Author Topic: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3  (Read 1843 times)

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Offline Glock32

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the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« on: March 30, 2012, 06:14:55 PM »
There is a theory circulating, which Rush mentioned today, that Obamacare will be upheld as completely constitutional by a 6-3 vote.  The Leftists are obediently promulgating the theory, because they want it to be true obviously, but also because one of their tactics is to always present their agenda as a fait accompli.

However, there is something to this theory that does concern me.  The theory goes that if Kennedy falters and sides with the liberals (who, tellingly, never ever falter) then Roberts will side with the majority so that it can "protect the Court's legitimacy" by handing down a less acrimonious 6-3 margin, and that he will be able to appoint himself as author of the majority opinion.  It's unfortunate, but I can see "reputation", of both institution and individuals, being a factor. On a straight up interpretation of the Constitution as it is written, there is no way the government is empowered to make you buy something if you don't want to. But if that's how the Courts operated, there's a lot of existing law that would never have been upheld.

What do you think of this?


And also, if I hear "the Court is loath to tell Congress it can't do something" one more damn time.  That is WTF the Court is there for. That is its precise constitutional purpose!  ::gaah::
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charlesoakwood

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 07:29:34 PM »

It's sick; therefore, it has a higher than reasonable probability of occurring.

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 10:26:32 PM »
If they uphold the entire thing, there will be open rebellion in the streets.

Wait, and watch.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline trapeze

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 11:31:22 PM »
I would tend to classify this more in the realm of liberal fantasy. It's all they have left to cling to at this point.

Granted it could go their way but I would be guessing that it would be a 5-4 decision.

But I would much rather be in our shoes right now with at least a hint of confidence than to be in their shoes whistling through the graveyard.

So, umm...what is left to blow up in their faces?

Gas prices seem like a for sure thing right now...sure as one of those exploding cigars. What do you suppose the public's reaction is going to be to a WH driven race riot in FL? I'm thinking, not so much. Same with OWS ratcheting up their bad behavior this summer...almost certain to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Europe debt crisis? Iran?

Interesting times that O'Bongo has delivered to us.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 01:13:49 AM »
I think the Left is blowing smoke up Roberts' ass hoping he'll take the bait -- yeah okay; mixed metaphors.

I don't believe he will.

I have been wrong before.

Roberts, and they, had better base their decision on the Constitution, not as the legal-beagles have sliced/diced/parsed it over the years, but by what they know is proper.

Or else.

I will not comply.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 03:03:35 AM »
All of this is predicated on Kennedy voting in favor of the law. If he is buying its constitutionality it was a heck of an act this week. I don't know why he would fake all but outright hostility toward it if he was secretly in love with it.

That's wishful thinking on my part.

We should probably stop torturing ourselves over this...leave the left to stew in their own juices...and put this subject to bed until the decision is announced.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 08:13:53 AM »
All of this is predicated on Kennedy voting in favor of the law. If he is buying its constitutionality it was a heck of an act this week. I don't know why he would fake all but outright hostility toward it if he was secretly in love with it.

He's appeared hostile during questioning before, and then voted in favor of a law.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 08:58:00 AM »
I'll wager they rule it's ok

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2012, 09:27:07 AM »
If they uphold the entire thing, there will be open rebellion in the streets.

Wait, and watch.

  I don't see conservatives rioting.  If the founders were here they would have descended upon the capital in an armed mob a while ago and put every person who voted for Obamacare on trial for treason, followed by a swift execution. But I don't see that happening either. I expect we will hunker down in our homes and refuse to obey in a general tax revolt. If 1% of households participate that is  1 million people to track down and prosecute. The response could range from not paying at all, to paying only State, to paying your entire bill and just refusing to pay the $95 fine ( this year anyway) and "accidentally" leaving the new section  blank.  4000 new agents to go after 1 million people  who  will not owe because they DO have insurance (at least I don't plan to try to do without it) and they just didn't prove it. Sounds like an Obama wasteful boondoggle to me.  We would need some big names to call for it and take the hit -  Rush, Beck, Levin, Malkin, Coulter etc.   In some states the legislatures may even pass a bill to prevent the Fed from prosecuting individuals in their State ( a first move towards succession)  There might also be a DOS attack on the IRS where fake forms are mailed in, increasing the load on the system.  

