Topic: PaulBots

[Libertas]

I think we should leave this as a general thread to chronicle the goings on of our Libertarian friends who seem to be a little more action-oriented this time around...could be a case of frustration born of poor past performance combined with a perceived weak/Ruling Class option in the form of Mitt Romney invigorating the PaulBots, but whatever the reason keeping tabs on this development seems warranted.  Minnesota has their state convention coming up and I am curious as to rumors swilling about some district conventions having been taken over by Paul people and national rumors concerning an open convention in Tampa.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/13/mitt-romney-supporters-ron-paul-partisans-brawl-at-oklahoma-gop-convention/

[AmericanPatriot]

I have been reading this from a different viewpoint.
I have read that the Romney supporters are the ones doing the shouting, that they are taking votes and impounding them to count later.

The idea of one man, one vote and my vote counts is being taken from all of us by chicanery of the Republican apparatchiks as well as the Dems

In a repeat of Iowa, where a Mitt Romney State Chairman held up accurate results of the vote for weeks, the Arizona State Convention has gone into overtime. Ballots are supposedly locked up, waiting to be counted “tomorrow.” But citizens and journalists on the floor had no trouble discerning that Ron Paul forces had seized the day and if the vote is fair, he will likely win the majority of delegates from Arizona to the Republican National Convention in Tampa.
If the victory in Arizona proves true, and remember, there is a tantalizing and suspicious delay, then Ron Paul will likely win the right to be nominated on the floor of the Republican National Convention in Tampa. It isn’t over yet, there are some Ron Paul states that have been won at the County or District level, that still need the formality of winning the state convention, but barring parliamentary jujitsu, it is on track to happen. It is big news.
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The past weekend began with infuriating news for the Ronulans, from Norman, Oklahoma, where Santorum and Romney forces united to shut out the Ron Paul people at the Oklahoma State GOP Convention. By some estimates Ron Paul supporters were a majority on the floor of the convention and thus should have walked away with another win. Others, basing the vote on an attempt to elect Ron Paul supporter, Richard Engle as national committeeman, suggested that they actually accounted for 48.2% of the state convention vote.
.

Said Engle, “Under a one man, one vote scenario, I had a majority. This was acknowledged as the roll call came in from each county. When the program to apportion the votes was done 48.2% was reported. I am challenging the results and calling for a recount as the difference between victory and defeat is less than 2% as we have proof of prior mis-reporting of county numbers as well as a history of making rounding errors. Regardless, the actual majority of Delegates did support me. There is no way of knowing if that directly represents a majority for Dr. Paul.”
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And we may never know. Frightened that the Ron Paul delegates had become the majority in the convention, the establishment GOP, running the event, used its own errors in the Credentials Report to stall the convention for several hours. On the premise that the time for the convention hall rental was coming to an end they refused to hold a final vote on credentials or to acknowledge the calls for a roll call vote on the Delegates and Alternates as required under the rules.
.

