Author Topic: Anti-Individualist  (Read 760 times)

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Anti-Individualist
« on: February 22, 2012, 09:57:30 AM »
I don't know if I can hold my nose to vote for this guy either

Quote
This whole idea of personal autonomy, well I don’t think most conservatives hold that point of view. Some do. They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low, keep our regulations low, that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world. There is no such society that I’m aware of, where we’ve had radical individualism and that it succeeds as a culture.”

The United States was that society and rose from being nobody to being a world superpower while fighting a massive civil war, in 100 Years. Why?  That "Radical" Individualism.
I don't know what a "traditional conservative" is to him. I am obviously not one, and neither were any of the Founders. As FrankJ said "I’m a classical liberal; I hold to the unfortunately still radical notion of individual liberty."

  Using government as a weapon to enforce the moral code of the culture - the Thou Shalts as Well as the Thou Shalt Nots (the latter being within legitimate government jurisdiction when it coincides with real, direct harm) is against the inalienable right of conscience.  If you do this you have no right to complain when the government is run by the  Taliban, The Spanish Inquisition, or a Liberal. You have established that such persecution using the government is "right" and "just" by your precedent.  

Religion is supposed to be the body and institution encouraging individuals to regulate their own behavior. The government has stolen the communities  main weapon of censure, and the institution has largely been rotted with "moral relativism" from within. But this does not change the fact that there are not enough police in the world to make fallen and sinful men govern themselves.  Only the world of God and Persuasion can be used to get them to do so, and sinners are saved ONE PERSON AT A TIME.  If a majority or even a large minority decide that what they are doing is not sinful or wrong, government force will not convince them otherwise, and you do not govern with the consent of the governed. If you forced a man at gunpoint to behave virtuously, preventing him from doing sin,  when in his heart he desired to do nothing but evil, will you have saved him in God's eyes? Individual Repentance and acceptance of God's law is the only salvation available, and no earthly law can force or coerce that action. That is the basis of the right of Conscience.  The government has the right to protect citizens  from harm, not to protect sinners from sin.

It is our differences, and right of self determination that make this country strong. If you use the government to erase those difference, and determine for others what they should be, then we are only as good as the people in charge, and History has shown those who seek such power to be the worst sort of men. Santorum is unfortunately one of them.  

« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 04:51:52 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: Anti-Individualist
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 10:22:26 AM »
As with all these people, I leave room for them to convince me of an epiphany somewhere along the road to their candidacy. Santorum doesn't seem to feel a need to distance himself from any of his record. That is a problem, and will be a problem for his electability in the general election.

He's a likable guy, and I always admired his staunch stance on life and morality, but as with every candidate who's emerged to dominate Romney and the attention of conservatives desperate to not get stuck with him, Santorum's glaring weaknesses in a general election matchup are coming to the forefront. I'm starting to cringe at the idea of Obama and the media shifting the attention away from the abysmal Democrat record and onto "shiny-object" issues that divide conservatives.

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Pandora

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Re: Anti-Individualist
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 10:32:57 AM »
Any Republican in the WH pushing in that direction will lead to a libertine backlash.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: Anti-Individualist
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 11:00:26 AM »
What a silly idea.
Personal autonomy and individual responsibility?

Where do they come up with these things?


Offline Libertas

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Re: Anti-Individualist
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 11:29:14 AM »
When I see these terms "personal autonomy" and "radical individualism" I'm not seeing crosshairs on a conservative liberty-loving foundational "individualists" but an attack on libertines which not coincidentally comprise the hardcore base of Ron Paul supporters...they want complete autonomy, I bet even the reintroduction of the Articles of Confederation would be found to be a radical overbearing government intrusion upon daily life.  While I share many of their desires to root out government control over each and everything, I do not subscribe to their dogmatic anything goes/no rules/no morals/no nothing worldview.  If Rick is targeting this group, he should declare so more clearly.

Now, his definition of what a "traditional conservative" is, yeah, OK, I got a problem with that, as general themes go, we can quibble over how "left alone" and "do what we want to do" is defined and we can argue over what social issues are acceptable to debate in the public areana, but if we do not agree on the principles of lower taxes and regulation...what the heck do we have left to agree on?

He's got some 'splainin' to do!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Anti-Individualist
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 11:46:03 AM »
"Let’s not fool ourselves that Rick Santorum is a small government guy. He’s not."

I couldn't say it better...

Offline Predator Don

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Re: Anti-Individualist
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 04:50:11 PM »
You know what..... ok, he said it and after listening, I'm not sure of the context....But I've got enough issues with the other candidates without siphoning off a few more voters by dragging him over the coals for an interview from 2008.

He best matches my beliefs....I wouldn't have stated what he did. Newt is next on my ABO list. I wouldn't have done a commercial with pelosi. I love(d) Ronald Reagen, but i wouldn't have given amnesty to illegals.

Rick voted for tax cuts, balance budget amendments, welfare reform and is a social conservative. I'm sure he doesn't hold my belief of clubbing certian politicans. Nobodies perfect.
I'm not always engulfed in scandals, but when I am, I make sure I blame others.

Offline Sectionhand

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Re: Anti-Individualist
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 05:11:22 AM »
Submission to authority is the new Diversity .

Offline Libertas

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Re: Anti-Individualist
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 07:27:36 AM »
Submission to authority is the new Diversity .

Well, nobody drops to their knees better than a Leftist.

 ::)
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.