Author Topic: France's HARD left turn  (Read 6466 times)

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Offline BMG

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France's HARD left turn
« on: April 22, 2012, 03:22:11 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9219770/Francois-Hollande-beats-Nicolas-Sarkozy-in-presidential-election-first-round.html

So I have to wonder since Sarkozy is supposed to be the conservative in the race (of course we all know that is not at all true - the guy is a flaming socialist - just not as hard core as the other guy!), will the leftists here trot this out and scream about how this proves that Obama is going to win in November? You know, citing the hard left turn people are taking abroad as somehow being indicative of what's to come here?

I bet they do bring up.
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charlesoakwood

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 03:32:40 PM »

Bet the "minority" turnout is extreme.

Offline Glock32

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012, 03:34:18 PM »
You know, in the Dark Ages they were convinced that the cure to various ailments was bloodletting. When this caused the patient to worsen due to the effects of anemia, they took it as proof that he needed yet more bloodletting.

The European social welfare state, with its promises of a Free Lunch, is going to die very hard. We're looking at the precursors for the next world war, probably.
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Offline BMG

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012, 03:51:11 PM »
We're looking at the precursors for the next world war, probably.

I believe you're probably right about that Glock. The trouble will be, will the US be part of the cure at that point, or part of the cancer? WWI and WWII we were part of the cure. That's not such a certainty now days. We'll find out in November I guess. Even still if Romney wins he's really not much better than Obama anyway. An establishment Republican is nothing more than a Progressive in Republican garb. He isn't as extreme as Obama...but the basic template is still under the empty suit. My only real hope is that enough other good Republicans are elected in the house, senate and on the local level around the nation to keep him on the proper course.

Bet the "minority" turnout is extreme.

I read a few days ago that the muslims in France were looking to spank Sarkozy hard for not coddling them enough. So I think the reality of your observation is quite correct CO.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

charlesoakwood

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 03:58:56 PM »

Maybe a nice WWIII will allow Romney to find himself.
Let's hope he finds himself able.


Offline trapeze

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 04:20:46 PM »
Europe is going down. A further bend to the left will only hasten France's demise. And France will help push the rest of the Eurozone into the toilet.

They would still end up in the toilet but this will send them into it all that much quicker.

And with that, a global crisis...one that will affect, duh, the whole world. Yes, even China and India.

It remains to be seen which country will emerge from it first and strongest but I believe it will be the USA.

In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline BMG

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 04:36:49 PM »
I agree with ya Trap. I think this cements the death of the Eurozone. Instead of it being a few years from now and with only a 75% chance of failing, I think this makes it sometime in the next year or two with a 90% chance of failing.

I'm not quite as optimistic that the US will come out on top however. For that to happen we have to get rid of our socialist problem here first...and that is much larger than just Obama and a few senators. At this point I'd be betting that China would come out on top frankly.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 07:53:01 PM by BMG »
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline trapeze

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2012, 04:44:28 PM »
I agree with ya Trap. I think is cements the death of the Eurozone. Instead of it being a few years from now and with only a 75% chance of failing, I think this makes it sometime in the next year or two with a 90% chance of failing.

I'm not quite as optimistic that the US will come out on top however. For that to happen we have to get rid of our socialist problem here first...and that is much larger than just Obama and a few senators. At this point I'd be betting that China would come out on top frankly.

China is a fraud. Trust me on that. It will collapse harder and faster than you might expect. Despite the handicaps that the USA has imposed on itself we are still the strongest nation in the world.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline AlanS

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2012, 07:10:25 PM »
Despite the handicaps that the USA has imposed on itself we are still the strongest nation in the world.

Just think of what we could be without the leaches!!
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charlesoakwood

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2012, 07:48:30 PM »

They are also in dispute about OPEN BORDERS.  France and Germany want to
be able to close their border for special occasions, occasions such as the Libyan
fiasco.  During Obama's excursion Libyans were expatriating to the islands then
through Italy up into the rest of Europe and the Danes shut the door, sealed
their border and shut the door.  This is anti-Eurozone and Brussels doesn't like it.

Offline BMG

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2012, 07:50:13 PM »
China is a fraud. Trust me on that. It will collapse harder and faster than you might expect. Despite the handicaps that the USA has imposed on itself we are still the strongest nation in the world.

Well, here's to hoping that is the case Trap!  ::beertoast::
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline trapeze

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 01:00:30 AM »
China is a fraud. Trust me on that. It will collapse harder and faster than you might expect. Despite the handicaps that the USA has imposed on itself we are still the strongest nation in the world.

Well, here's to hoping that is the case Trap!  ::beertoast::

Here is an article that provides a perspective that I hadn't even considered about China's vulnerability:

Quote
Over the past 30 years, China’s total fertility rate—the number of children a woman can expect to have during her lifetime—has fallen from 2.6, well above the rate needed to hold a population steady, to 1.56, well below that rate (see table). Because very low fertility can become self-reinforcing, with children of one-child families wanting only one child themselves, China now probably faces a long period of ultra-low fertility, regardless of what happens to its one-child policy.

The government has made small adjustments to the policy (notably by allowing an only child who is married to another only child to have more than one child) and may adapt it further. But for now it is firmly in place, and very low fertility rates still prevail, especially in the richest parts of the country. Shanghai reported fertility of just 0.6 in 2010—probably the lowest level anywhere in the world. According to the UN’s population division, the nationwide fertility rate will continue to decline, reaching 1.51 in 2015-20. In contrast, America’s fertility rate is 2.08 and rising.

The difference between 1.56 and 2.08 does not sound large. But over the long term it has a huge impact on society. Between now and 2050 China’s population will fall slightly, from 1.34 billion in 2010 to just under 1.3 billion in 2050. This assumes that fertility starts to recover. If it stays low, the population will dip below 1 billion by 2060. In contrast, America’s population is set to rise by 30% in the next 40 years. China will hit its peak population in 2026. No one knows when America will hit its population peak.

The differences between the two countries are even more striking if you look at their average ages. In 1980 China’s median (the age at which half the population is younger, half older) was 22. That is characteristic of a young developing country. It is now 34.5, more like a rich country and not very different from America’s, which is 37. But China is ageing at an unprecedented pace. Because fewer children are being born as larger generations of adults are getting older, its median age will rise to 49 by 2050, nearly nine years more than America at that point. Some cities will be older still. The Shanghai Population and Family Planning Committee says that more than a third of the city’s population will be over 60 by 2020.

This trend will have profound financial and social consequences. Most obviously, it means China will have a bulge of pensioners before it has developed the means of looking after them. Unlike the rest of the developed world, China will grow old before it gets rich. Currently, 8.2% of China’s total population is over 65. The equivalent figure in America is 13%. By 2050, China’s share will be 26%, higher than in America.


In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Online Pandora

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 01:07:19 AM »
Quote
China will have a bulge of pensioners before it has developed the means of looking after them. Unlike the rest of the developed world, China will grow old before it gets rich. Currently, 8.2% of China’s total population is over 65. The equivalent figure in America is 13%. By 2050, China’s share will be 26%, higher than in America.

Long before the 2050 time of pensioner-bulge,  China's majority male population will be restive and resentful of the lack of possible female mates.  These excess of truculet males are known as "cannon fodder".
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charlesoakwood

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 01:09:30 AM »

I'll read it again but my first thought is
                                                            THEY HAVE NO WOMEN.

They manipulated nature to ensure a vigorous workforce but overlooked the unintended consequences.

Offline trapeze

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2012, 01:11:25 AM »
And then, if there wasn't enough to worry about, there is Spain...

Quote
Spain's predicament is agonizing. To borrow at reasonable interest rates requires convincing financial markets that huge deficits are being reduced. But cutting spending and raising taxes risk deepening the slump, widening the deficit and fostering more street protests. The dilemma is plain: Austerity may produce more austerity, while the absence of austerity may produce a crisis of confidence. In addition, Spain's banks need more capital. Who will provide that?

Previously, Greece, Portugal and Ireland succumbed to similar predicaments. After interest rates soared on their bonds, they had to be rescued by loans from other European countries, the European Central Bank and the IMF. The trouble is that Spain's economy is twice as big as Greece's, Ireland's and Portugal's combined. And financially precarious Italy has an economy that's 50 percent larger than Spain's. Is there enough money to bail out these countries?

In truth, no one has a neat solution to end Europe's financial nightmare. Maybe Spain and Italy will escape calamity. Or perhaps more last-minute loans will buy time until the rest of the world economy revives and pulls Europe from the abyss.

Or perhaps not.

The weaker Europe becomes, the more it may drag down the rest of the world through three channels: damaged confidence and investment, fewer imports, and less credit to businesses and households. Remember: Europe is about one-fifth of the world economy, roughly equal with the United States. The 27 members of the European Union are the world's largest importer (excluding exports to each other), just ahead of the United States. And European banks operate globally.

The foreboding is undisguised. "For the last six months, the world economy has been on ... a roller coaster," Olivier Blanchard, the IMF's chief economist, said last week. "One has the feeling that, at any moment, things could well get very bad again."
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Sectionhand

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2012, 04:13:58 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9219770/Francois-Hollande-beats-Nicolas-Sarkozy-in-presidential-election-first-round.html

So I have to wonder since Sarkozy is supposed to be the conservative in the race ...  will the leftists here trot this out and scream about how this proves that Obama is going to win in November?

I bet they do bring up.

Doubtful that the screamimg will last long . A quick reversal back to the socialist bent will hasten a european economic disaster ... hopefully before November . World markets are already jittery about the prospect of a return to the same old sh*t .

( I've been saying "sh*t" a lot in my posts this morning ... Must reflect my world view ... )

Offline Libertas

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2012, 07:39:28 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9219770/Francois-Hollande-beats-Nicolas-Sarkozy-in-presidential-election-first-round.html

So I have to wonder since Sarkozy is supposed to be the conservative in the race ...  will the leftists here trot this out and scream about how this proves that Obama is going to win in November?

I bet they do bring up.

Doubtful that the screamimg will last long . A quick reversal back to the socialist bent will hasten a european economic disaster ... hopefully before November . World markets are already jittery about the prospect of a return to the same old sh*t .

( I've been saying "sh*t" a lot in my posts this morning ... Must reflect my world view ... )

Have Germany go more left as well and the chute to hell will really be well greased!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2012, 07:41:41 AM »
Quote
China will have a bulge of pensioners before it has developed the means of looking after them. Unlike the rest of the developed world, China will grow old before it gets rich. Currently, 8.2% of China’s total population is over 65. The equivalent figure in America is 13%. By 2050, China’s share will be 26%, higher than in America.

Long before the 2050 time of pensioner-bulge,  China's majority male population will be restive and resentful of the lack of possible female mates.  These excess of truculet males are known as "cannon fodder".

I would wager the ChiCom's will go to war before going under.  Plus, it seems to be in the Chinese DNA to go through epic upheavals and long slow recoveries.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline BMG

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2012, 08:18:04 AM »
Le Pen shocks France as far right hits historic heights

Woke up to an interesting twist over there in France this morning...

Quote
Far-right National Front candidate Marine Le Pen obtained a surprising 18% of the vote in the first-round of France’s presidential election Sunday night. But who will those votes go to in the second round?

Looks like about 18% of the voters over there in France actually don't want to commit economic and cultural suicide.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” 
- Patrick Henry

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates."
- Tacitus

Offline Libertas

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Re: France's HARD left turn
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2012, 08:59:37 AM »
Le Pen shocks France as far right hits historic heights

Woke up to an interesting twist over there in France this morning...

Quote
Far-right National Front candidate Marine Le Pen obtained a surprising 18% of the vote in the first-round of France’s presidential election Sunday night. But who will those votes go to in the second round?

Looks like about 18% of the voters over there in France actually don't want to commit economic and cultural suicide.



Still, she has the Perot/Paul role, would enough on the center-right bail on Sarkozy to support her?  Will enough centrists wake the hell up and vote for her or break left for the socialist?  Tall order, but who knows?
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.