Author Topic: Game of Thrones  (Read 59522 times)

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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2015, 09:11:49 AM »
So, given the twist in the last episode...should we establish odds if Davos collects on his small fee?

I say the little bugger wriggles free...

Spoiler!
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I've seen a still photo of Tyrion sitting on a balcony with Danaerys and other nobles, watching gladiator fights, with Ser Jorah as one of the gladiators! So I don't think he's wriggling free. Somehow Tyrion and Ser Jorah make it to Mereen.

The question that intrigues me is whether Ser Jorah will be vindicated. Remeber that Dany sent him away because she learned that he was conspiring with Lord Verys the Eunuch. She didn't know he was conspiring to HELP her gain the Iron Throne. Will she learn of it? How, and from whom? Will it be before he's killed, or will it be after it's too late?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:46:55 AM by IronDioPriest »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2015, 11:07:46 AM »
So, given the twist in the last episode...should we establish odds if Davos collects on his small fee?

I say the little bugger wriggles free...

Spoiler!
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-
-
-
-
-
-
-




I've seen a still photo of Tyrion sitting on a balcony with Danaerys and other nobles, watching gladiator fights, with Ser Jorah as one of the gladiators! So I don't think he's wriggling free. Somehow Tyrion and Ser Jorah make it to Mereen.

The question that intrigues me is whether Ser Jorah will be vindicated. Remeber that Dany sent him away because she learned that he was conspiring with Lord Verys the Eunuch. She didn't know he was conspiring to HELP her gain the Iron Throne. Will she learn of it? How, and from whom? Will it be before he's killed, or will it be after it's too late?

I'll bet on "too late", the flow of this thing is consistently in favor of violent ends...

Also...a good question to ponder...when (if ever) is Lady Sansa's run of horrid luck end?  The Bolton bastard might be worse than that little demented twerp who choked to death!

And don't ask me what is going on in the House of Black & White with Arya... 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 11:11:31 AM by Libertas »
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Offline fordguy_85

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2015, 07:03:45 PM »
So, given the twist in the last episode...should we establish odds if Davos collects on his small fee?

I say the little bugger wriggles free...

Spoiler!
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-




I've seen a still photo of Tyrion sitting on a balcony with Danaerys and other nobles, watching gladiator fights, with Ser Jorah as one of the gladiators! So I don't think he's wriggling free. Somehow Tyrion and Ser Jorah make it to Mereen.

The question that intrigues me is whether Ser Jorah will be vindicated. Remeber that Dany sent him away because she learned that he was conspiring with Lord Verys the Eunuch. She didn't know he was conspiring to HELP her gain the Iron Throne. Will she learn of it? How, and from whom? Will it be before he's killed, or will it be after it's too late?





Actually, in the books from the best of my remembrance, Ser Jorah was spying on Daenerys for Lord Varys to try and receive a pardon for crimes committed... Slavery if I'm not mistaken. He did have a change of heart, though... Again, this is all IIRC
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2015, 07:33:04 PM »
They've increasingly departed from the books. More so this season than every before.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online ToddF

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2015, 07:59:37 AM »
I'm noticing the departure in Season 4, even.  Catelyn Stark is still dead, and listed as dead in the wiki, but in the books, she's kind of an undead (for lack of a better term)

Shouldn't Arya be over in that monastery, across the ocean, by now?

And Ser Johan as spy, as mentioned.

Heh.  Was reading Vox Day, yesterday, and he said what I've been saying.  Just get Brandon Sanderson to finish the books, already, as you obviously aren't up to it.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2015, 08:12:34 AM »
Season 5 answering a couple of those...
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2015, 11:08:29 AM »
Ser Jorah was guilty of selling poachers into slavery.  In all of Westeros, slavery is a major taboo.  He could have been sentenced to death for it, but Ned Stark allowed him to go into exile instead.

King Robert, through Varys, offered a pardon to Jorah if he would agree to spy on Viserys and Danerys Targaryen.  Over the course of this, and especially after the death of Viserys, Jorah began to genuinely believe in Danerys and her claim to the throne.

I wonder how Varys will factor into all this.  Is he genuine in wanting to support Danerys now?  If so, how will he convince her, particularly with one of her new advisors being Ser Barristan -- who would know Varys only too well from their days in King's Landing?

On another note -- if the theory about Tyrion's parentage (fathered by a Targaryen prince) is true, perhaps the dragons will recognize this in him and that will be the proof Danerys needs to trust him?
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2015, 12:05:35 PM »
There are many mysteries.

