Author Topic: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender  (Read 2364 times)

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Offline Glock32

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I was perusing some articles from PJ Media and came across this one.  A reader responded and made a point that we have discussed to the nth degree around here, and made the point so well that I think it bears quoting here. That point is that the same old, same old milquetoast behavior of the Republican establishment is not only impotent in the face of Leftist aggression, but it positively encourages and validates it.  This is what irks me every time "our side" comes out for the hand wringing and let-cooler-heads-prevail nonsense whenever one of our own has been just a bit too effective at hitting back at the Left. The most recent example is the conspicuous repudiation of the reporter Munro, for having the temerity to ask a legitimate question of a dictatorial asshat.

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UPDATE: A reader emails:

    For years, Democrats have had an Alinsky-driven “anything goes” mindset. The Activist Left stages violent protests, demonstrations at private homes, vandalism, voter intimidation, and now SWATing… and the Institutional Left runs interference. This is how Brett Kimberlin is out of jail, why Bill Ayers has tenure, and how the New Black Panther Party got their charges dropped.

    Republicans, at least the Old Guard, responded by saying that “we’re better than that”. And you know what? Being better than that has not only helped the Left immensely over the years, it’s legitimized those tactics. Part of what makes these ethical lines work is a kind of Mutually Assured Destruction. Hitting below the belt doesn’t help if the other immediately responds in kind. It’s a zero-sum escalation, so you just don’t go there. It’s only when you know you can cross the line with impunity that you get tempted.

    What we see with the new generation is a willingness to imitate the most effective tactics of the Left. Many of us are former lefties who learned from the pros and then switched sides. The rest of use are young and don’t see the point of playing Charlie Brown and the football. What made Andrew Breitbart so terrifying to the Left isn’t that he did anything new, it’s that they’d never been on the receiving end of it before. On one hand, it’s horrible that our politics includes tactics like these at all. On the other hand, if they’re going to be used anyway by the lefties, we might as well fight fire with fire. The gripping hand is that responding in kind robs these tactics of long-term effectiveness and in the long run helps to re-establish ethical norms.

Link: http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/145121/
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Online Pandora

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 11:13:10 PM »
Quote
On one hand, it’s horrible that our politics includes tactics like these at all. On the other hand, if they’re going to be used anyway by the lefties, we might as well fight fire with fire.

Ooo baby!  I've got a flamethrower I've been keeping on simmer that wants to tango!

I've also been waiting for Levin to come back from wherever he's been for a week to see what he had to say about the fckstick in Chief, his illegal amnesty, and Neil Munro, and he didn't disappoint.  He stood right with Munro and called the rest of the spineless, lapdog media several appropriate names.

The moderates and the Left on my local forum have been having shtfits over the term "sodomy lobby" coined by one of our Bible-believing buddies to describe the homosexuals and their militant agenda.  FIRE!

WAR.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 11:30:27 PM by Pandora »
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charlesoakwood

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 11:27:43 PM »

WAR.
                  _Andrew Breitbart   


nsfw:
         Andrew Breitbart - War

   

Online Pandora

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 11:29:49 PM »
Precisely.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Glock32

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 11:48:39 PM »
"War."

That really does say it all.  That's the realization that has been reached by the new breed of conservatives, and it's the realization that separates us from the staid, fossilized old guard of the GOP.

I used to think the Left were simply people I disagreed with. But at some point, during W's administration probably, they revealed the true extent of their ideology and the -- quite frankly, disturbing -- degree of pragmatism with which they were willing to pursue it. It all really crystallized once they thought they had finally gotten their Strong Man into office and the time for pretense was at last over.

So yes, I came to realize it's a war. It's a war that has been waged for a long time already, one that we didn't begin, but by God it's one we must finish.  These aren't some sort of parliamentary "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition", these are radical Marxists who aim to subject us to the same fate that has befallen 100 million already. So yes, it's a war. It's a war in every respect but the most literal, and I have little doubt that part is coming too.

