Topic: Fiscal Cliff: Why Congress Might Have to Mess with the 401(k)

[Pandora]

HAVE to?!

To maintain this savings incentive the government “spends” $100 billion a year in the form of tax breaks to those who stash money in these kinds of accounts. Now, a new study suggests this tax incentive does little to change saving behavior. Some lawmakers, no doubt, are wondering: Why keep an expensive tax incentive that does not incent?

Notice the derogation:  "stash" money.  Once upon a time, it was considered thrifty and wise to save for a rainy day -- or for retirement.  Now, it's considered that we're "stashing", hoarding, and stupidly at that.  And unpatriotic -- we're "costing" the Looters money.

There is no discernible momentum behind such measures.

Oh bullsht!  Really?!  Why then does it keep cropping up as a method of cutting government "spending"?

[charlesoakwood]

They are busy redefining all forms of social and fiscal activity, defining it down that is, comrade.

[ToddF]

Tax break?  Um, no journotards, tax deferral.  In fact, it's a net tax gainer over time as people do have emergencies, will take the money out, and spend a 10% tax penalty they never would have paid, on top of income taxes.

All this does it take future tax collections, today.  Yet another way the piglets of America will steal from the next generation.

[Glock32]

Rush was talking yesterday about an article in the Slimes identifying as "enemies of the people" those in the Sandy-affected areas with their own generators. It isn't right that some people have the means to "opt out" of discomfort and others don't, you see.  Combine this with the assault on people who move to the suburbs.  Obama has a particular animus against those who "abandon" (i.e., flee urban cesspools, taking their money with them) cities, like Detroit.  It all dovetails nicely into Agenda 21 doesn't it?

So yes, you are the enemy if: you work and put your earnings into things that make you independent such as retirement savings, disaster preparedness, a house removed from urban blight, and so on. They've declared you the enemy. The Soviets called such people kulaks. To the Left no one is a bigger enemy than the upwardly mobile merchant/yeoman/freeman (to borrow from the feudal mindset in which they still operate). It isn't the old money aristocrat they hate, in fact many of their ranks are drawn from the bored, idle youth of such families. It's the people in the middle they despise, the bourgeoisie as they like to say.

It's coming to a head now. We are not too far off from the moment they begin to physically eliminate their enemies.

[Pandora]

Rush was talking yesterday about an article in the Slimes identifying as "enemies of the people" those in the Sandy-affected areas with their own generators. It isn't right that some people have the means to "opt out" of discomfort and others don't, you see.  Combine this with the assault on people who move to the suburbs.  Obama has a particular animus against those who "abandon" (i.e., flee urban cesspools, taking their money with them) cities, like Detroit.  It all dovetails nicely into Agenda 21 doesn't it?

Apparently, Kristof believes that the little people, those adversely affected by Sandy's power outages, are suffering because "the rich do not pay their fair share".  That taxes do not affect a public utility's infrastructure -- the ratepayers do -- seems to be beyond his ken.  But it's an easy and familiar position -- banging the same favored drum -- to fall back on.  Over and over and over ...

So yes, you are the enemy if: you work and put your earnings into things that make you independent such as retirement savings, disaster preparedness, a house removed from urban blight, and so on. They've declared you the enemy. The Soviets called such people kulaks. To the Left no one is a bigger enemy than the upwardly mobile merchant/yeoman/freeman (to borrow from the feudal mindset in which they still operate). It isn't the old money aristocrat they hate, in fact many of their ranks are drawn from the bored, idle youth of such families. It's the people in the middle they despise, the bourgeoisie as they like to say.

It's coming to a head now. We are not too far off from the moment they begin to physically eliminate their enemies.

Yes.  Class warfare morphs into mass kill-fare.

I am so friggin depressed.

[Weisshaupt]

Rush was talking yesterday about an article in the Slimes identifying as "enemies of the people" those in the Sandy-affected areas with their own generators. It isn't right that some people have the means to "opt out" of discomfort and others don't, you see.  Combine this with the assault on people who move to the suburbs.  Obama has a particular animus against those who "abandon" (i.e., flee urban cesspools, taking their money with them) cities, like Detroit.  It all dovetails nicely into Agenda 21 doesn't it?

Apparently, Kristof believes that the little people, those adversely affected by Sandy's power outages, are suffering because "the rich do not pay their fair share".  That taxes do not affect a public utility's infrastructure -- the ratepayers do -- seems to be beyond his ken.  But it's an easy and familiar position -- banging the same favored drum -- to fall back on.  Over and over and over ...

