Topic: The economy is easy to fix.

[MacWell™]

Why is it that all of the intellectuals out there cannot figure out how to fix our fumbling economy?
I'm no intellectual, never claim to be, and I can tell you how easy it would be to not only fix the economy, but, provide enough high paying jobs to end unemployment. Really, it's a simple matter.
1) Convert our cars and trucks to burn natural gas.
2) Drill baby drill, everywhere there is oil in America.
3) Plan and build 100 nuclear powerhouses, 2 in each state.
4) Redevelop our existing power grid into smaller grids, with provisions to piggyback each grid with another if one either goes out, or is disabled.
This plan will do 2 important things. The price of oil on the open market will drastically drop, maybe even back to $20.00 a barrel. That will remove petro power from the hands of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya, and all of the rest of the despots in the mideast. It will also restore America to where it should be, the leader of the world. Within 10 years, we Americans will once again have the seat of power and be able to start phase 2. America should go after every dictator in the world, and at least give the people of the world a chance at freedom. I believe when the average person from wherever has the chance to see their children grow up safe, be able to get an education, and start to contribute to mankind.
just a thought.

[Libertas]

2-4 are solid!  Even though the Japan thing has probably all but killed #3 for no reason other than blind hysteria!  But I'm all for it.  And our grid is woefully under engineered and overstressed!  And that capital investment is not going to be cheap, that could be a huge spike in pass-through costs to consumers.

#1 I am a bit concerned with.  Introducing a more flamable commodity into our vehicles and shooting them out onto the road, where, as we all know, there are some pretty bad drivers, indigent and otherwise!  I understand the rationale, reducing oil demand and making oil and gasoline more affordable and sticking it to foreign oil producers, but lowering demand/price will also hurt drilling and exploration.  Not that the latter cannot happen to some extent, and I am not saying reduce demand/price to extremal low levels, but exploration and drilling is not cheap and sales of fuel provide the necessary funds to do it.  And remember, oil companies only makes about 8 cents per gallon in net profit, government takes in at least ten times that!  So the real villain in gouging must always be highlighted anytime we talk about fuel costs.

Good list to start a discussion with!

 

[Pandora]

Couple quibbles from here.   

First, I do not want it to be mandated what kind of fuel I must use in my vehicle, nor that I only may purchase a vehicle that uses the approved fuel.

Second, I do not want the US military, via my taxes, to be in the business of "freeing" people all over the world.  Not our job.

The rest is good.

[AmericanPatriot]

Libertas, natural gas and propane cars have been around for quite a while.
There are some issues but the bomb is no bigger than the one you're carrying in your gas tank now.

Another fix that I would add is to start making things again. Here.

Entrepreuneurship should be taught and encouraged. Remove government fetters.

I have a little bit of doomer in me and think it's possible things are going to crash.

Small biz and "cottage" industry will become more important.
Even if we don't crash, it is now technologically to decentalize a lot of operations

[IronDioPriest]

Yeah, the whole military conquest/democracy-spreading thing, notsomuch. After being completely on board with both Iraq and Afghanistan based on the face-value justifications given at the time, my opinion of the value of Arab/Islamic lives has plummeted. I thought removing tyrannical regimes in the Arab/Islamic world would give the "real" citizens of those nations an opportunity to arise and claim their countries in the name of freedom. But they don't deserve it, therefore, we ought not be dying for them.

Bush's statement that freedom is not America's gift to the world, but rather the Almighty's gift to all mankind is true. I get goosebumps when I ruminate on how true that is. But entire cultures and nations have rejected that gift, and they should just be left to deal with the consequences. Let missionaries try to win those hearts, not soldiers. We cannot use military might to topple tyrannical regimes and then expect that in the wake, cultures and nations who have rejected the gift of God for centuries will suddenly accept it. They are undeserving of liberty, and therefore undeserving of American blood and treasure.

If I was in charge we would devastate whatever enemy remains in both Iraq and Afghanistan, get out, and never return unless our national security was threatened - as I believe it was when the wars were initiated. I just think the whole notion of "winning hearts and minds" and trying to install democracies while simultaneously destroying infrastructure and human lives is moronic. War is meant for killing.

[Libertas]

Libertas, natural gas and propane cars have been around for quite a while.
There are some issues but the bomb is no bigger than the one you're carrying in your gas tank now.

Another fix that I would add is to start making things again. Here.

Entrepreuneurship should be taught and encouraged. Remove government fetters.

I have a little bit of doomer in me and think it's possible things are going to crash.

