually do it herself).

When Random was in the 3rd grade she came to school with bruises on her arms. Her teacher noted them and dutifully called the office, who dutifully called CPS. (Random was living with her mother at the time) CPS came out to the school and investigated. They decided that although the injuries indicated rough treatment, they weren't bad enough to warrant intervention. They never bothered to share any of this with me and Random was sworn to secrecy.

I only found out about it years later after her maternal parental unit escalated her abuse.

Yet I had to submit to fingerprinting in order to be a chaperon for student field trips.

Go figure.

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2012, 04:27:08 PM »
I figured he'd be getting visits.

I'm thinking some of those cops are good ole boys who don't take to snotty teens.

But he is lucky.
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Online Pandora

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Re: Facebook parenting for the troubled teen ....
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2012, 05:16:50 PM »
This story was all over the local radio "news" today.  There are some busybody idiots who want the Dad charged ... with something, anything.  Unfortunately for them, he broke no laws.

Fer cryin' out loud!  This is the country we live in now; the guy shot up a piece of electronic equipment that belonged to him, on his property, and people are screeching for his arrest as though he did something criminal.

A$$holes.
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