It helps that sites like this exist that have maps and such to help put things into perspective, and I like maps and data.  It is curious to me that so much bloodshed is unleashed over the smaller continent of Westeros when there is so much more territory in Essos, and since it has been disclosed that the Lannister mines have run out three years ago (in Season 5 timeframe) part of the mayhem is due to lack of new resources to exploit, thus they have to feed off one another.  Also, I find it not a coincidence that the new Targaryen threat (with armies and dragons) rises in Essos, that the Iron Bank is centered in Braavos (as is the mysterious God of Many Faces cult), that the old oft-mentioned cities of Volantis and the legendary metal and literary culture of Valyria is in Essos.  There must be more resources in that part of the world that haven't been found or rediscovered, and it is this continent that will have a big say in the future of Westeros.

As for plot changes to the book, it appears good performances breed deeper/new story lines.

Varys may only have a provisional future with Danerys, but I think both he and Tyrion's future with her would be better together than apart.  Anyway, I had not heard this Targaryen angle to Tyrion's parentage...as the Targaryen's favored incest in royal breeding, it could more readily explain the dwarf mutation of an offspring leaping from that half of the gene pool...a practice conducted by Cersi and the King Slayer...and who knows how the at-present mild King remains mild?
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2015, 03:06:16 PM »
On the Essos vs. Westeros thing, the two continents are vaguely analagous to Western Europe (Westeros) and the Middle East/Mediterranean/Asia (Essos).  The Westerosi are descendents of people who migrated from Essos thousands of years before, and the Targaryens also came from Essos but much more recently.

So I think that explains some of the reason the smaller continent of Westeros seems to have more warring -- they're the offspring of Essos colonists who went to Westeros precisely because there was nothing unclaimed in Essos.  It's sort of an Old World vs. New World dynamic.  In Essos everything has been claimed by an aristocracy for thousands of years, or under constant threat of barbarian hordes (the Dothraki), or in completely inhospitable areas (the Red Waste, etc).  There's not many opportunities for upstarts or younger sons (hence the company of mercenaries calling themselves the Second Sons).

At any rate, the Narrow Sea seems to be a significant feature of that world.  It's small enough to permit trade and cultural exchange between the two continents, but still enough of a physical barrier that launching invasions in either direction would be very difficult.
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2015, 12:08:35 PM »
If you haven't seen this yet, it really clarifies the theory of Jon Snow's Targaryan/Stark heritage...

R+L=J: who are Jon Snow's parents? [AGOT/S1 major spoilers, ACOK/S2 minor spoilers]
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2015, 08:05:57 AM »
Interesting theory IDP.  I think it is supported by the recent events, specifically the mention of blue flowers (blue roses I think was the term used by Little Finger & Sansa) in the crypt in Winterfell where Lyanna rests.  Plus, I thought that Red Priestess was interested in Jon to make another one of those killer shadows to send at Bolton because of his royal blood (Eddard) but perhaps that blood is even more royal than we thought.

The only way I can see Jon getting clear to any claim on the throne is if the need for the Watch is ended...and I think the White Walkers and the response of the others in Westeros will have a say in that...as no doubt will the Mother of Dragons.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2015, 10:00:53 AM »
So I wonder if Jaime has had an epiphany about turning his handicap into a new advantage?  Unless an enemy knew who he was, and that he had a prosthetic metal hand, they would have to be shocked by seeing him grab their sword with his bare hand.

We finally got to see Ser Barristan fight, and it rather reminded me of Obi-wan Kenobi.  Old Obi-wan Kenobi.  I kind of knew he was going to die.  That whole warm moment between him and Danaerys seemed to foreshadow it.

How do you think his loss (and I am not sure yet about Grey Worm -- I think he's just injured as opposed to dead) will factor into the imminent arrival of Jorah and Tyrion (and maybe Varys close on their heels)?  She needs advisers of proven skill, now more than ever.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2015, 12:03:03 PM »
I thought the same thing about the latter, having Barristan out leaves her really short on good advice.  If Grey Worm dies she is down to the mercenary Daario Naharis and the chic who mostly just does interpreting.

And speaking of that fella, how does he factor into the Jon Snow parentage issue?  Should not have someone as high up the Targaryen pyramid like Ser Barristan Selmy been privy to the goings on of Prince Rhaegar?

It appears as a young man Jaime Lannister squired for Selmy.

And we still have to see what role the mysterious Jaqen H'ghar and his new pupil Arya have to play, as well as what becomes of Edmure Tully, hostage of that old SOB Frey since the Red Wedding.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2015, 04:02:33 PM »
I really liked the scene between Stannis and his daughter Shireen.  The actress who plays her does a very good job of conveying the innocent little girl who has been shunned her entire life because of a disfigurement, but nevertheless remains cheery as she finds solace in her story books.

