Author Topic: Why I am Catholic  (Read 20943 times)

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Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #160 on: October 10, 2012, 05:00:55 PM »
Thank you, IDP!  I could ask no more than that.
“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #161 on: October 10, 2012, 05:07:05 PM »
I knew there was a reason why I steered clear of this one  :supercool:

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #162 on: October 10, 2012, 05:11:23 PM »
My pleasure CHF. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Glock32

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #163 on: October 10, 2012, 07:36:49 PM »
Well I have steadfastly avoided this thread because I suspected from the beginning it would end up taking this direction. But also I prefer to avoid sectarian and denominational squabbles because I think it is the quintessence of not seeing the forest for the trees. I also have fresh in mind my own journey as it were, spending several years in the wilderness of agnosticism, and only through a good dose of humility finding my way back to Christ (who had never left). But I bear this in mind when anyone says theirs is the only prescription.

One thing I do find peculiar though are those who profess a reverence for the Founding of the United States and the ideals it embodied, yet project a hostility to Protestantism. The Founding of the USA was a direct consequence of the Protestant Reformation. There would not be a USA without it.
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #164 on: October 10, 2012, 10:57:18 PM »
The Founding of the USA was a direct consequence of the Protestant Reformation. There would not be a USA without it.

Huh.  Never looked at it that way. I always thought of poor, old Christopher Columbus first.

Then the Magna Carta and English common law as the driving forces for what we have as guiding principles in this country.  But I think one could even go back to the beginnings of what is called western thought to Socrates and the great thinkers throughout the centuries until we arrive at a time and place in which men attempted to codify their understanding of being human and the rights therein. 

Maybe it's just my nature or having a professional historian in the family but I have a hard time seeing the founding as a direct consequence of the Reformation and concluding the USA wouldn't exist otherwise.  Many factors were at work that brought history to the shores of America in the form it took. Take any one of those factors away and perhaps the USA as it was designed wouldn't exist OR maybe it would.  And who can say it would be worse.  Maybe better.  I don't know.

My humble opinion.  An interesting thesis nonetheless.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #166 on: October 11, 2012, 06:52:05 AM »
Well I have steadfastly avoided this thread because I suspected from the beginning it would end up taking this direction. But also I prefer to avoid sectarian and denominational squabbles because I think it is the quintessence of not seeing the forest for the trees. I also have fresh in mind my own journey as it were, spending several years in the wilderness of agnosticism, and only through a good dose of humility finding my way back to Christ (who had never left). But I bear this in mind when anyone says theirs is the only prescription.

One thing I do find peculiar though are those who profess a reverence for the Founding of the United States and the ideals it embodied, yet project a hostility to Protestantism. The Founding of the USA was a direct consequence of the Protestant Reformation. There would not be a USA without it.

The Geneva Bible was the first bible translated into English and was instrumental in the Protestant movement, it was carried to America by the Pilgrims on the Mayflower and flourished for quite a while.  We were founded as a Protestant nation and many of the key Founders were wary of Papist influences (the Adams-Jefferson Letters bear this out many times) and not that they were hostile toward Catholics or interested in preventing their free practice of their faith in America, they merely believed true independence of the nation meant not being tied to any foreign secular or temporal power, England or Rome.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #167 on: October 11, 2012, 06:54:44 AM »
Pope Benedict XVI on Wednesday pronounced a blessing in Arabic at his weekly audience in front of 20,000 pilgrims on St Peter's Square -- the first time the language has been used at such an event.

At such an event or any event?  Feh.

Yeah, I commented on this earlier, I would have preferred a full on declaration of a real no-holds-barred Final Crusade declaration issued, in what languange I do not care.

Really, what kind of outreach prospects in the land of 7th century savages does this guy think he'll reap?

Foolish.  I could say more but, lets leave it at that.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #168 on: October 11, 2012, 09:37:47 AM »
I do not care for the term Protestant. I am NOT a Protestant. Nor am I a Catholic. I am a Christian. Protestant implies protesting against something. I am for something. Yes, I understand that sounds like a quibble in the minds of most. But, it is an important distinction. I am not AGAINST catholics following Christ. I am FOR   EVERYONE following Christ.  My goal is to return to his teachings, and those of his apostles, who were given authority under him.  Where someone comes from to get THERE, i do not care. It is the getting there that is important.
“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #169 on: October 11, 2012, 10:32:14 AM »
I do not care for the term Protestant. I am NOT a Protestant. Nor am I a Catholic. I am a Christian. Protestant implies protesting against something. I am for something. Yes, I understand that sounds like a quibble in the minds of most. But, it is an important distinction. I am not AGAINST catholics following Christ. I am FOR   EVERYONE following Christ.  My goal is to return to his teachings, and those of his apostles, who were given authority under him.  Where someone comes from to get THERE, i do not care. It is the getting there that is important.