War!
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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 12:09:23 AM »
Breitbart.  War.  He didn't say it loudly or aggressively; he said it, after a pause, unexpectedly, like .... "boo".

Because he got it, he managed to convey everything there was to say, everything you wrote, Glock, in that one word and in the impudent way he said it; it has TONE.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2012, 08:03:27 AM »
More tone please, the Old Guard can join the fight or be fragged, I don't care which at this point.

Time for more George S. Patton's and less George B. McClellan's!

WAR
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Offline warpmine

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2012, 05:33:30 AM »

http://washingtonexaminer.com/federal-court-finds-obama-appointees-interfered-with-new-black-panther-prosecution/article/2503500

Federal Court finds Obama appointees interfered with New Black Panther prosecution
Oh no :o
So now what? A nation of metrosexuals.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2012, 07:13:30 AM »
Yeah metrosexuals named Boehner and McConnell!  No matter what good news or leverage, the feckless Pubbie leadership just cowers over the prospect of having to wage a real war with the Dem's.  They'd rather join the death-cults the Left created and attack their own like Bachmann who dares call out dangers when they are seen!  They view real conservatives and any Tea Party member more dangerous than a Democrat 100% beholden to leftist ideology and committed to their destruction!  The GOP leadership, Old Guard, whatever the hell you want to call them, pose a larger threat to the survival of the nation than the Democrats!  The Democrats cannot win without the complicity of the feckless GOP leaders and we cannot defeat the Democrats without defeating the entrenched GOP leadership, period.  The idiots in power now will not answer Breitbart's call, they will not answer our call, they can only get in the way!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Predator Don

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2012, 08:05:12 AM »
My lord how I appreciate this site. Thanks IDP for the invite some time ago.

If there are no objections, I'm going to borrow some of the thought here because I've had several discussions ( with others, outside this site)over the weak leadership of republicans, centered around our leadership in Tennessee (like LAMAR!) and how they, IMO, betray us. I'm met with resistance, as many are satisfied the state votes conservative, but it simply isn't enough. I'm not the best at structuring the argument......sometimes I need a little assistance.

So the e mail was music and you guys and gals have provided the ensemble. So forgive me for " borrowing" ( I did ask for permission) the thought here. I have a few dragons to slay.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2012, 08:45:11 AM »

I used to think the Left were simply people I disagreed with. But at some point, during W's administration probably, they revealed the true extent of their ideology and the -- quite frankly, disturbing -- degree of pragmatism with which they were willing to pursue it. It all really crystallized once they thought they had finally gotten their Strong Man into office and the time for pretense was at last over.

So yes, I came to realize it's a war. It's a war that has been waged for a long time already, one that we didn't begin, but by God it's one we must finish. 


I  have a neighbor, a really nice guy and one of those annoyingly cheerful optimists, who sometimes copies me on his mail with his liberal bully cousin. Its one of those "Daily Affirmation" troll  relationships  where the liberal emails him some crap deriding him and his conservative beliefs in some grade school fashion, and then derives self worth either being ignored or from receiving an overly polite response.  I asked him why he bothers. To him, it was just playful jabs, and he thought I should have more of a sense of humor about it. I told him that his cousin had signed my death warrant, and put me on a course where I will probably end up bleeding in my driveway because I can't accept and will not obey the tyrannical edicts  she voted for, and it was only a matter of time before this same person would vote to steal, rob and enslave him and his, forcing his daughter to be a Julia or a slave of the State.  What humor am I to find in that?  There are too many yet  on our side that don't realize this is war, and that every time they respond civilly it simply encourages the behavior, until they will be locked onto the same course that I am.  If your tell a liberal that they will give you liberty or they will give you death, they will choose your death, without remorse or hesitation, because giving you liberty to live your own life without their "wisdom",  deprives them of any illusion of self-worth. My own mother chose to not see me or  her own  grandchildren rather than admit that I (and they) had rights, and that the Democrats fascists she voted for were violating them. Beause of this, a liberal can NEVER be your "friend". If they can't derive an ego stroking from you, you are of no value to them. The second the call arrives to round up the "haters" they will turn you in and
will beg for the chance to be the one to kill you, all for the glory of cleansing the community. Its not "pragmatism" that makes them powerful - its their total and complete like of a conscience. They have no moral principle indicating that  "Haters" should be treated with civility, honesty or honor. Reid, Pelosi, Obama and other lie, cheat and steal - as anything that advanced the agenda is correct, and the laugh behind closed doors at our "outdated" notions of morality and ethics.  They are the race of Nietzsche supermen- destined to rule, and beyond anything so common and mundane as rules or codes. All they do is right, and that is the fundamental reason they never seem to think the rules will apply to them.