Its like the article praising "everyone suffering together" at the hotels - how wonderful it was that rich and poor were reduced to the same primitive conditions.- This isn't even Feudal. Its Tribal.  Nothing makes leftists happier than shared suffering - poverty spread equally. If anyone get ahead - even a little by having the foresight to purchase a $500 generator, and no you don't have to be "rich" to do that, then they must be torn down. We. Must. Kill. Ivan's. Goat.  Instead of asking to store perishables  in Ivan's working refrigerator,  or charge your cell phone for $5 in as money, you want to make sure no  one has refidgeration or a charged phone. Because things are "better" that way. More "fair"

Well I got news for the greedy liberal neanderthal tribal barbarians. Even when the power is out, you are still  greedy liberal neanderthal tribal barbarians. You are still inferior to the people who prepped and whose generators you disabled or stole. You are still inferior to the man who had the work ethic and skills  required  to survive in that situation.  We will never be Equal. You are animals- not one step above primitive man in your world  outlook. We are men. Capable, non-whiny, skilled, self sufficient  individuals. You can never be and we will always have more than you because of it, even stripped naked and in chains.

[AlanS]

Nothing makes leftists happier than shared suffering - poverty spread equally.

That, in a nutshell, is what liberalism is all about. Share the misery. Unless your the ruling elite, of course. Rules don't apply.

[Weisshaupt]

Rush was talking yesterday about an article in the Slimes identifying as "enemies of the people" those in the Sandy-affected areas with their own generators. It isn't right that some people have the means to "opt out" of discomfort and others don't, you see.  Combine this with the assault on people who move to the suburbs.  Obama has a particular animus against those who "abandon" (i.e., flee urban cesspools, taking their money with them) cities, like Detroit.  It all dovetails nicely into Agenda 21 doesn't it?

More agenda 21
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/home-squeezed-home-living-in-a-200-square-foot-space/2012/11/27/e1a02858-2f35-11e2-ac4a-33b8b41fb531_story.html

What affordability looks like in the New America.

S

[AlanS]

More agenda 21
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/home-squeezed-home-living-in-a-200-square-foot-space/2012/11/27/e1a02858-2f35-11e2-ac4a-33b8b41fb531_story.html

What affordability looks like in the New America.

S

Damn. I could just see a family of 4 living there. They'd have to be really good friends or used to group gropes.

[charlesoakwood]

and again...

Speaker Of The House Shocked That President Who Likely Left Two Heros High And Dry In Benghazi Proves Incapable Of Keeping Phone Call Secret

For crying out loud in the dark, Boehner:

[blockquote] Republicans believe the administration leaked details of the 30-minute Wednesday night phone call to Politico, which is causing them to question whether they can trust the White House to keep details private, a sentiment that has caused progress in the negotiations over the “fiscal cliff” to stall.[/blockquote]

[Glock32]

and again...

Speaker Of The House Shocked That President Who Likely Left Two Heros High And Dry In Benghazi Proves Incapable Of Keeping Phone Call Secret

For crying out loud in the dark, Boehner:

[blockquote] Republicans believe the administration leaked details of the 30-minute Wednesday night phone call to Politico, which is causing them to question whether they can trust the White House to keep details private, a sentiment that has caused progress in the negotiations over the “fiscal cliff” to stall.[/blockquote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt87mXL_ftg

[LadyVirginia]

Well I got news for the greedy liberal neanderthal tribal barbarians. Even when the power is out, you are still  greedy liberal neanderthal tribal barbarians. You are still inferior to the people who prepped and whose generators you disabled or stole. You are still inferior to the man who had the work ethic and skills  required  to survive in that situation.  We will never be Equal. You are animals- not one step above primitive man in your world  outlook. We are men. Capable, non-whiny, skilled, self sufficient  individuals. You can never be and we will always have more than you because of it, even stripped naked and in chains.

What they lust after is self limiting because they can only take as much as another has...whereas a hardworking, free man is without limits becuase he's not looking at someone else; he's looking towards his future...

[Pandora]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/11/mark-levin-sounds-the-alarm-on-governments-plan-to-nationalize-401k-plans-video/

"This comes from a previous interview with far left labor activist Teresa Ghilarducci.

401k social security Teresa Ghilarducci

Mark Levin sounded the alarm this week that Democrats want to nationalize 401K plans.
This comes from a previous interview with far left labor activist Teresa Ghilarducci.