Said Engle, “They played fast and loose with the rules. If they had not used a roll call vote on my race I would have won and then they used a voice vote on 50 members of the Delegation and refused a roll call vote at that point. The chair ruled that a roll call was not required when the party rule was shown him in plain English. When the ruling of the chair was challenged he called for a voice vote and proceeded to rule that his decision was upheld despite the overwhelming sound of Delegates against him.”
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The final slate was 62% Romney, 22% Santorum, 4% Gingrich and 4% Ron Paul. A devastating defeat for the majority.
.
Paul delegates who had give up weeks and months of their lives to get elected as delegates at the precinct and county levels were scandalized. Taking a chapter from Missouri, they tried to convene outside the venue in the parking lot, claiming a plurality and calling to do things in order. But was it too late? Challenges will surely follow.
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Meanwhile, in Phoenix, Arizona, cocky Romney forces led by Nathan Sproul saw defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. Ironically, the Ron Paul forces came to the state GOP convention to play nice. They offered a deal. ”You know our knack for organizing?” They said, ” You know we have the numbers? Why don’t we make sure there are no surprises and nothing embarrassing. Your candidate has the nomination, we will give you 50% plus one of the delegation to Tampa, that gives you the majority, and let us have a nice delegation of the leftovers for our man too.”
But no. The Mitt Romney forces insisted on scorched earth. ”You can have one,” they said.
The Romney team then proceeded to fall apart. It was so bad that Ron Paul operative Shawn Dow couldn’t have given them a victory if he had wanted it. Said a Ron Paul staffer, “No matter how we tried, the Romney people wouldn’t move off their one delegate offer. We had no choice. We had to win.”
Sydney Hay, a Ron Paul spokesman who is sometimes seen on the Bill Mahr Show and once won a congressional nomination in Arizona , gave a positive, conciliatory speech to the convention. And Josh Romney was well received by all. And then, in a moment poorly handled, he returned to the microphone to pitch his daddy’s green ballot, with the Romney slate.
Yes, indeed, at that point there were boos but they came from the whole floor, even from Romney supporters who had worked hard to get their names considered as delegates. No one was in the mood to let outsiders dictate a list of his friends who should go to Tampa. It was yet another example of a poorly run machine. The Romney kid should never have been given such an assignment.
“Why make Josh Romney get involved in a precinct level fight for delegates?” asked Sydney Hay. “Here was a presidential candidate’s son down in the gutter in a fight. They never should have put him in this place.”
Ron Paul took 11 of 18 delegates decided in the district caucuses. It was the “at large” delegates that were left in the air. The Romney forces stalled for hours, hoping to outlast the Ronulans who stayed put as Romney delegates, disgusted with their own organization, finally began to drift away.
In a last ditch effort the Romney forces tried to declare that there was now no quorum and other motions were offered. When the vote for the “at large” delegates was finally taken it was sealed, under lock and key, with the promise that “tomorrow we will count those and sort things out.”
Uh huh.
Finally, the lights were turned out and the Ronulans were sent home, exhausted and weary, unaware that they had probably just made history and put their man into nomination at Tampa. For the Romneyites, the unthinkable had happened. It is not done yet, but Ron Paul may very well see his name entered into nomination in Tampa.
This last weekend was perhaps the most mean spirited of all. One has to wonder, if Mitt Romney has won the nomination, why can’t they communicate that message to the state conventions? The fact is that something bigger is happening than the nomination of a candidate. The Republican Party is being remade in the image of Ron Paul, the Thomas Jefferson of our generation. The Ronulan invasion continues. It is not a conspiracy. It is organic. It is natural. And it cannot be stopped.
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Update: Friends in Oklahoma insist that the convention which continued on the parking lot outside was indeed legal, had the quorum needed, and resulted in another win for Ron Paul. I hope they are right and we need to support that process legally and follow the challenges involved.http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2012/05/14/ron-paul-arizona-upset-win-is-game-changer/quot

I am not a Paulbot, BTW

[Janny]

American Patriot, I don't even understand that link of yours that talks about Arizona. Ron Paul performed extremely poor in the Arizona Republican primary. What the hell are they talking about? That looks like BS paultard propaganda to me. PAUL isn't entitled to any delegates from Arizona. My state is winner take all.

[Libertas]

Oh I know you're not a PaulBot AP!

I don't know how things are done in every state and in every precinct and district, I can only speak for mine that seemed to work properly without gimmicks, delays or fraud.  At the precinct and district meeting we had our straw poll for POTUS and Santorum won practically unanimously at the one and with a clear majority at the other.  At the district meeting there were attempts by Paul forces to amend rules and make it easier for Paul supporters to dominate the voting of delegates.  Everything was left as is, declare your desire to be a delegate and each was given a minute at the podium for a quick shout out as to why they want to be a delegate.  It was pretty easy to shake out the pretenders because most people either included a plug for the candidate they wanted or they listed the top issues to them, the Paul people tended to stay low profile and gave generic responses.  In the past their outspokenness identified them and it appears they have been mounting a quiet insurgency inside the GOP.

So from my perspective one man one vote seemed to work and I think our district sent mostly solid conservatives, there may be a Paul supporter or two in there, maybe a couple more as alternates, but a general uprising at the levels suggested in this article I am not seeing.  Plus this Wead is a self-declared Paul supporter so he may be injecting a lot more wishful thinking into events than actually exists...it wouldn't be the first time Paul supporters have gone overboard with their predictions and statements.

I just don't see a hung convention...could Paul supporters cause a stink one way or another?  Sure, and they probably will, but if there is no proof of chicanery, it's going to look like sour grapes again.

Like I said, Mitt ought to give Ron Treasury or something and make this all go away.  But for whatever reason he can't or won't or Ron isn't taking his calls.

So we are stuck with this theater of the absurd...

 

[AmericanPatriot]

I don't know about Arizona so I'll have to trust you on that one.
Unless AZ is similar to Pa in some way.
Pa has a "beauty contest" but this has nothing to do with delegates.

The article seems to say that the delegates are picked at a state convention to go to the nationals.
It also seems to say that some delegates are picked at district caucuses.

Ron Paul took 11 of 18 delegates decided in the district caucuses.  It was the “at large” delegates that were left in the air.

