Author Topic: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States  (Read 33918 times)

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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #80 on: April 23, 2012, 06:51:08 AM »
Yeah, that's exactly what he was insinuating, and he was dead wrong, and he decided to make it an issue.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #81 on: April 23, 2012, 08:29:03 AM »
I can't and won't let it hang here.

I hope you leave this thread as an illustration of the true obstructionism of the soft and muddled middle.

We all offered this guy an opportunity to state his case. Even though he struck me as nothing more than a blog pimp I gave him kudos on his scribbling and encouraged him to expand a little bit. His piece had promise - in a vague sort of way. And I applaud optimism if it is truly that and not simple self-delusion. I wanted to see if he could differentiate between the two and I got my answer - no he can't.

Is it "gloom & doom" to state the facts (even if they're unpleasant)? No
Is it "gloom & doom" to warn people of impending danger? No
Is it "gloom & doom" to want to protect yourself and your family? Hell no!

This klown was given an opportunity to explain how we could dig our way out of this mess. He was advised that we needed specifics because platitudes - optimistic or otherwise - weren't going to cut it with this group. If he had anything he failed (miserably!) to deliver.

Instead he jumped to insult. Through insinuation and direct assertion he tried to place us out on the fringe and correspondingly (one could infer) him in the mainstream. He made blanket assumptions (you know what they say about people who assume) and then projected offensive conclusions based on his own preconceived notions. Sincere kudos go to Pandora who displayed tolerance above & beyond with him. When he short-circuited and became abusive I was sure that she was going to yank the plug on him. Instead she attempted to steer him back to a more productive path - which he steadfastly refused to do. "F" him.

The telling thing about this klown is that he pronounced his condemnation of our group....and then hung around to further insult us.  Way to show your superior POV amp!

So, happy days to you sunshine. Be of good cheer and good luck with your manure-spreading enterprise. The world needs klowns and fools to serve as cautionary tales for the rest of us. Oh, and don't let the door hit ya...

edit: altard-proofed

Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #82 on: April 23, 2012, 08:39:29 AM »
Well said 'Soup.

Anyone think-skinned enough to pull the plug on rational discussion and have to resort to altard-like insults and all it appeared he was trying to do was to draw people to his post.  Seriously, I cannot fathom how someone can espouse conservative principles on one hand and then condemn others for their views which essentially boil down to the preservation of their lives and way of life with the other.  Seriously, either a myopic mindset or a potted plant thing going on, which is it?

Oh well, whatever.  We'll keep marching forward.

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Predator Don

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #83 on: April 23, 2012, 09:09:09 AM »
Wow.

I certainly pray we don't have tshtf time in our future. I also don't believe in fairy tales, like we will all suddenly wake up from our slumber. It is not a plan of action, it resembles a hollow, shallow belief, like hope and change.

I also don't care if there are militants on the board, pacifists, or anyone inbetween . I enjoy it here because of like minds, but I also understand we will not agree on every point. It doesn't hurt mt feelings....I will not take my ball and go home. It is hard to learn, though, when you believe you have all the answers. I'm not into cult personalities.

Plus, there was no experiment gone wrong by allowing a blogger to blog. Nothing, I mean nothing, has succeeded in this country without ( I hate this word) failure......without "failing" or attempting to create, where would we be as a country. Don't stop expanding the horizons IDP.
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Offline AmericanPatriot

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #84 on: April 23, 2012, 09:18:21 AM »
This is a good board with good people.
We don't always agree but the respect for each other is there.
Even for me when I exhibit my stupidity for the whole world to see

Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2012, 09:24:23 AM »
Good point Don, we all learn by doing, and sometimes doing is failing, and I think IDP has attracted many more pluses than minuses so there should be no head hanging down on that score.  You are doing good IDP, don't stop.

And I echo AP's sentiment, we have a good group here and it is something we should all take some pride in.