Right Scoop reported:

    Even if you’ve heard this interview before, it’s worthing listening again. It’s very entertaining as Mark Levin rips this professor to shreds and she doesn’t even realize it.

    Via Mark Levin’s Facebook:

        During my last few shows, including as recently as yesterday, I have alerted you to Obama’s desire to nationalize your 401-k plan and eliminate your mortgage interest deduction.

        Some background on the former. Back in October 2008, I got word that Professor Teresa Ghilarducci of the New School had testified before Rep. George Miller’s committee in support of a plan to nationalize private pension plans — in particular, 401-k plans. I not only spoke about it on my show back then, but we tracked down the professor and I conducted the first interview on talk radio. I will discuss this at more length on my program this evening, but I thought you might want to be among the first to listen to that interview again. Please pass it along to as many people as you can."

From Ghilarducci's blog:

We need to SUPPLEMENT traditional Social Security with a savings vehicles that charges low fees and guarantees returns. To obtain adequate retirement income workers need to save a minimum of 17%.  Social Security gets you over half the way there with 12.4% of pay contributed to Social Security. Fortunate workers who have traditional plans defined benefit plans gererally have savings up to the required level;  but most workers have no accounts at work and those with 401(k)-type plans  aren’t saving enough on a consistent basis because 401(k) - type accounts are voluntary and charge high fees.

I have a realistic proposal for guaranteed retirement accounts. First, the math. An average income worker investing 5% of pay into an account that pays 3% real will supplement Social Security adequately. The only entity that can provide a guaranteed return is the government.  That is why I call for state or federal help to provide a vehicle for ordinary people to save for their retirement, a Guaranteed Retirement Account.

The government can provide a guaranteed rate of return with no extra cost or risk; it will just invest the money in conservative investments and pay annuities to retirees at the time the worker or beneficiary takes Social Security.

...  I agree with Feldstein that we need individual account supplements to Social Security. He calls for workers to save 3% of payroll because he assumes they can earn 5.5% above inflation in commercial accounts. But if we do the math, and look at history, a 3% contribution rate is too low and the savings has to be universal, not voluntary. And employers have to help (along with a transformation of the tax deduction for retirement savings into a tax credit so the government can help workers save 5%) – and the guaranteed rate has to be realistic and guaranteed by the government. A 3 percent real return is more realistic and doable.

To recap:

Voluntary accounts are bad because people don't "invest" enough and we're too stupid to know when the fees are too high.

The only entity that CAN do it properly is the government because it can GUARANTEE a 3% return by itself investing our money for us.  Where?  In Treasury Bills.
Yeah, that's all worked out real well with Social Security, hasn't it?

Then the government will pay an annuity at the time of retirement.  "Annuity" means when you die, only your half of your "investment" passes to your spouse or heirs.

"Investment" in a government vehicle must be mandatory.

This btch needs a punch in the face.

[Libertas]

They all need a punch in the face.

But most American's aren't in a punching mood, they are in a thanks for the ObamaPhone/bend over and grab the ankles kind of mood...the election proved that well enough...

[AmericanPatriot]

The next 30% drop in the market will have the sheep clamoring for this.
There won't be much in the way of protests

Just grateful that the government will save us

[Glock32]

Exactly. While this is appalling to us, and to anyone who values personal liberty and private property (since one is inseparable from the other), the sad reality is that the majority of this country, the AINOs, want more government. This isn't something that alarms them. They probably think it's a great idea, especially when you consider that it will have little effect on them personally, just as with tax policy.

[radioman]

What's apparent is the way a liberal thinks:

If a person has money left over after taking care of his needs to put into 'savings', then that person has 'more' money than what he needs, and should give that money to the government instead of stashing it in personal savings. We need to wake up America! and help the government seize all these funds that are not being directed to the government like they should be. It is amoral to stash your cash that you don't need.

[Pandora]

We're in the process of cashing out and oy vey, the hit we're going to take.  It KILLS me.

[Libertas]

Yup.  But with the increase in personal rates and capital gains...cheaper now to take it and keep as much as you can...

Sucks royally, but there it is...

If sanity returns...yeah I know, what are the odds?...you can always jump back in...

[Glock32]

You know what else is inevitably in their bag of tricks? The scheme of having everyone get their pay from the government. Your employer will transmit your wages to a government clearing house, they will deduct from it what they determine to be proper, and disburse the remainder to you.

I seem to recall such a system came very close to passing in the UK. And you know how it is with Leftists, unlike our side they never accept defeat and will just keep chiseling away until they finally succeed at this or that thing.