That's my view exactly.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #170 on: October 11, 2012, 05:38:08 PM »
I do not care for the term Protestant. I am NOT a Protestant. Nor am I a Catholic. I am a Christian. Protestant implies protesting against something. I am for something. Yes, I understand that sounds like a quibble in the minds of most. But, it is an important distinction. I am not AGAINST catholics following Christ. I am FOR   EVERYONE following Christ.  My goal is to return to his teachings, and those of his apostles, who were given authority under him.  Where someone comes from to get THERE, i do not care. It is the getting there that is important.

 a lovely comment
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

CatholicCrusader

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #171 on: October 19, 2012, 09:47:59 AM »
I do not care for the term Protestant. I am NOT a Protestant. Nor am I a Catholic. I am a Christian. Protestant implies protesting against something. I am for something. Yes, I understand that sounds like a quibble in the minds of most. But, it is an important distinction. I am not AGAINST catholics following Christ. I am FOR   EVERYONE following Christ.  My goal is to return to his teachings, and those of his apostles, who were given authority under him.  Where someone comes from to get THERE, i do not care. It is the getting there that is important.
That's my view exactly.
a lovely comment

Now that I have chilled out, allow me to make an observation about the first comment. If we were talking politics right now, I propose that you guys would reject that thought proccess. For example, we know that yesterday's socialists do not like to be called socialists any more, they like to be called "progressives": It sounds better. And if you call them a socialist they will get all huffy. Same goes for liberals. Many Liberals avoid the word because it has a negative taint, although many still embrace it as well. Yet we all know that regardless of the label-of-the-day, they believe what they believe.

So ChrstnHsbndFthr does not care for the term Protestant. Okay, fine. But whatever name he chooses to use, the beliefs are the same. His beliefs for the most part represent protestantism. Its not an insult, its just a fact. You can say the same for me: I consider myself a Christian, and I suppose if I had my choice I'd prefer that everyone in my church were just called Christians and left it at that. But the fact is that my beliefs are those taught by the Catholic Church, and regardless of what I want to be called, my beliefs are Catholic just as ChrstnHsbndFthr's beliefs are Protestant.

Isn't that a fair statement?

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #172 on: October 20, 2012, 12:02:22 AM »
I do not care for the term Protestant. I am NOT a Protestant. Nor am I a Catholic. I am a Christian. Protestant implies protesting against something. I am for something. Yes, I understand that sounds like a quibble in the minds of most. But, it is an important distinction. I am not AGAINST catholics following Christ. I am FOR   EVERYONE following Christ.  My goal is to return to his teachings, and those of his apostles, who were given authority under him.  Where someone comes from to get THERE, i do not care. It is the getting there that is important.
That's my view exactly.
a lovely comment

Now that I have chilled out, allow me to make an observation about the first comment. If we were talking politics right now, I propose that you guys would reject that thought proccess. For example, we know that yesterday's socialists do not like to be called socialists any more, they like to be called "progressives": It sounds better. And if you call them a socialist they will get all huffy. Same goes for liberals. Many Liberals avoid the word because it has a negative taint, although many still embrace it as well. Yet we all know that regardless of the label-of-the-day, they believe what they believe.

So ChrstnHsbndFthr does not care for the term Protestant. Okay, fine. But whatever name he chooses to use, the beliefs are the same. His beliefs for the most part represent protestantism. Its not an insult, its just a fact. You can say the same for me: I consider myself a Christian, and I suppose if I had my choice I'd prefer that everyone in my church were just called Christians and left it at that. But the fact is that my beliefs are those taught by the Catholic Church, and regardless of what I want to be called, my beliefs are Catholic just as ChrstnHsbndFthr's beliefs are Protestant.

Isn't that a fair statement?

No. 

My beliefs are not protestant. My beliefs do not hinge on Catholicism in any way. I was never a Catholic.  I did not leave it in protest over false doctrines.  I came straight to Christ. I no more protest Catholicism than I do Buddhism, or Mormonism, or any other religion.  I PROMOTE Christ.  I FOLLOW Christ. I read HIS word. The one person I follow is Christ. Obviously, in choosing Christ,  I reject other religions for myself, but I cannot correctly be called Protestant, any more than I could be called Catholic, Buddhist, or Mormon, despite the fact I surely share certain beliefs of each one. (Certainly you can call anyone names, but the point being they are inadequate and incorrect.)   I do admit that I believe in the one, world-wide church. It is my understanding that this is what the word catholic means, but that does not make me a Catholic. Also, simply because I share some beliefs of some protestants, those beliefs do not make me a protestant.  My beliefs come strictly and purely from the bible and not from any protestant denomination any more than they come from the Catholic denomination. Did you notice in our conversation my appeal is only to God's word? I derive no authority elsewhere.  To the degree that the Pope, or Martin Luther, or John Calvin, or anyone else, can show me something in scripture, then I have been taught and accept the Word.  But, it is not because of the teacher, or his authority, but it is because the Word teaches it.
“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

CatholicCrusader

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #173 on: October 20, 2012, 07:51:37 AM »
No.  

Really? Well it IS a fair statement, but I won't get into a shouting match as I did before.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 07:58:28 AM by CatholicCrusader »

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Re: Why I am Catholic
« Reply #174 on: October 20, 2012, 08:11:39 AM »
...and with that... If the discussion is to continue, it will be on another thread...


"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson