Author Topic: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam  (Read 15444 times)

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Online Libertas

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2012, 11:50:49 AM »
Hopefully, a legitimate question, so don't spank me
It has been said that we spend more on defense than everyone else. Or something like that.
I know. I know. Some of the other country's numbers aren't included.

We have bases in a majority of the world's countries and fight endless wars with ridiculous rules of engagement.

The $800 toilet seat and $500 hammers

I would bet we could find some efficiencies that wouldn't hurt defense one bit.
Maybe Germany, Japan and Korea could pay for their own damn defense.

Also, I've seen it said that a lot of our adventurism is to keep the Saudis propped up

Aw hell, AP; I agree with you.  On all of it.  I believe we don't need all the bases we have currently; they could be reduced to a few/several strategic locations and be done with it.

To the ROE, don't even get me started.   ::outrage::

As for the last in particular, if we could get ahold of our own damn oil, we could let somebody else pay to keep the Saudis in their own gold toilet appointments.

Agree on all points.  Plus those comparative numbers are not comparative, the free ride Europe and others get via NATO and our presence there means more money for butter than guns for those clowns, time that free ride ends.  There is no need for NATO anymore, if we want (air) basing rights in England and Germany and (baval) basing rights in Spain & Italy, fine, lets lease it, but these obsolete organizations need to go.  Ashcanistan needs to be bailed on and Iraq can stand on their own (let the Saudi's fend off the Persian meddling there!).  The other things that would need to go to save money is the insane politics in the Pentagon and Congress in making defense expenditures (how, I dunno, a panel of retired general officers and qualified industry analysts review all submissions and fit it to authorized spending levels?) and competitive pricing, no more minority set-asides and other crony-capitalist BS!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2012, 12:00:49 PM »
Unfortunately, I think the military cuts won't be in $500 toilets or useless programs (for example, eco concerns are tracked in the military).  It will be in training and readiness and security.
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Online Libertas

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2012, 12:07:36 PM »
Unfortunately, I think the military cuts won't be in $500 toilets or useless programs (for example, eco concerns are tracked in the military).  It will be in training and readiness and security.


Yes.  But thanks for reminding me that there are costs to the social engineering and eco stuff too, savings aplenty if we dispense with that insanity too!
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Offline Glock32

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 12:15:39 PM »
I am at the point where I believe anything that weakens the US government must be a positive thing. If that means a weaker military? I hate to even be thinking that way, but yeah, maybe it is for the better. Nowadays I can't help but see the military and police as tools in Leviathan's arsenal...tools it will ultimately use against the citizenry.

Take armed drones for instance. That is one area of defense spending that will substantially increase regardless of overall cuts. It's something statists have fantasized about forever. A cheap, virtually invulnerable eye in the sky that can also eliminate human targets? They're becoming ubiquitous enough that pretty soon every square foot of this country will be under continuous surveillance, both visually and electronically.

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charlesoakwood

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2012, 12:25:21 PM »
Hopefully, a legitimate question, so don't spank me
It has been said that we spend more on defense than everyone else. Or something like that.
I know. I know. Some of the other country's numbers aren't included.

We have bases in a majority of the world's countries and fight endless wars with ridiculous rules of engagement.

The $800 toilet seat and $500 hammers

I would bet we could find some efficiencies that wouldn't hurt defense one bit.
Maybe Germany, Japan and Korea could pay for their own damn defense.

Also, I've seen it said that a lot of our adventurism is to keep the Saudis propped up

Aw hell, AP; I agree with you.  On all of it.  I believe we don't need all the bases we have currently; they could be reduced to a few/several strategic locations and be done with it.

To the ROE, don't even get me started.   ::outrage::

As for the last in particular, if we could get ahold of our own damn oil, we could let somebody else pay to keep the Saudis in their own gold toilet appointments.

Agree on all points.  Plus those comparative numbers are not comparative, the free ride Europe and others get via NATO and our presence there means more money for butter than guns for those clowns, time that free ride ends.  There is no need for NATO anymore, if we want (air) basing rights in England and Germany and (baval) basing rights in Spain & Italy, fine, lets lease it, but these obsolete organizations need to go.  Ashcanistan needs to be bailed on and Iraq can stand on their own (let the Saudi's fend off the Persian meddling there!).  The other things that would need to go to save money is the insane politics in the Pentagon and Congress in making defense expenditures (how, I dunno, a panel of retired general officers and qualified industry analysts review all submissions and fit it to authorized spending levels?) and competitive pricing, no more minority set-asides and other crony-capitalist BS!

Yes to all.  What we have today is a "realpolitic" military, it's time to clean house.  And LV is correct, as in the community going broke, the politicians cry they are going to cut police and fire services first. 

Online Libertas

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2012, 12:26:49 PM »
In fact I fear the reduction will expedite the non-human elements, and the more immoral humans controlling deadly inanimate objects...the freedom and liberty of citizens will be threatened like never before.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2012, 06:49:18 PM »

Offline John Florida

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2012, 07:19:05 PM »

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/05/conservative-group-launches-campaign-to-depose-boehner-from-speakership/
                                          ::praying::



  It would be nice to drop kick the stupid SOB back to where ever he came from.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2012, 08:17:00 PM »

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/05/conservative-group-launches-campaign-to-depose-boehner-from-speakership/
                                          ::praying::



  It would be nice to drop kick the stupid SOB back to where ever he came from.

From the look of him, that would be Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.





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Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2012, 03:57:38 AM »
My initial doubts arose from the inclusion of Walter Jones. I don't consider him all that conservative. Better than some, sure, but not so conservative to be included in a purge.  Yet, there is general agreement now that this is what happened. 