Its time not only for our leader to understand that these people are worthless barbarian scum and deal with them accordingly, but for individuals to play the same stupid games. Make your liberal neighbor know, in no uncertain terms, that you think they are a thieving, bullying asshole, and you have no need or desire to have them around. Smiling to their face only lets them think you have accepted their bullying and viewpoint ("tolerance" is not in their vocabulary) and like the schoolyard bully they will interpret it as meaning you are a safe target.  You need to body slam every liberal in your life you can get away with body slamming. Burn the bridges completely  if  you can, deny them kindness, compassion or courtesy if you can't. These people are only out to exploit and bully you. If you gave me a button that would exterminate them all, I would press it before you told me how it worked, even though it would kill my mother, father and sister as well - because that is the choice they would make if given the same opportunity (but only if they could figure a way to absolve themselves of personal responsibility for the action ..I  didn't push the button. I voted for a Democrats to do it for me. No single raindrop is responsible for the flood. )   
 

Offline Glock32

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2012, 09:54:24 AM »
To echo much of what Weisshaupt states above, I am sometimes amazed at how much "hardening of the heart" I have undergone in the past few years.  It is necessary for what is inevitably coming.

On the idea that they escape personal culpability by virtue of electing other people to implement their Leftist world vision, nonsense. A person who sics a dog on someone can be charged with murder if that dog mauls the victim to death. Electing left wing tyrants is no different.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2012, 11:35:27 AM »
I see dead people everyday, they are still walking around, but soon they will achieve their ultimate status...they'll migrate from barely human, to crazed zombie and finally to fully dead.  There are some types you just look at and know they'll be dead within the first few hours of the event, others you just know you'll be shooting at...and there will be not the slightest mercy shown tyrants or their minions...and that is as it should be.

Unless our leaders turn into fire-breathing take-no-prisoner ass-kickers, the event is 100% certain...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2012, 11:43:02 AM »
On the idea that they escape personal culpability by virtue of electing other people to implement their Leftist world vision, nonsense. A person who sics a dog on someone can be charged with murder if that dog mauls the victim to death. Electing left wing tyrants is no different.

They  don't believe  in personal responsiblity for anything. Its always societies fault.  All morality  begins and ends with the collective. If the liberal tribal leadership  says its right, then its right - even when entire states have a super-majority vote against it - like Gay Marriage.  I don't think they escape culpability, but they think they do, because they are just "following orders" . Confronted with what they have voted for, they will pretend that they voted to keep abortion legal or legalize marijuana
or  whatever, and therefore the fact that they are forcing me to pay for health care, or violating the Religious rights of Catholics and the right of conscience of everyone , or using government power in ways not consented to, without the rule of law and with malice towards "hater" individuals,  isn't  their fault.

I point out that it was a package deal, and that they were willing to accept all of those things to get the thing they say is important -just like I am culpable for everything Bush did because the important thing to me was not having an anti-white racist, anti freedom, anti-capitalism,  Fascist Marxist  liberal like Obama in charge. I tell them they took out a hit on me, and as such, they are culpable for the brutality that ensues upon me  and mine - their own  family member or friend, and the result is a shrug.  When you cut these people off, you will rarely get words of protest, or any attempt to convince you otherwise. They Knew is was coming, and had expected it for some time. They will not mourn for the loss of your friendship, or your love, because once you don't make them feel special, they have no need of you at all. Its not like they ever developed or had feelings for you - at least not in the way we typically understand them ..  When I first read Atlas shrugged some of the conversations seemed overblown and exaggerated. Now I realize they are just bitter truths plainly stated- like in Hal Hartley films where the actors actually say what they are thinking, not what would actually be said. (emphasis mine)