 ::thumbsup::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2012, 09:40:56 AM »
This is a good board with good people.
We don't always agree but the respect for each other is there.
Even for me when I exhibit my stupidity for the whole world to see

If you should happen to say something stupid I don't doubt that there will be someone there to kindly point it out to you  ;D

And I would like to emphasize that we may be of accord at times (just as we may disagree) but screw the guy who claims that we are of one mindset. I like the group we have here - we come from all across the country, we have diverse backgrounds and experiences, and all have a yearning to make things better for ourselves and our families. I apologize to no one for myself or my friends here at It's About Liberty.

~AS~

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2012, 10:00:02 AM »
...screw the guy who claims that we are of one mindset....

Anyone who makes that claim has not bothered to look around here at the collection of people and opinions. It is a complete lack of respect to so carelessly draw a negative conclusion.

You have it exactly right a few posts up Soup...

This klown was given an opportunity to explain how we could dig our way out of this mess. He was advised that we needed specifics because platitudes - optimistic or otherwise - weren't going to cut it with this group. If he had anything he failed (miserably!) to deliver.

Instead he jumped to insult. Through insinuation and direct assertion he tried to place us out on the fringe and correspondingly (one could infer) him in the mainstream. He made blanket assumptions (you know what they say about people who assume) and then projected offensive conclusions based on his own preconceived notions.

I also commend Pandora for her patience and measured response, and you too Soup. Pan gave a new guy a chance to backtrack and correct himself, and you both set a proper expectation.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2012, 11:04:09 AM »
Good point Don, we all learn by doing, and sometimes doing is failing, and I think IDP has attracted many more pluses than minuses so there should be no head hanging down on that score.  You are doing good IDP, don't stop.

And I echo AP's sentiment, we have a good group here and it is something we should all take some pride in.

 ::thumbsup::

Indubitably so.
And tethering with another blog could be enriching. Onward and upward.

Offline Predator Don

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2012, 11:55:33 AM »
Good point Don, we all learn by doing, and sometimes doing is failing, and I think IDP has attracted many more pluses than minuses so there should be no head hanging down on that score.  You are doing good IDP, don't stop.

And I echo AP's sentiment, we have a good group here and it is something we should all take some pride in.

 ::thumbsup::

Indubitably so.
And tethering with another blog could be enriching. Onward and upward.



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I'm not always engulfed in scandals, but when I am, I make sure I blame others.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2012, 12:52:01 PM »
Man! I take a little break and look at all the fun I miss.


Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2012, 01:32:29 PM »
Man! I take a little break and look at all the fun I miss.



That'll teach ya!

 ;D
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Pandora

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #92 on: April 23, 2012, 01:40:39 PM »
Man! I take a little break and look at all the fun I miss.



That'll teach ya!

 ;D

That's what I wuz thinkin' .........
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2012, 01:43:26 PM »
Man! I take a little break and look at all the fun I miss.



That'll teach ya!

 ;D

That's what I wuz thinkin' .........

I thunk it fer ya!   :supercool:
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Pandora

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2012, 01:45:29 PM »
Man! I take a little break and look at all the fun I miss.



That'll teach ya!

 ;D

That's what I wuz thinkin' .........

I thunk it fer ya!   :supercool:

Such a mensch you are!

I'm sorry Weisshaupt missed out.  His responses would have been .... interesting ... to say the least.   ::stirpot::
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2012, 01:55:18 PM »
Man! I take a little break and look at all the fun I miss.



That'll teach ya!

 ;D

That's what I wuz thinkin' .........

I thunk it fer ya!   :supercool:

Such a mensch you are!

I'm sorry Weisshaupt missed out.  His responses would have been .... interesting ... to say the least.   ::stirpot::

Hmmm...

Well, we can still ask him what he would have said.

 ::popcorn::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2012, 02:31:18 PM »
Hmmm...

Well, we can still ask him what he would have said.

 ::popcorn::
Everyone here did fine without me, but since you asked..

I probably would have just asked him direct questions about his position ( acting like a liberal and refusing to justify your stance, get the liberal treatment. )

1) Given his History in Mass, does Romney have the required credibility and moral authority to demand the cutting of the entitlement state? Why do you feel so, with specific examples.
2) What in Romney's history leads you to believe that he has the required leadership abilities to sway pubic opinion towards cuts
3) You are correct that Social Security could be saved if the government was returned to its constitutional limits. However, I do not understand why we should bother.  What justifies keeping SS vs. other programs - or at all?

