Topic: George W. Bush pushes for more immigration

[trapeze]

Didn't realize anyone here was arguing for the unfettered immigration of anyone.  I thought we were talking about legal immigration, I know I was.

 

I can only go on what was written.

CC said that, "Hispanics hate the GOP position on immigration, and we need their votes...So we need to re-tool our message on immigration."

"Retooling" means changing what is.

Now, the GOP position on immigration is not exactly set in stone. On the one hand you have the RINO's who want to open the southern border via amnesty. That is to say, grant amnesty to all the illegals currently in the US which, as history has more than adequately demonstrated, encourages even more illegal immigration...but this is a minority view among Republicans. The majority conservative base believes that our borders, especially the southern border, should be secure and that normal (legal) immigration paths should be the only way for non-Americans to gain entry. The base has other reasons for securing the border, restricting the inflow of drug traffickers and terrorists being chief among them.

So...given that the defacto GOP position on immigration (what the base wants) is pretty much the polar opposite of the Democrats, any "retooling" of that position means becoming more like the left. It is not much of a leap at all for the GOP position on immigration to be retooled to the point where we have a difference without a distinction.

And that would pretty much be unfettered immigration. Making it "legal immigration" is but a matter of Democrats and RINOs conspiring to pass comprehensive immigration reform.

Just words, really.

[trapeze]

And no, we do not need legal immigrants now, either.  We're f-cking broke, financially and immigration policy-wise.

I have to disagree with this position, too.

We want selective legal immigration. It should be our policy to poach the best people from other countries. It makes us stronger and it makes them weaker. We want their scientists and engineers. We want their monied venture capitalists. We want their best. If it was possible we should be exporting our losers to other countries.

But, noooooo! Our defacto policy is to let zillions of poor and stupid (but hard working) illegals into our country. They become instant welfare recipients and, thanks to massive, unacknowledged voter fraud, instant Democrat voters.

Up is down. Black is white. Right and wrong are merely a matter of perspective. Brave new world.

[RickZ]

Trap, my problem is that we need a cooling off period for immigration, a 5 year freeze if you will, like occurred in the latter 19th Century, so that we can assimilate what we already have.

I understand the idea of poaching the best and the brightest, but that is not the way Ogabe, or Congress for that matter, thinks.

Let us get our house in order before we start/continue adding more.

[Libertas]

Bottom line - We know Catholics of any racial background are not immune from voting for leftists whose goal is to destroy traditional American values, ideals and Founding principles.  We know immigrants (regardless of origin, religion or method of entry) are not all that interested anymore in assimilating into traditional America, the enclave model has replaced the melting pot model, I see hundreds and hundreds of unassimilated Mexicans on Lake St every day, shops advertise in Spanish, not English, there is no assimilation, there is nothing but the promise that a free sh*t America can give them.  You want their vote?  Offer them free sh*t, and then lets see how many r's win elections against d's!  Purposely courting any racial group is stupid, either the promises of liberty established by our Founders and your own hard work and determination are enough or it isn't.  If it isn't then you can KMA and stay/get out of my country!

[CatholicCrusader]

I am afraid I cannot drum up the same ferver to keep things "white" that you have.

That's out of line.

Is it? Perhaps you missed this little gem:

No.  We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics".  They're the largest "minority" group in the country -- is it 30% by now -- how many more do you want until we're the minority in our own country? Damn.

That sounds like a keep-it-white attitude to me. "We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics"". Yah, keep those feelthy taco benders out of here

[CatholicCrusader]

CC said that, "Hispanics hate the GOP position on immigration, and we need their votes...So we need to re-tool our message on immigration."

"Retooling" means changing what is.

If thats what it means then I chose the wrong word, because thats not what I meant.

I meant we need to present it in a way that they get it, and then present it forcefully with good speakers.

.......CC makes the GOP talking-point that the "natural home" for Hispanics is the GOP, because they're Catholic, pro-life, and anti-homosexual marriage. Last time I looked, "Catholic" was not an indicator of conservatism or Republican party affiliation. Catholicism as it is practiced by most Americans is pro-life liberalism, and that's how the majority of Catholics vote. And for the majority of Catholics, "pro-life" is less important that voting for Democrats. That's just the cold hard truth CC.......

You're right, and I should have left the "Catholic" part out of it. But it remains that they're mostly pro-life, and anti-homosexual marriage, and like all people want a prosperous place to live, and should be voting Republican.

And for that matter, the same goes for many blacks. In California, over 80 of blacks voted against gay marriage last time around, an uncomfortable fact for the Left which the Left tried to ignore. They should be voting GOP too, but they have been brainwashed.

[Alphabet Soup]

I am afraid I cannot drum up the same ferver to keep things "white" that you have.

That's out of line.

Is it? Perhaps you missed this little gem:

No.  We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics".  They're the largest "minority" group in the country -- is it 30% by now -- how many more do you want until we're the minority in our own country? Damn.

That sounds like a keep-it-white attitude to me. "We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics"". Yah, keep those feelthy taco benders out of here

And yet it is you who resorts to slanderous imputations of derogatory stereotype against another member. IMO it is beneath contempt and you should be ashamed of yourself.

What the hell is wrong with you?