Quote
"Well, I think you have a very provincial attitude, all of you," said Phillip suddenly, "nobody here seems to be concerned with the wider, social aspects of the case. I don't agree with you Lillian. I don't see why you say that they're pulling some sort of rotten trick on Henry and that he's in the right. I think he is guilty as hell. Mother, I can explain the issue to you very simply. There's nothing unusual about it, the courts are full of cases of this kind. Businessmen are taking advantage of the National emergency to make money. They break the regulations which protect the common welfare of all - for the sake of their own personal gain. They're profiteers of the black market who grow rich by defrauding the poor of their rightful share, at a time of desperate shortage. They pursue a ruthless, grasping, grabbing, anti social policy, based on nothing but plain, selfish greed. It’s no use pretending about it, we all know it -- and I think its contemptible"
He spoke in a careless, offhand manner, as if explaining the obvious to a group of adolescents; his tone conveyed the assurance of a man who knows that the moral ground of his stand was not open to question.
"Phillip," Reardon said, not raising his voice, "say any of that again and you will find yourself out on the street, right now, with the suit you’ve got on your back, with whatever change you've got in your pocket and with nothing else."
He heard no answer, no sound, no movement. He noted that the stillness of the three before him had no element of astonishment. The look of shock on their faces was not the shock of people at the sudden explosion of a bomb, but the shock of people who had known they were playing with a lighted fuse. There were no outcries, no protests, no questions; they knew he meant it and they knew everything it meant. A dim sickening feeling told him that they had known it long before he did.

"You.. you wouldn't throw your own brother out on the street, would you?" his mother said at last; it was not a demand, but a plea.
"I would."
"But he's your brother..Doesn't that mean anything to you? "
"No."
"Maybe he goes too far at times , but it’s just loose talk, it’s just modern jabber, he doesn't know what he is saying."
"Then let him learn."
"Don't be hard on him…He's younger than you.. and..and weaker. He .. Henry, don't look at me that way I’ve never seen you look like that.. You shouldn't frighten him. You know that he needs you."
"Does HE know it?"
"You can't be hard on a man who needs you, it will prey on your conscience the rest of your life"
"It won't."
"You've got to be kind, Henry."
"I'm not."
"You've got to have some pity."
"I haven't."
"A good man knows how to forgive."
"I don't."
"you wouldn't want me to think you were selfish."
"I am."
Phillips eyes were darting from one to the other. He looked like a man who had felt certain that he stood on solid granite and had suddenly discovered it was thin ice, now cracking open all around him
"But I.." he tried, he stopped, his voice sounded like steps testing the ice " But don't I have any freedom of speech?"
"In your own house, not mine."
"Don't I have a right to my own ideas?"
"At your own expense, not at mine."
"Don't you tolerate differences of opinion?"
"Not when I am paying the bills."
"Isn't there anything involved but money?"
"Yes. The fact that it is MY money."
"Don't you want to consider any hi..." he was going to say "higher" but changed his mind --"any other aspects?"
"No."
"But I'm not your slave."
"Am I yours?"
"I don't know what you--" He stopped; he knew what was meant.
"No," said Rearden, "you're not my slave. You are free to walk out of here any time you choose."
"I..I'm not speaking of that."
"I am."
"I don't understand it..."
"Don't you?"
"You've always known my ... my political views. You've never objected before."
"That's true," said Rearden gravely. "Perhaps I owe you an explanation, if I have misled you. I've tried never to remind you that you're living on my charity. I thought it was your place to remember it. I thought that any human being who accepta the help of another, knows that good will is the giver's only motive and that good will is the payment he owes in return. But I see I was wrong. You were getting your food unearned and you concluded that affection did not need to be earned either. You concluded I was the safest person in the world to spit on, precisely because I held you by the throat. You concluded that I wouldn't want to remind you of it and that I would be tied by the fear of hurting your feelings. All right, let's get it straight: you’re an object of charity who's exhausted his credit long ago. Whatever affection I might have felt for you once, is gone. I haven't the slightest interest in you, your fate or your future. I haven't any reason whatever wishing to feed you. If you leave my house, it won't make any difference to me whether you starve of not. Now that is your position here and I will expect you to remember it, if you wish to stay. If not, then get out."