And then you sit back and wait for the collapse.  What SCOTUS decides is irrelevant. It will be repealed by the reality that Obamacare adds another $15-$20 Trillion in unfunded liabilities - to our already large pile of $50-80 Trillion. It ensures a "crisis" of Great Depression magnitude  which I am sure thy try to plan to leverage into a Newer Deal. How FDR got away with it I will never know. Maybe because History was not yet clear on the subject of Socialism/Communism/Fascism and their effects. People like us didn't KNOW what would happen. Now we do, and hopefully that gets us off our butts and into action after the collapse- because after the collapse they will have to make at a very visible and very intrusive  police state.

Of course, that may not happen either (though I don't see how it doesn't) . In the end the only rational response in any probable  scenario  will probably be going Galt and prepping . Produce as much food and fuel as you can yourself. No money can go into a bank. Your transactions need to be bullion, cash or barter. (Obamacare gives the Fed the right to withdraw right from your account- garnish employer wages? Court Hearings? Nah. We will just take it and let you fight to get it back - that may be how they respond to a revolt like the above.. though it would be dangerous to - because we would pull all of our money overnight.. and with a system that is leveraged as much as 50:1 , pulling out 100K is pulling out 5 million. Of course, they WANT  a crisis...so  )

Form  a C-corporation, and take in all fiat payments through it, and then pay a  salary out in gold and silver eagles to yourself (or not- that might  garner unwanted attention if they figure it out)  or just pay yourself a salary that makes you "poor" so you  will qualify for food stamps, subsidized insurance via the Obamacare pools, etc  etc. ( Yes, I plan to not only leave the system but attempt to put additional strain on it - yes I understand that may be perceived as immoral) Your money is protected in the corporation account, (that is why is must be a Corp-C with officers and full reporting requirements - it makes the corporation another "person" - and Liberals hates that)  You can either be a cheater or a sucker in this society, and they will hunt down a persecute the grudger - so you must look like both. Your C-Corp is the cheater, and we know Obama likes them- as they like anyone who they think is playing and invested in their game. (Your C-Corp  should probably give to some lefty cause somewhere, just to be safe)  and your personal account is the sucker - the poor wage slave that hates capitalism.
 
As long as you fit their narrative they will probably leave you alone - which, in the end, is all we want.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 11:08:44 AM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 10:20:48 AM »
Well done Weisshaupt.

I haven't agonized (unduly) over this since its so totally out of my hands. My dim opinion of people and the process is so nearly complete that I don't expect to be disappointed by my disappointment.

My preference is to go Galt and my preparations have been toward that ambition. Along the way I would also like to perform a little public service ala Cloward-Piven. Since I'm such a poor loser (or so I've been told) I would like to be the one who pulls the lynch-pin from this crappy carnival ride and sends it crashing to the ground. I will take satisfaction that, since leftists have never actually built or created anything (except chaos), they will be left whimpering and grubbing through the muck of what they destroyed.

Offline Predator Don

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 12:50:08 PM »
If they uphold the entire thing, there will be open rebellion in the streets.

Wait, and watch.

  I don't see conservatives rioting.  If the founders were here they would have descended upon the capital in an armed mob a while ago and put every person who voted for Obamacare on trial for treason, followed by a swift execution. But I don't see that happening either. I expect we will hunker down in our homes and refuse to obey in a general tax revolt. If 1% of households participate that is  1 million people to track down and prosecute. The response could range from not paying at all, to paying only State, to paying your entire bill and just refusing to pay the $95 fine ( this year anyway) and "accidentally" leaving the new section  blank.  4000 new agents to go after 1 million people  who  will not owe because they DO have insurance (at least I don't plan to try to do without it) and they just didn't prove it. Sounds like an Obama wasteful boondoggle to me.  We would need some big names to call for it and take the hit -  Rush, Beck, Levin, Malkin, Coulter etc.   In some states the legislatures may even pass a bill to prevent the Fed from prosecuting individuals in their State ( a first move towards succession)  There might also be a DOS attack on the IRS where fake forms are mailed in, increasing the load on the system.  