Small biz and "cottage" industry will become more important.
Even if we don't crash, it is now technologically to decentalize a lot of operations

Re: natural gas, true, but not on a large scale.  As an option available for people who want it, hey, let the marketplace rule!  And re-fueling would have to be properly managed...I see idiots everyday barely capable of pumping gas without dying!  Plus, the hogher demand for natural gas, the more its price will increase.  If you live in the north and pay heating bills, you'll appreciate supply and demand swings much more.

And as far as manufacturing goes, you would have to make sure card-check, collective bargaining and other union agitation advantages are removed first, and every state is a right-to-work state.  Manufacturing left because of unions driving up labor costs, and if you use union shop sub's, guess what, it ripples all through and the increases feed upon themselves to the point where are just not competitive with other nations anymore!

So until the proper groundwork is laid, there will never be a manufacturing base like we had 40-50 years ago.

Plus, non-union shops get sucked into union wage scales because Ruling Class pol's passed laws and ordinances to cover their rotten butts!

For example -

I'm sure Don can elaborate for his business, I know many small businessmen and consulted for them years ago.  My BIL is still a comtractor with a light construction business.  It does not take a rocket scientist to be a general laborer in this field, and my BIL pays pretty well for the simple work he does.  He'll pay college kids on summer break anywhere between $12 & $18 per hour depending upon reliability.  Some cities and municipalities have "prevailing wage" laws.  So even a non-union business has no control over how much they compensate their employees, if they win the bid for that job, they have to pay $40/hour for each worker working that job!  How the hell can a contractor win a bid and pay such an outrageous wage to his workers?!  Totally insane!

As long as Ruling Class morons are in control, manufacturing in this nation will be minimal.  It is an obvious strategic failing, but it is what it is.  I see nothing changing this for the better.

[Libertas]

Yeah, the whole military conquest/democracy-spreading thing, notsomuch. After being completely on board with both Iraq and Afghanistan based on the face-value justifications given at the time, my opinion of the value of Arab/Islamic lives has plummeted. I thought removing tyrannical regimes in the Arab/Islamic world would give the "real" citizens of those nations an opportunity to arise and claim their countries in the name of freedom. But they don't deserve it, therefore, we ought not be dying for them.

Bush's statement that freedom is not America's gift to the world, but rather the Almighty's gift to all mankind is true. I get goosebumps when I ruminate on how true that is. But entire cultures and nations have rejected that gift, and they should just be left to deal with the consequences. Let missionaries try to win those hearts, not soldiers. We cannot use military might to topple tyrannical regimes and then expect that in the wake, cultures and nations who have rejected the gift of God for centuries will suddenly accept it. They are undeserving of liberty, and therefore undeserving of American blood and treasure.

If I was in charge we would devastate whatever enemy remains in both Iraq and Afghanistan, get out, and never return unless our national security was threatened - as I believe it was when the wars were initiated. I just think the whole notion of "winning hearts and minds" and trying to install democracies while simultaneously destroying infrastructure and human lives is moronic. War is meant for killing.

Well said.  And how ironic the nation-building denunciations of the leftists now running the show is in the current Libyan affair is stunning to witness.  But like you said in another post, the anti-war faction was used, just like leftists always use every faction that supports them...where else they gonna go?  The Left is all about power.  Reason, logic, common sense, law, opinion...none of that matters in the end.

[Pandora]

Yeah, the whole military conquest/democracy-spreading thing, notsomuch. After being completely on board with both Iraq and Afghanistan based on the face-value justifications given at the time, my opinion of the value of Arab/Islamic lives has plummeted. I thought removing tyrannical regimes in the Arab/Islamic world would give the "real" citizens of those nations an opportunity to arise and claim their countries in the name of freedom. But they don't deserve it, therefore, we ought not be dying for them.

Bush's statement that freedom is not America's gift to the world, but rather the Almighty's gift to all mankind is true. I get goosebumps when I ruminate on how true that is. But entire cultures and nations have rejected that gift, and they should just be left to deal with the consequences. Let missionaries try to win those hearts, not soldiers. We cannot use military might to topple tyrannical regimes and then expect that in the wake, cultures and nations who have rejected the gift of God for centuries will suddenly accept it. They are undeserving of liberty, and therefore undeserving of American blood and treasure.

If I was in charge we would devastate whatever enemy remains in both Iraq and Afghanistan, get out, and never return unless our national security was threatened - as I believe it was when the wars were initiated. I just think the whole notion of "winning hearts and minds" and trying to install democracies while simultaneously destroying infrastructure and human lives is moronic. War is meant for killing.