I support removing the Speaker.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2012, 08:35:59 AM »

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/05/conservative-group-launches-campaign-to-depose-boehner-from-speakership/
                                          ::praying::



All it takes is 16 abstaining from voting?  Not going to happen. This is soddom and Gomorrah and the number could be negotiated down to two and it won't happen......there is no rightous legislating there.
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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2012, 08:48:18 AM »
My initial doubts arose from the inclusion of Walter Jones. I don't consider him all that conservative. Better than some, sure, but not so conservative to be included in a purge.  Yet, there is general agreement now that this is what happened. 

I support removing the Speaker.

There is "general agreement" because those that have been purged were advised after the fact as to the why, thereby providing confirmation, and the why is just as it was said from the start.  And Walter Jones figures right in there, conservative or not, because he's been after military cuts for a long time.

So ......

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charlesoakwood

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2012, 01:40:38 PM »

Is there one (1) voting Republican that pays attention to David Frum?  Isn't he one of those writers who is posted in bathrooms for Democrat amusement?  And RNC directors, please God, help us.

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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2012, 02:34:43 PM »
What can the GOP hope to accomplish by sticking their thumb in the Tea Party eye besides irrelevance? The best they can hope for is a baseline going forward indicating exactly how irrelevant they are without a conservative electoral base.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2012, 02:45:00 PM »
What they want is a comfortable minority status. Just enough of a presence on Capitol Hill that Democrats will need their cooperation on certain major issues, but otherwise irrelevant. That's pretty much how it was for many years prior to the Reagan Revolution, and the old mandarins of the GOP have been doing everything to return to that mode.

I'm done with eating the GOP's sh*t-sandwich on the basis that theirs at least has sprinkles on it.




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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2012, 03:15:46 PM »
Criminy, I can smell that.

 ::barf::
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2012, 04:14:18 PM »
What can the GOP hope to accomplish by sticking their thumb in the Tea Party eye besides irrelevance? The best they can hope for is a baseline going forward indicating exactly how irrelevant they are without a conservative electoral base.

I think they're looking to "irrelevant" us.  I think they think if they go full-on hispandering, we can be replaced.  Perhaps not easily at first, but the more "hispanics" they can import, pay or bribe with amnesty to vote for them, the less our votes will matter.

Slightly off topice, I heard on the "news" just today that Mexicans make up 55% of our illegal alien population, with those from other Latin American countries comprising another 20%.

So, 75% of our illegal alien colonization is "hispanic" and we're neither supposed to take note of that nor object under the pain of the racism accusation.

Reacquaint yourself with this piece, from which I took this sample:

.... "Republican lawmakers we spoke with knew that naturalized Latin American immigrants and their offspring vote mostly for the Democratic Party, but still most of them (all except five) were unambiguously in favor of amnesty and of continued mass immigration (at least from Mexico). This seemed paradoxical, and explaining their motivations was more challenging. However, while acknowledging that they may not now receive their votes, they believed that these immigrants are more malleable than the existing American: That with enough care, convincing, and "teaching," they could be converted, be grateful, and become dependent on them. Republicans seemed to idealize the patron-client relation with Hispanics as much as their Democratic competitors did. Curiously, three out of the five lawmakers that declared their opposition to amnesty and increased immigration (all Republicans), were from border states.

Also curiously, the Republican enthusiasm for increased immigration also was not so much about voting in the end, even with "converted" Latinos. Instead, these legislators seemingly believed that they could weaken the restraining and frustrating straightjacket devised by the Founding Fathers and abetted by American norms. In that idealized "new" United States, political uncertainty, demanding constituents, difficult elections, and accountability in general would "go away" after tinkering with the People, who have given lawmakers their privileges but who, like a Sword of Damocles, can also "unfairly" take them away. Hispanics would acquiesce and assist in the "natural progress" of these legislators to remain in power and increase the scope of that power. In this sense, Republicans and Democrats were similar.

While I can recall many accolades for the Mexican immigrants and for Mexican-Americans (one white congressman even gave me a "high five" when recalling that Californian Hispanics were headed for majority status), I remember few instances when a legislator spoke well of his or her white constituents. One even called them "rednecks," and apologized to us on their behalf for their incorrect attitude on immigration. Most of them seemed to advocate changing the ethnic composition of the United States as an end in itself. Jefferson and Madison would have perhaps understood why this is so—enthusiasm for mass immigration seems to be correlated with examples of undermining the "just and constitutional laws" they devised."
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Online Libertas

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2012, 08:49:00 PM »
Doesn't matter how much candy they put on a turd, it's still a turd and should be flushed.  Let the flushing begin.  If they think they can live without us and more than make up the difference by pandering to unassimilating enclaves who will always go to the highest bidder (cough, Dem's!), then they are beyond insane.

GOP Klingons...

Let Them DIE!!!

"Let them die!"
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online Libertas

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2012, 09:02:26 PM »
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/12/06/sen_rand_paul_we_should_let_dems_raise_taxes_and_then_let_them_own_it.html

Rand, Speaker Boner & Crew ain't that smart and no where near that disciplined!  These are Ruling Class buttknockers running the party cheerfully into Hell using tactics once reserved for Stalinists like Pelosi, as Levin so eloquently points out.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline warpmine

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Re: "Fiscal cliff" - "Walk Away" Gaining Steam
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2012, 09:11:50 PM »
  Beck was right when he said that we had "Progressives on both sides"
But he was dead wrong in hoping it could all be done peacefully, it can't.
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