And then you sit back and wait for the collapse.  What SCOTUS decides is irrelevant. It will be repealed by the reality that Obamacare adds another $15-$20 Trillion in unfunded liabilities - to our already large pile of $50-80 Trillion. It ensures a "crisis" of Great Depression magnitude  which I am sure thy try to plan to leverage into a Newer Deal. How FDR got away with it I will never know. Maybe because History was not yet clear on the subject of Socialism/Communism/Fascism and their effects. People like us didn't KNOW what would happen. Now we do, and hopefully that gets us off our butts and into action after the collapse- because after the collapse they will have to make at a very visible and very intrusive  police state.

Of course, that may not happen either (though I don't see how it doesn't) . In the end the only rational response in any probable  scenario  will probably be going Galt and prepping . Produce as much food and fuel as you can yourself. No money can go into a bank. Your transactions need to be bullion, cash or barter. (Obamacare gives the Fed the right to withdraw right from your account- garnish employer wages? Court Hearings? Nah. We will just take it and let you fight to get it back - that may be how they respond to a revolt like the above.. though it would be dangerous to - because we would pull all of our money overnight.. and with a system that is leveraged as much as 50:1 , pulling out 100K is pulling out 5 million. Of course, they WANT  a crisis...so  )

Form  a C-corporation, and take in all fiat payments through it, and then pay a  salary out in gold and silver eagles to yourself (or not- that might  garner unwanted attention if they figure it out)  or just pay yourself a salary that makes you "poor" so you  will qualify for food stamps, subsidized insurance via the Obamacare pools, etc  etc. ( Yes, I plan to not only leave the system but attempt to put additional strain on it - yes I understand that may be perceived as immoral) Your money is protected in the corporation account, (that is why is must be a Corp-C with officers and full reporting requirements - it makes the corporation another "person" - and Liberals hates that)  You can either be a cheater or a sucker in this society, and they will hunt down a persecute the grudger - so you must look like both. Your C-Corp is the cheater, and we know Obama likes them- as they like anyone who they think is playing and invested in their game. (Your C-Corp  should probably give to some lefty cause somewhere, just to be safe)  and your personal account is the sucker - the poor wage slave that hates capitalism.
 
As long as you fit their narrative they will probably leave you alone - which, in the end, is all we want.


I hope I don't need to do this....But I like the thought process.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 01:33:45 PM »
There is a very, very outside chance that things could go bizarrely the other way.

What if the wise latina decided to line up with Kennedy and the originalists?

It's unlikely, true, but it is within the realm of possibility. I just don't see the the other three voting any other way than in lockstep with their ideological ilk.

Just something to think about as long as we are goofing on outcomes.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2012, 03:49:54 PM »
I just have a feeling we're going to be disappointed. I can't shake the feeling that Kennedy was putting up a good show of things during oral arguments, to prep the ground for his change of mind after "a lot of deep deliberation".

Maybe at this point we're actually doing ourselves a disservice to try and halt the train wreck this far along. Do any of us genuinely believe we have an entirely peaceful and political path to restoring this Republic? I don't. I don't see it happening until a lot of us and a lot of them are dead.
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Offline radioman

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2012, 05:26:01 PM »
I'm of the opinion that if they throw out the mandate and keep the rest of the healthcare bill, we haven't accomplished too much.

I think that they can come back and issue a healthcare tax, by executive order, and fund it that way. It wouldn't be legal, but with this senate, there wouldn't be anybody to challenge it either. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe there is no way for them to get away with it, but they have been able to get away with just about everything they've tried so far, because we don't have anybody on our team to challenge them. All we do is just stand up and bloviate and whine, and then forget about it.

All of our elected officials have failed to hold them accountable for everything they've done.

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charlesoakwood

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Re: the theory that Obamacare is upheld 6-3
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2012, 06:10:32 PM »
I think the Left is blowing smoke up Roberts' ass hoping he'll take the bait -- yeah okay; mixed metaphors.
...
...

These metaphors may not be mixed if one considers
the baiting they have planned for us.