Author Topic: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books  (Read 802 times)

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Offline Libertas

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MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« on: February 16, 2012, 11:40:24 AM »
http://www.cjglawoffice.com/minnesota-defense-of-dwelling-and-person-act-bill-expand-self-defense-deadly-force.html

Interesting that this guy mentions the "retreat" thing as not in MN statutes but my CCW instructor told us to err on the side of caution because of how prosecutors would pursue cases.  For example, somebody breaks in, try to take your TV out tyhe door and you blow them away...the perception is a trigger happy gun nut was looking for any opportunity to blow someone away, and over a TV set?  It's all about characterization and convincing jurors this was excessive.  Sure, not on the statutes, but trial by jury is still trial by jury, and that is who prosecutors play to.  Shed all naivete about justice and truth, that's for morons, it's all about winning, perception and politics.  My CCW trainer said in such a circumstance, bolt out of the house and call the cops.  Stuff in the house is insured.  If caught inside, call the cops on speakerphone and tell them someone broke in, then set the phone down and yell so both the perp and the police can hear you say "take what you want" (see, it's not about protecting my crap), "leave quickly, the cops are coming" and close with "I am armed, do not approach (my area) or I will assume you intend me harm and I will shoot" (perp is warned).

A Castle Law will make all that dancing less important, it may still be difficult to prove innocence if you blew an unarmed guy away for grabbing your TV, but it would make it easier by defaulting to a perceived intent of harm/injury/death as it should be.  I hope we get it, but who knows what that idiot Dayton will do, I would think that putz would veto it, then the legislature would have to go the referendum route.  People have a basic right to be safe within their own home, or car or boat...that just seems too basic, reasonable and undeniable!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 11:43:11 AM »
Good luck, I hope it passes.  It's common damn sense and shouldn't be requiring statute in state after state, but I guess "this is the country we live in now". In my view anyone who forcibly enters your home is a prima facie deadly threat, and warrants a response in kind.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 01:58:24 PM »
Yeah, all this running away crap, from my home?!  And having to do all this CYA crap?!  BS!  Mine is mine and not yours, stay out of my biz period!  Jeesh. "that is where we are now"...

 ::cussing::   ::gaah::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 02:14:06 PM »
The CCW class I attended emphasized the illegality of shooting someone leaving my house with my goods in his arms.  I don't know whether NC has a Castle Doctrine or not; maybe Glock knows if the Ledge got 'er done.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 02:42:07 PM »
The CCW class I attended emphasized the illegality of shooting someone leaving my house with my goods in his arms.  I don't know whether NC has a Castle Doctrine or not; maybe Glock knows if the Ledge got 'er done.

Yell "Hey", and shoot him anyway. When the police come you tell them that he was coming right for ya!

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charlesoakwood

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 02:50:37 PM »

Old time saying around here, "if you shoot 'em in the yard drag 'em in the house before the police get there".

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 02:57:58 PM »

Old time saying around here, "if you shoot 'em in the yard drag 'em in the house before the police get there".

Yah, I've heard that old saying too.  Don't do it; the cops will know and if one lives where the gummint frowns on self-defense (meaning: prosecutes) they'll just tack on extra charges, like "intent".
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 03:12:50 PM »

Old time saying around here, "if you shoot 'em in the yard drag 'em in the house before the police get there".

Yah, I've heard that old saying too.  Don't do it; the cops will know and if one lives where the gummint frowns on self-defense (meaning: prosecutes) they'll just tack on extra charges, like "intent".
Of course, this is assuming someone calls the cops. Man, I need to buy me a backhoe.

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2012, 03:15:23 PM »

Old time saying around here, "if you shoot 'em in the yard drag 'em in the house before the police get there".

Yah, I've heard that old saying too.  Don't do it; the cops will know and if one lives where the gummint frowns on self-defense (meaning: prosecutes) they'll just tack on extra charges, like "intent".
Of course, this is assuming someone calls the cops. Man, I need to buy me a backhoe.


Or get pigs.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 07:25:09 PM »
Heh!



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Offline Glock32

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 09:31:51 PM »
The CCW class I attended emphasized the illegality of shooting someone leaving my house with my goods in his arms.  I don't know whether NC has a Castle Doctrine or not; maybe Glock knows if the Ledge got 'er done.

NC does indeed have Castle Doctrine enacted into law now.  The bill passed last year and is now law.  Here is an excerpt about it from the NRA-ILA:

Quote
With the enactment of House Bill 650 earlier this year, many pro-gun changes to North Carolina laws will soon go into effect.  Thanks to the leadership of pro-gun state Representative Mark Hilton (R-96), these changes include:
 
  • Adopting the Castle Doctrine;
  • Prohibiting Fraudulent Firearms Purchases;
  • Allowing Right-to-Carry (RtC) permit holders to store firearms in their locked vehicles when parked on the grounds of certain state properties and courthouses;
  • Removing the restriction on owning (but not possessing) firearms by those subject to certain orders of protection;
  • Allowing purchase of rifles and shotguns by North Carolina residents in all other states;
  • Removing some restrictions on local governments prohibiting RtC permit holders from carrying firearms in parks under local control;
  • Allowing possession of Title II firearms in conformity with federal law and without limitation on any lawful use, as well as other improvements.
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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 09:35:45 PM »
Thanks, G.  Not much there about actually defending home (castle).  Got a link?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Glock32

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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 09:40:34 PM »
Here is a link to the ratified bill: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/HTML/H650v5.html

Quote
ยง 14?51.3.  Use of force in defense of person; relief from criminal or civil liability.

(a)        A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that the conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat in any place he or she has the lawful right to be if either of the following applies:

(1)        He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.

(2)        Under the circumstances permitted pursuant to G.S. 14?51.2.

(b)        A person who uses force as permitted by this section is justified in using such force and is immune from civil or criminal liability for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer or bail bondsman who was lawfully acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer or bail bondsman identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer or bail bondsman in the lawful performance of his or her official duties.
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Re: MN trying to get Castle Law on the books
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 09:43:44 PM »
Good deal; thanks, Glock.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"