I am confused.
I would think Doug Wead would also know what he's talking about. Even though he's a Paul supporter
He's been around

[Libertas]

American Patriot, I don't even understand that link of yours that talks about Arizona. Ron Paul performed extremely poor in the Arizona Republican primary. What the hell are they talking about? That looks like BS paultard propaganda to me. PAUL isn't entitled to any delegates from Arizona. My state is winner take all.

Good point, plus the GOP is prone to self-inflicted wounds if it a) does nothing to fight open primary laws and b) allows delegates to remain uncommitted.

[IronDioPriest]

I think each person must make a choice as to whether it is worth it to encourage Paul's supporters for the sake of undermining the GOP establishment. Honestly, I can see the value of doing it, and I can see the harm in it as far as the risk of another Obama term if the GOP is in chaos over the struggle between the establishment and some kind of justified hostile takeover by the libertarian wing.

I must say though that knowing some Paulites in my local GOP, there are many radical people with radical ideas who populate the core of this "Give-me-Ron-Paul-or-give-me-death" movement. They may succeed in upsetting the GOP applecart for whatever that may be worth and whatever good it may do, but the vacuum may be filled with 911 truthers, jihad apologists, pro-druggers, anti-Christers, and blame-America-firsters.

[Janny]

I don't know about Arizona so I'll have to trust you on that one.
Unless AZ is similar to Pa in some way.
Pa has a "beauty contest" but this has nothing to do with delegates.

The article seems to say that the delegates are picked at a state convention to go to the nationals.
It also seems to say that some delegates are picked at district caucuses.

Ron Paul took 11 of 18 delegates decided in the district caucuses.  It was the “at large” delegates that were left in the air.

I am confused.
I would think Doug Wead would also know what he's talking about. Even though he's a Paul supporter
He's been around

Well, maybe Doug could explain what he is talking about a bit better. The Paulbots are in no position to "demand" anything from the AZ GOP. Romney got over 47% of the primary vote. As far as I understand, he "owns" ALL the delegates, but apparently there is some controversy about it, because of what the RNC "allows" us to do in AZ.

In any case, it's moot now, because Paul just dropped out today. That may not stop his more zealous "followers" from continuing to cause trouble, though.

[IronDioPriest]

...Paul just dropped out today. That may not stop his more zealous "followers" from continuing to cause trouble, though.

I think you can take that to the bank.

[charlesoakwood]

There are three unsaid certainties unmentioned:

1. The RNC establishment has lied and finagled, as in Iowa with Santorum and have
    been caught a couple of other times this cycle. Fool me once.

2.  He's not called Romney the pious for a reason.

3.  Paul and his minions know the election rules better than any of the RNC people
     and they will use them to their advantage.  They could explain the rules to
     TPOS Rove.

 

[Janny]

There are three unsaid certainties unmentioned:

1. The RNC establishment has lied and finagled, as in Iowa with Santorum and have
    been caught a couple of other times this cycle. Fool me once.

2.  He's not called Romney the pious for a reason.

3.  Paul and his minions know the election rules better than any of the RNC people
     and they will use them to their advantage.  They could explain the rules to
     TPOS Rove.

 

Did you mean "He's not called Romney the pious for NO reason?"

I don't know about Romney's minions having any scruples when it comes to following rules, the way they spam on line polls to create an illusion of massive support for the crazy uncle that doesn't exist. Knowing the rules and following them are two different things.

[charlesoakwood]

Did you mean "He's not called Romney the pious for NO reason?"

For a reason, ..."not for no reason" is a double negative.

[Janny]

Did you mean "He's not called Romney the pious for NO reason?"

For a reason, ..."not for no reason" is a double negative.

No, that would not be a double negative.



Your meaning eludes me. Is Romney pious, or not?

[Predator Don]

Well I'm scared...I understood what he meant....

[Libertas]

...Paul just dropped out today. That may not stop his more zealous "followers" from continuing to cause trouble, though.

I think you can take that to the bank.

Ta da!

Of course, the Ron Paulians have already disputed this breaking news.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/ron-paul-out-will-not-compete-in-remaining-states/

[Libertas]

Well I'm scared...I understood what he meant....

 

[AmericanPatriot]

Actually, I don't think he dropped out.
He stopped actively campaigning in those states

I believe he is continuing his delegate strategy

[IronDioPriest]

Actually, I don't think he dropped out.
He stopped actively campaigning in those states

I believe he is continuing his delegate strategy

That looks to be about what it is. He's ended campaigning in primary states - period. That doesn't mean his people will stop trying to gain delegate seats. It also doesn't necessarily mean he will stop campaigning in caucus states.