They seem to really be setting up a showdown of sorts, with her as the wedge.  Last season when Stannis decided to go north in response to the call for help from the Night's Watch, his wife confided to Melisandre that she believed her "heretic" daughter should be left behind, but Melisandre countered that Shireen must accompany them to the North because the Lord of Light had an important role for her to play there.

Fast forward to this episode and Selyce is once again castigating her daughter, and Melisandre counters that the Lord of Light had chosen her father to be his representative, and that Shireen thus carries her father's royal blood in her veins.  Then we see the scene where Shireen asks a genuinely heartbreaking question about whether or not Stannis is ashamed of her, and he in his gruff way explains that she is his daughter and he is not ashamed of her at all.

Melisandre and Selyce are going to want to use Shireen as a replacement for Gendry, and Stannis is going to have none of it.  Or perhaps they will do something to her when he is not around to stop it.  Either way, there's definitely a conflict brewing.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2015, 11:15:52 PM »
Ugh.  Danaerys marrying that guy?  That guy?

On the positive side, it was nice to see her finally use her dragons for something.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2015, 07:23:47 AM »
I say they should be fed more often...perhaps the groom  ::puke::   on the wedding night would make a nice meal?

Maybe they can invite that big dark dragon back for the feast?

And hey, hasn't the Mother of Dragons been fooling around with that Second Son fella, I bet he won't like this impending marriage.  There could be a slaying and another dead advisor in the offing.

Poor Jorah going to be all lizard-like by the time he makes it to the fighting pits, eh?!

We saw nothing of Jaime and Bronn, and that whole angle with rescuing the Lannister Princess has yet to unfold.  The mercenary Bronn is an interesting character, he can be a cold-blooded killer but there seems to be a bit of a moral streak in the man that restrains him from becoming a mad murderous lout like The Mountain.  And he has a bit of a sarcastic humor too.  The Arya angle has been dormant a bit too.

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2015, 09:48:21 AM »
The parallel story lines are on the edge of being too cumbersome. It is no wonder the showrunners are paring down the character list from the books; consolidating story-lines; eliminating others. Any more going on and it would be impossible to convey the story with any coherence.

Last season ended with Bran coming to terms with his warg ability. This season won't even feature him or Hodor at all. I'm already disappointed at how little time has been spent fleshing out the Dorne story. Alexander Siddig is a good addition to the cast, and he's seen little screen time, and nothing of real consequence so far.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 10:13:59 AM by IronDioPriest »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2015, 10:29:27 AM »
That guy they killed off in the Trial By Combat at the hands of the butcher known as The Mountain (the latter now being some sort of Frankenstien experiment by the Queen Mother's rogue Maester), was Dornish and had flair and an entertaining fighting style...but I didn't care for his bi-sexual habit...so no great loss, eh?

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Offline Glock32

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2015, 10:55:44 AM »
I just realized that the season is now halfway over, and we've seen little of Dorne.  It was supposed to be the primary setting for this season, at least according to all the promotional material.  If that's true, then they're going to have to show a whole lot of Dorne over the next 5 episodes.

I'm still irritated about the whole Daenerys marriage thing.  They just can't resist pairing her off, or having her hit on, by various swarthy types.  The captain of the Second Sons would be more acceptable, and she's already been sampling his wares on a regular basis anyway.

I called it with Jorah and the greyscale.  I was watching with my brother, and I was like "Jorah didn't really answer when Tyrion asked if he'd been touched -- he's got it."

Back to the Stannis plotline.  I can't help but think he is making a critical error by riding on Winterfell before Jon Snow has returned with Wildling allies.  I know he is trying to get moving before they are snowed in, and the Wildling alliance may never materialize, but I really really don't want to see Stannis defeated by the damn Boltons of all people.  The writers know Stannis is giving voice to the viewers right now, with his pledge to put Roose Bolton (Son of Michael, First of His Name) and Ramsey's heads on a spike.  We the viewers so badly want that sort of justice served, and we're led to believe Stannis is exactly the sort of man who will deliver it.  That's why I am convinced at the moment of truth we won't get it.  It's one of the major recurring themes in this whole story, that there is no purity of motive in that world -- what should happen, what would be right by all accounts, seldom materializes. It's how they set off Ned Stark to be such an anomaly in that world.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2015, 11:10:00 AM »
There are so many plotlines that if they are going to keep going with this they almost need 2 hour episodes...or a lot of stuff has to come to a head to pare things down.

No doubt you'll be right Glock, it's almost as if the writers are directed to torment viewers.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.