Everywhere muslim that we've "installed" democracy (Iraq) and everywhere muslim that we haven't is/are busily murdering Christians.  Levin covered this in some detail last evening.  Iraq's Constitution is based on sharia law - so much for democracy.

Further, in a cruel twist, the Egyptian Copts are all in for killing Jews, as the head of the church there preaches that "the Jews killed Jesus".

[AmericanPatriot]

Libertas, I'd like to disagree with you a little.

Natural gas is booming. There are tons of wells that are already drilled but capped because the price of gas is very low as well as pipelines need to be built for distribution.
There is so much gas in the Marcellus shale, it would take a long time to use it.
But, there may be environmental issues related to ground water.

Also, I read not too long ago that labor was not the main reason manufacturing left. Government regulation and taxation was the main reason. (I couldn't find that report if you held a gun to my head, btw.)
I'm no fan of unions

We do agree, and I said it, that government has to remove the fetters and get out of the way.

Manufacturing does not need to be the way it was 50 years ago.
Steel mills for example.
Being from near Pittsburgh, the mills used to be huge things stretching a mile or more.
Then there were mini mills. Much more efficient, smaller, cleaner.
They didn't need 5000 workers.

Strategically, one of the dumbest things is to have to import the stuff you need for defense and that's what we do

And for a little woo woo.
I've heard that agreements were made that other places could make stuff and we would be financiers and consumers.

Also, that it was purposely done because of demographics. With the end of the baby boom, other places would be the emerging markets and profits were there, not here

[Libertas]

Libertas, I'd like to disagree with you a little.

Natural gas is booming. There are tons of wells that are already drilled but capped because the price of gas is very low as well as pipelines need to be built for distribution.
There is so much gas in the Marcellus shale, it would take a long time to use it.
But, there may be environmental issues related to ground water.

Also, I read not too long ago that labor was not the main reason manufacturing left. Government regulation and taxation was the main reason. (I couldn't find that report if you held a gun to my head, btw.)
I'm no fan of unions

We do agree, and I said it, that government has to remove the fetters and get out of the way.

Manufacturing does not need to be the way it was 50 years ago.
Steel mills for example.
Being from near Pittsburgh, the mills used to be huge things stretching a mile or more.
Then there were mini mills. Much more efficient, smaller, cleaner.
They didn't need 5000 workers.

Strategically, one of the dumbest things is to have to import the stuff you need for defense and that's what we do

And for a little woo woo.
I've heard that agreements were made that other places could make stuff and we would be financiers and consumers.

Also, that it was purposely done because of demographics. With the end of the baby boom, other places would be the emerging markets and profits were there, not here

Capacity and transmission are needed, the former is lacking now and is why we see heating cost fluctuations...that and providers don't want to store at high prices and wait in hopes they drop, so if they don't...ouch, for the former that would really have to be improved if use became more widespread.  I did not mean to imply the natural gas industry from an extraction or demand from a use perspective was inferior.

I would argue unions and government regulation and taxation are all riders in the same cart, be that as it may, I think we are in agreement that much detritus would have to be cleared before a decent manufacturing base returns. Doesn't have to be on par with 50 years ago, I just threw that out there because many who pine for manufacturing often look back to the glory days and forget what took those glory days away.

The choice we made, the laws we passed, the regulations we imposed...all led to a transfer from a manufacturing economy to a service economy. It is harder to go from service to manufacturing I think than the other way...and our soft leaders took the softer path of least resistance to get us to where we are now.

[AmericanPatriot]

Capacity is building.
Here in western Pa, they're sinking wells everywhere.
You're right about transmission. There are a lot of pipelines but the problem is the lines from the wells to them.
And the incentive to build them is low because of the relatively low price of the gas.

Not saying that unions aren't a factor but gov was the biggest. At least according to the report.

Besides the government problem is that we haven't acknowledged the paradigm shift.
In one of Robert Kiyosaki's (sp?) books he talks about that ( I think it's Rich Kid Smart Kid)

He was talking about the educational system.

He said we operate with an agrarian calendar, teaching for an Industrial age that's gone with very entrenched bureaucracies-union and government- in an information age.

Being a serial entrepreneur, I'm a believer that is the solution. Provided we can remove at least some of the barriers.

[Libertas]

Good points.

We also have a largely antiquated transmission system for fuel.  If people knew how vulnerable we are to disruption... 

And our electrical grid is even more antiquated, cookie-cuttered and stressed!  We truly need a Marshall Plan style infrastructure retrofitting in this nation in the area of all utilities.  And at present we have no funds to do it with...unless you start taking stuff like free cheese away from the (cough) needy!