This is how they understand love- its one way, and has no reciprocal obligation - something to be exploited for their own gain, and something only a fool would do for others. This is why thy can't believe in private charity - they would NEVER be so foolish.  They hate our standards, because they can't live up to them. That is why they  cackle and holler and yell hypocrite whenever a self-professed Christian  sins, ( even Jesus was tempted)  when that is the point of the entire thing: Man is a Sinner from birth.  They want to use that as license to sin, and they mock anyone as naive  who wants to hold themselves to a higher standard (for realsies)

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“Phillip is unhappy. He feels it is not right that he should have to depend on your charity and live on handouts and never be able to count a single dollar of his own. You must give him a job, here at the mills- nut a nice clean job of course, with a desk and an office and a decent salary, where he wouldn't have to be among your day laborers and your smelly furnaces."
"Mother, you are not serious."
"I certainly am. I happen to know that that's what he wants; only he is too proud to ask you for it. But if you offer it to him and make it look like it's you who're asking him a favor - why i know he'd be happy to take it. "
"But he knows nothing of the steel business!"
"What has that got to do with it? He needs a job."
"But he couldn't do the work."
"He needs to gain self-confidence and to feel important. He needs to feel that he is wanted"
"I hire men who produce. What has he got to offer?"
"He is your brother."
"What has that got to do with it?"
"He's your Brother," she said, her voice like a phonograph record, repeating a magic formula she could not permit herself to doubt, "He needs a position in the world. He needs a salary, so that he'd feel that he has got money coming to him as his due, not as alms."
"As his due? He wouldn't be worth a nickel to me."
"Is that what you think of first, your profit? Yes, sure you are helping him- like you'd help any stray beggar. Material help- that’s all you know or understand. Have you thought about his spiritual needs and what his position is doing to his self respect? he doesn't want to live like a beggar. He wants to be independent of you."
"By means of getting from me a salary he can't earn for work he can't do?"
"You'd never miss it. You've got enough people here making money for you."
"Are you asking me to help him stage a fraud of that kind?"
"You don't have to put it that way"
"Is it a fraud or isn't it?"
"You have no mercy for anybody"
"Do you think a fraud of this kind would be just?"
"You are the most immoral man living - you think of nothing but justice. You don't feel any love at all!"
"Mother, I am running a steel plant, not a whorehouse."
"Don't you think of people and your moral duties?"
"I don't know what it is you choose to call morality... If I gave a job to Phillip, I wouldn't be able to face any competent man who needed work and deserved it"
"That's your cruelty, that's what is mean and selfish about you. If you loved your brother, you'd give him a job he didn't deserve, precisely because he didn't deserve it - that would be true love and kindness and brotherhood. Else what is love for? If a man deserves a job, there's no virtue in giving it to him. Virtue is the giving of the undeserved."

And proof of love? That means you are willing to lie, cheat and steal for them., and why they get so angry when we point how the cold hard facts of reality to them. They want the world to be a game of lets pretend. Lets pretend  that  I am not using government to bully you, and always treat me nice, okay? Thats what "civility" means to them - give me what I want and don't call me out on my misbehavior.