But I think the net effect will, in the end, be a Romney nomination. Mittster will get enough delegates to garner the nomination. An open convention just isn't realistic. It would seem that Paul's strategy is to work realistically with what he has to increase and hold influence over the party. I think that's a good thing when all is said and done, although there is a strong, top-down "America is the problem" current running through his constituency that I do not like. Their "Leave the Arabs and Muslims alone and they'll be nice to us" bullsh*t is just a deal breaker for me, and that's all there is to it.

Why does the one man who seems to have the ability to reorient people around constitutional ideals have to be so damned unacceptable in such an important area?

[AmericanPatriot]

I know what you're saying, IDP.

Many of his supporters are his worst enemy.
Here is an official campaign statement about this:

http://iroots.org/2012/05/15/ron-paul-campaign-official-statement-on-delegate-strategy/

BREAKING NEWS. This is an email from the Ron Paul campaign just released by Jesse Benton.
 
Every day, I see firsthand how humbled and encouraged Dr. Paul is to have the enthusiastic support of so many who are committed to revitalizing our country.
 
Let me be very clear. Dr. Paul is NOT dropping out or suspending his campaign.
 
As Dr. Paul has previously stated, he is in this race all the way to the Republican National Convention in Tampa this August.
 
And he is deeply grateful for every resource he has been entrusted with to run an historic campaign that continues to defy all expectations.
 
Looking ahead, our campaign must honor that trust by maximizing our resources to ensure the greatest possible impact at the National Convention.
 
So while our campaign is no longer investing in the remaining primary states, we will continue to run strong programs at District and State Conventions to win more delegates and alternate delegates to the National Convention.
 
To this end, our campaign has several positive and realistic goals:
 
1) Having recently WON Maine, we believe we can win several more states.
 2) We will win party leadership positions at both the state and national levels.
 3) We will continue to grow our already substantial total of delegates.
 
We will head to Tampa with a solid group of delegates. Several hundred will be bound to Dr. Paul, and several hundred more, although bound to Governor Romney or other candidates, will be Ron Paul supporters.
 
Unfortunately, barring something very unforeseen, our delegate total will not be strong enough to win the nomination. Governor Romney is now within 200 delegates of securing the party’s nod. However, our delegates can still make a major impact at the National Convention and beyond.

All delegates will be able to vote on party rules and allow us to shape the process for future liberty candidates.
 
We are in an excellent position to make sure the Republican Party adds solid liberty issues to the GOP Platform, which our delegates will be directly positioned to approve. Our campaign is presently working to get several items up for consideration, including monetary policy reform, prohibitions on indefinite detention, and Internet freedom.
 
Finally, by sending a large, respectful, and professional delegation to Tampa, we will show the party and the country that not only is our movement growing and here to stay, but that the future belongs to us.
 
Dr. Paul will begin this new phase of the campaign this Friday by speaking and holding several events at the Minnesota State Convention. He has also recently accepted an invitation to speak at the Texas Convention, and we are busy scheduling appearances around other State Conventions later this month and into June.
 
As Dr. Paul stated in his message yesterday, this fight is NOT over. We will continue fighting and expanding, and “we will not stop until we have restored what once made America the greatest country in human history.”
 
But for Dr. Paul’s efforts in the remaining State Conventions to be successful, and to ensure we get as many Ron Paul delegates to Tampa as we can, he needs you to continue standing with him.

Along those lines, as you probably already know, the grassroots are holding a Money Bomb on Thursday, May 17. Any money raised from that Money Bomb will go toward winning delegates and finalizing our plans for Tampa.

As those plans for the National Convention come together, we will make sure all of our delegates, whether bound or unbound, get the information and aid they need.
 
Your support on May 17 will also help us reach more Americans with the solutions we know can restore our nation. Each person we add to our cause strengthens our movement for the critical work that awaits us beyond Tampa.
 
Dr. Paul, John Tate, myself, and the entire campaign staff know what incredible sacrifices have been made by each of our supporters.
 
Thank you for all of your hard work and your dedication to liberty. Together, we will champion Ron Paul and his message in Tampa, and we will lay the groundwork for future victories.
 
Jesse Benton, Chief Strategist
 May 15, 2012

[IronDioPriest]

...Many of his supporters are his worst enemy....

It's not just his supporters though, it's him. They're following his lead. He openly blames America and American foreign policy for the phenomenon of Jihad, and places the Palestinians and Israel on equal moral footing. That is so historically ignorant and defiant of common sense in such an important area. That one thing takes him out of consideration for me more than anything else, aside from his persona and personality deficit that I think cannot win a national election.