But I agree that getting he heck out of the way of the free market and releasing the (hopefully still) natural American spirit of risk and reward...that would go long way to help getting us to head in the right direction.

[AmericanPatriot]

One area that would help, Libertas, is changing the get stuff for free and having to do nothing for it.
We could devolve into a long discussion of public works but just want to relate a (semi) short story from my dad about the depression.

My dad was as hard working as anyone. And, if there were work to be found he would have had it. A skilled coal miner with blasting skills and strong as a bull.
Back to point.
He told me about a public works job building a road. There was equipment to do this work but they didn't use it.
He said that the job was smashing rocks. I think it was 30'X16'X3' deep.

If you couldn't or didn't do it, you didn't get to come back tomorrow

The free lunch has to go.

It steals the spirit as well as being totally immoral

[IronDioPriest]

...The free lunch has to go.

It steals the spirit as well as being totally immoral

Amen and amen. There are a myriad of services an able bodied person could provide in exchange for their welfare check. Provide a service, get a voucher, trade it for a check. That is both logical and moral.

[Libertas]

Amen AP!

I heard another story this AM that just reinforced that idea and made my blood boil - It was about many public employees opting to take early retirement thinking that even at the reduced early retirement levels under the existing plush plan, it will be worth more to them than a potentially lower full retirement plan given the mood in the country to scale back generous public sector pay and benefits.  But it gets better.  They talked to a CA guy (I am sure it is happening in all states!) who took early retirement, and then since his department just couldn't do without his vast experience...they hired him back at a higher salary as a consultant!  You have got to be sh*tting me!  We have to get unions out of government and start making government agencies and departments start behaving like they have a bottom line to hit and people to be accountable to!

[IronDioPriest]

...We have to get unions out of government and start making government agencies and departments start behaving like they have a bottom line to hit and people to be accountable to!

There is no bottom line short of national bankruptcy when the recipients of largesse can collectively lobby for tax increases promising votes in return. They see the taxpayer as an endless supply of money that absolves them of the kind of bottom-line-oriented fiscal responsibility required by private businesses.

[warpmine]

Fine ideas, all but you forget what and who we're dealing with here, mindless masses that are absolutely ignorant of the environment around them. A good portion of these follow and worship at the AGW alter. To them it's heresy to burn hydrocarbons in any form. They just can't grasp the concept of the oil economy. How many can list products produced using oil as the base?

The other half are just progressives looking to complete their power grab.
Following the constitution to the letter would fix the economy in short order but we're not likely to pry the politicians off their fix on power from the dependent class of worthless slime.

Now we're left with the how will it get done. WAR with the ruling class elites. Force the issue under the penalty of their death and redistributing their wealth back from whence it came.

[ToddF]

Liquid coal for the autos.  Scares the crap out of the GW fraudsters because it can work.

[charlesoakwood]

Gasoline engines, 9:1 compression or better ratio , 100 octane pure gasoline. 
Natural gas has no lubricating properties and the existing internal combustion engine is not designed for non-lubricating fuel, maintenance and repair costs would escalate.

Unions and lawmakers have been in cahoots forever.  During the depression the unions would have gotten no traction at the Big 3 if it were not for FDR.

Manufacturing is a straw dog red herring. After WWII the auto manufacturers wanted to replace people with robots and the unions blocked it.  Today, if manufacturing were allowed to return to the US (no-unions) it would all be robotic.  There would be a few people in sterile rooms watching monitors. 

Each state responsible for its own electrical generation, I don't want the fed in control of my electricity.  Remember a couple of years ago when one state browned out and several failed?  If the Fed controls it they all will fail.

Let the marketplace determine outcomes.

[John Florida]

Gasoline engines, 9:1 compression or better ratio , 100 octane pure gasoline. 
Natural gas has no lubricating properties and the existing internal combustion engine is not designed for non-lubricating fuel, maintenance and repair costs would escalate.Unions and lawmakers have been in cahoots forever.  During the depression the unions would have gotten no traction at the Big 3 if it were not for FDR.

Manufacturing is a straw dog red herring. After WWII the auto manufacturers wanted to replace people with robots and the unions blocked it.  Today, if manufacturing were allowed to return to the US (no-unions) it would all be robotic.  There would be a few people in sterile rooms watching monitors. 

Each state responsible for its own electrical generation, I don't want the fed in control of my electricity.  Remember a couple of years ago when one state browned out and several failed?  If the Fed controls it they all will fail.

Let the marketplace determine outcomes.

 They said the same thing when we took lead out of fuel but that didn't prove to be true.