Quote
"Why would you want it, if it is not the truth? What for?"
"Now you see, that’s the cruelty of conscientious people. You wouldn't understand it, would you? If I answered that real devotion consists of being willing to lie, cheat and fake in order to make another person happy- to create for him the reality he wants, if he doesn't like the one that exists"
"No," he said slowly, "I don't understand it."
"It’s really very simple. If you tell a beautiful woman that she is beautiful, what have you given her? It’s no more than a fact and it has cost you nothing. But if you tell an ugly woman that she is beautiful you offer her the great homage of corrupting the concept of beauty. To love a woman for her virtues is meaningless. She's earned it, its payment, not a gift. But to love her vices is to defile all virtue for her sake - and that is a real tribute of love, because you sacrifice your conscience, your reason, your integrity, and your invaluable self-esteem.. What is love, darling, if it is not self sacrifice? What is self-sacrifice unless one sacrifices that which is one's most precious and most important.. That's the immense selfishness of the puritan. You'd let the whole world perish rather than soil that immaculate self of yours with a single spot of which you'd be ashamed."

And Guilt is merely a means to control you. They never, ever feel any such emotion- and here you have the perfect description of the GOP.

Quote
"We've waited a long time to get something on you. You honest men are such a problem and such a headache. But we knew you'd slip sooner or later - and this is just what we wanted"
"You seem to be pleased about it."
"Don't I have good reason to be?"
"But, after all, I did break one of your laws."
"Well, what do you think they are for? Did you really think we wanted those laws to be observed? We WANT them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against- then you'll know it is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that is becomes impossible to men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What is there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed or enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt."

Ayn Rand, isn't describing fictitious  people. They are real - be they your sister, brother, aunt, uncle or child. Their understanding of love is what YOU can do for THEM, what you are willing to steal for them, and what they can get you to do out of guilt. Cut them off and they won't notice you are gone, because they never cared one jot for you in the first place. All they ever care about is satisfying their own need to feel special, needed, or elite, and if you don't provide that, they will simply dismiss you as a "hater" and never think of you again. Your noble feelings,  your sense of decency, your ethics are just something to be exploited when possible and ignored when not. They aren't interested in getting along, or a live and let live philosophy. Like the "compromise" of the gun rights cake, those are just words they have found will work to manipulate the moral and decent people around them. They don't understand and don't care what they mean.  They just want what they want, and they want you to give it to them and tell them how wonderful they are, and if you won't, they have no need of you.  Cutting them off won't hurt them, and that isn't the reason you do it.  They won't miss a stride, because they know they deserve it. They will just go hunting for another sucker. You cut them off, because YOU ARE DONE with their BS.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 11:59:30 AM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Libertas

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2012, 11:54:28 AM »
It still amazes me that Atlas Shrugged was written in 1957!  We're living in it!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Pandora

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2012, 12:01:45 PM »
It still amazes me that Atlas Shrugged was written in 1957!  We're living in it!

And isn't it remarkably worth noting that today's Looters are so emboldened as to be blatant?  What they once couched in euphemisms, they now tout openly.  But don't you put the name to it; only they are permitted to do so.

"We Are All Socialists Now".
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Libertas

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2012, 07:45:27 AM »
It still amazes me that Atlas Shrugged was written in 1957!  We're living in it!

And isn't it remarkably worth noting that today's Looters are so emboldened as to be blatant?  What they once couched in euphemisms, they now tout openly.  But don't you put the name to it; only they are permitted to do so.

"We Are All Socialists Now".

They can only take what we agree to give them, that more people do not see the answer is to stop giving them what they want is beyond frustrating!  I just want to slap people silly to wake them up!

 ::slapfight::

Stop the engine!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2012, 12:04:30 PM »
The only thing that is now holding back "interesting times" is the deterrent effect of individual futility. Nobody wants to be the first one to draw a line in the sand and mean it, because they know doing it alone is futile. History, of course, is filled with martyrs whose actions set off mass movements, but it's a difficult step for the ones who are those first few martyrs.

I think this is where the whole notion of the preference cascade is important. It's what starts revolutions, this sudden collective realization that there are many people of the same mind. It removes a lot of the deterrent effect of individual futility.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Tone / civility / reaching across the aisle = Preemptive surrender
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2012, 02:39:38 PM »
So that's what I'm experiencing?  Futility?  All I know is it really sucks!   ::gaah::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.