Author Topic: A-stan; past time to get out  (Read 647 times)

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Online Pandora

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A-stan; past time to get out
« on: February 28, 2012, 02:40:20 PM »
Newt agrees.

“We are not going to fix Afghanistan. It is not possible,” he told a large group of Republicans at an afternoon luncheon here. “These are people who have spent several thousand years hating foreigners. And what we have done by staying is become the new foreigners.

“This is a real problem. And there are some problems where you have to say, ‘You know, you are going to have to figure out how to live your own miserable life… because you clearly don’t want to learn from me how to be unmiserable. And that is what you are going to see happen.”

Everything is weighted by politics right now which is to be expected, but there's more at stake here:

Quote
... the official spin is that incidents of rebellion by Afghan troops are still relatively rare and might be caused by Taliban infiltration, but read this Time piece casting doubt on that. Even the Army itself doesn’t believe it:

    The Saturday attacks seem to verify the findings of a declassified — then reclassified — U.S. Army study titled A Crisis of Trust and Cultural Incompatibility, which was released in May 2011. Through hundreds of interviews with both Afghan and American service members, it found that the murders of NATO troops by Afghan troops “do not represent ‘rare and isolated events’ as [is] currently being proclaimed.” Afghan soldiers cited night raids and home searches by foreign troops, the lack of respect for women, indiscriminate shooting, constant cursing and arrogance as top complaints against their foreign “partners.” They also said failure to prosecute foreign troops for war crimes, disrespect for Afghan soldiers, poor logistical support and a failure to share information led to divisions between the two forces — among numerous other complaints that included entering mosques, eating in front of fasting Afghan soldiers during Ramadan and other episodes of the desecration of the Koran.

    At the same time, the report noted that U.S. troops have an extremely low regard for their Afghan counterparts. The service members’ top complaints were that the Afghans were drug abusers, thieves, traitorous, unstable, incompetent and had poor officers and noncommissioned officers. The troops also said Afghan recruits lacked discipline, were dangerous in firefights, were cowardly, lazy and had poor hygiene.

    The report concludes that “the rapidly growing fratricide-murder trend committed by Afghan national security force [ANSF] personnel against NATO members” confirms the “ineffectiveness [of] our efforts in stabilizing Afghanistan, developing a legitimate and effective government, battling the insurgency, gaining the loyalty, respect and friendship of the Afghans [and] building the ANSFs into legitimate and functional organizations.” The report says that these complaints and murders challenge the usefulness of the “partnering” concept
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These people are NOT LIKE US.  They do not want the lives that Westerners want, despite the idiots who keep repeating this faulty premise until they are blue in the face.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: A-stan; past time to get out
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 08:24:21 PM »

Remember, it was Obama who said the focus should be Afghanistan and
it was he who increased our operations there.  Before Obama we were
not nation building there, we were stopping jihad madrassas and other
terroristic activities.  They were free to do whatever pleased themselves
with each other.

Offline Libertas

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Re: A-stan; past time to get out
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 08:04:47 AM »
The stark difference in complaints between the two groups illustrates the point perfectly, there is no equitable balance in them.  As Pan says, "these people are not like us'.  And I like how Newt used the phrase "You know, you are going to have to figure out how to live your own miserable life… because you clearly don’t want to learn from me how to be unmiserable."

They do not know how to be unmiserable, or if you will, they do not have the capacity to live in a modern "civilized" world.

I do not want one more American hurt let alone killed in that sh*thole nation.  We should quarrantine the nation, if the fall to Taliban & AQ again, tough sh*t!  There is some strategic sense in keeping all the rotten eggs in one basket, they start exporting Jihad again, we bomb the bastards.  That should be the operational plan from now till eternity.

Iraq is infinitely more civilized than Afghanistan, there is no guarnantee that a stable unhostile government will thrive there (especially as long as we continue our policy of ignoring and not answering Iranian meddling) but there is a much better chance than the zero in Afghanistan.  If Iran can be flipped Iraq may have a chance, if not the region remains a basket case for perpetuity.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: A-stan; past time to get out
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 08:42:07 AM »

Remember, it was Obama who said the focus should be Afghanistan and
it was he who increased our operations there.  Before Obama we were
not nation building there, we were stopping jihad madrassas and other
terroristic activities.  They were free to do whatever pleased themselves
with each other.




another flaw.....
I'm not always engulfed in scandals, but when I am, I make sure I blame others.