As far as the "we advocate violence" bit :

1) Isn't all government power based on violence or threat of violence?  If that government is using that power without the consent of the governed, in excess of the authority given to it, what responses do you feel  are justified.  What responses did the founders of our nation feel were justified?
2) Is advocating the use of violence to defend one's property or family from those who openly declare that they will use violence as a means to harm  them, immoral or wrong?
3) describe under what circumstances (if any)  you feel a violence is warranted?

Jefferson said we had a DUTY to throw down a tyrannical government, and a right to defend ourselves from it.  I think we are a long way from sending  an army  marching on Washington DC. Like the men of Gondor we wait within our walls for the enemy to come to us, and defend those walls we will.  The peaceful process can continue, right up till they are on my doorstep. Then Violence will be used. I don't advocate its use- I am FORCED TO ITS USE by the threat of violence upon me and my family if I do not give up my inalienable rights and bow before my betters.  Liberty or Death.

AMPU obviously thinks that Romney will prevent them from arriving at his door, but refused to provide details  to why. Those of us on the other side recognize it for what it is - the same denial and normalcy bias that afflicted us before we stood and forced ourselves to look upon the unpleasant truth. I respect that APMU, IDP and others still have hope and faith that Romney will prove to be Aragorn and not the Steward Denathor, or worse, the White Wizard Traitor Sarumon.  

Such a beleif is not silly - the  Divine will that has protected America throughout  our history ( and yes, his hand in events is clear)  may very well again produce a savior from the North, arriving in the hour of need  - one who can turn the tide and produce a peace. However, that same history indicates that such divine intervention  rarely occurs though our elections or politics, but instead frequents the battle field. And ultimately that is the point: The situation we are in will REQUIRE A MIRACLE to resolve. One of my friends jokes that "some people's TEOTWAKI plan is to be raptured."  Those  of us who tend to  deserve,  expect and/or  ask less of God find that while we may hope for the best, the time has come to expect and prepare for  the worst.


« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 04:17:13 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Predator Don

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2012, 02:52:50 PM »
At some point in time, we can't look for someone to save us....we will need to save ourselves. Maybe AMPU didn't want to deal with the " save yourself" part of the equation.

And without being offensive, I believe it is a copout to think "the rapture" is a plan. It isn't. Reminds me of an old joke I've heard many times.

There was a flood warning and people were to evacuate. One man refused, telling all that God would deliver. As the water reached his porch, a boat came by to pick him up, but he refused, proclaiming God would deliver. Now he is perched on his roof, as the Coast Guard swept in to rescue him, he wouldn't budge, again stating God would deliver. As he sat on the peak of his roof, a helicopter made one last attempt to take him to safety. He refused, again.....God would deliver.

The man drowned. At the pearly gates, the man meets God. Perplexed, he asks God why he allowed him to drown? God states, I sent you a boat, the Coast Guard and a helicopter, what else am I supposed to do?
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Offline Libertas

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #98 on: April 23, 2012, 02:53:37 PM »
"Those  of us who tend to  deserve,  expect and/or  ask less of God find that while we may hope for the best, the time has come to expect and prepare for  the worst."

That's always been my philosophy!

 ::thumbsup::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: AMPU - An Obama Second Term Means a Bankrupt United States
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2012, 07:32:21 PM »
The man drowned. At the pearly gates, the man meets God. Perplexed, he asks God why he allowed him to drown? God states, I sent you a boat, the Coast Guard and a helicopter, what else am I supposed to do?

God helps those that help themselves. I am not bible scholar, but I seem to remember that the bible gices an exact number for the people to be saved in the rapture, and that number was in the 10's of thousands.  That sounds like the right number- that out of 7 billion people there are 10,000 really good souls able to keep the Christian faith perfectly.  I do know I am not one of them. Guess I have to go with plan B.