[CatholicCrusader]

I am afraid I cannot drum up the same ferver to keep things "white" that you have.

That's out of line.

Is it? Perhaps you missed this little gem:

No.  We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics".  They're the largest "minority" group in the country -- is it 30% by now -- how many more do you want until we're the minority in our own country? Damn.

That sounds like a keep-it-white attitude to me. "We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics"". Yah, keep those feelthy taco benders out of here

And yet it is you who resorts to slanderous imputations of derogatory stereotype against another member. IMO it is beneath contempt and you should be ashamed of yourself.

What the hell is wrong with you?

If telling the truth is a slanderous imputation of derogatory stereotype, then guilty as charged. Apparently you are defending that racist post, which makes you no better.

If I call a person an a-hole, thats rude. If I call an a-hole an a-hole, then thats just telling it like it is.

So you tell me: What the hell is wrong with YOU!!?

[Alphabet Soup]

So you tell me: What the hell is wrong with YOU!!?

I have little time or patience for assholes or slackjawed trolls who slanderously paint with a broad brush. Enjoy your time here - I'm betting it will be short.

[IronDioPriest]

CC, it is not racist to observe that the uniquely American culture is undermined by indiscriminate illegal OR legal immigration from the third-world. The fact that they are Hispanic is beside the point. They are un-American, and we are not assimilating them to BE American. Further, they do not wish to be assimilated.

That is a threat to the uniquely American culture, and that culture has value. The only way that third-world immigration without thought to the effect on the American culture can be viewed as non-threatening is to deny that an American culture even exists, or that it is worth protecting and preserving.

[Magnum]

Excellent post IDP!

Yes American values are EXCEPTIONAL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Nn4IH3yng4k#!

BTW: Pandora and Alphabet Soup are my friends and our country would be so much better off to have more of them and their values among our midst. I know I would be honored and truly blessed if they were my neighbors.

[TeachX3]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, hasn't the United States of America, since it's birth, been the 'leader of the free world', THE example of Sovereignty?  Well, in the past few hundreds of years, those in the rest of the world that have been 'something else', have continued on down their path and our nation has slowly been joining 'them', it is one of the biggest things conservatives fight against, right?  We (the U.S.) are becoming luke warm, more socialist (because of removing God and His morals, values, etc... IMO, but that's another thread)... I agree with many posters here, immigration needs to currently be halted and 'fixed' before resuming.  FENCE.  I don't give a crap what color or nationality one is, IF they want to be here, a complete and truthful Constitution and History Test must be taken before consideration.  They must know WHY we are Sovereign, and WHY we are the envy of the world before being allowed to participate in OUR culture.  Of course, this would include education in our own schools... and well, that is a whole different problem.

[trapeze]

If telling the truth is a slanderous imputation of derogatory stereotype, then guilty as charged. Apparently you are defending that racist post, which makes you no better.

If I call a person an a-hole, thats rude. If I call an a-hole an a-hole, then thats just telling it like it is.

So you tell me: What the hell is wrong with YOU!!?

Are you sure you want to go here? Think on it. The clock is ticking.

[Glock32]

Just so there is no ambiguity, I am calling for "keep it white".  Only the self-delusional can perceive no difference between the civilizations created and perpetuated by white people, and those created by others. Is it a coincidence that Europe is what it is, Africa is what it is, and the Middle East is what it is?  It's the latitude and longitude maybe? The pro-immigration argument might have had some merit back when this country was still self-assured enough to expect the burden of assimilation to be the immigrant's, but those days are long, long gone. Post-1965 immigration is nothing more than colonization with the aim of displacing the original population. In light of that, I couldn't care less how proficient they might be at pulling lettuce heads out of the ground.

I am speaking only for myself here and am not putting words in anyone's mouth, so if you want to accuse anyone of racism I will happily take those arrows. It has been this country's fatal conceit since 1965 that it can just open itself up to mass immigration from all over the world and not fundamentally transform itself in the process. I don't even see how that is up for debate, because many urban swaths of this country have in fact already been transformed. You want this for the entire country? I most definitely do not.

[trapeze]

One need only look at the policies and public statements of La Raza (literally "the race") to understand the south of the border influx problem as it truly is. It is, as Glock32 stated, an attempt at colonization.

[Pandora]

I am afraid I cannot drum up the same ferver to keep things "white" that you have.

That's out of line.

Is it? Perhaps you missed this little gem:

No.  We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics".  They're the largest "minority" group in the country -- is it 30% by now -- how many more do you want until we're the minority in our own country? Damn.

That sounds like a keep-it-white attitude to me. "We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics"". Yah, keep those feelthy taco benders out of here

You are treading on thin ice, pal.  I didn't call them "feelthy taco benders", you did.  I'm *asking* that you do not twist my words like that again.

Now, I'm going to point something out to you that you apparently fail to grasp -- another thing:

We cannot allow the importation of a large cohort of *any* population -- even allowing for assimilation -- particularly one with a different culture, and expect to be the same country.  The Statue of Liberty will still be here (maybe) and The Empire State Building, the Grand Canyon, Mt. Rushmore, and a lot of the infrastructure will make the United States LOOK like it always has, but it will not be once the traditional American population is replaced.  This would apply to Germans or the Swiss or Norwegians, not just Mexicans.  An overwhelmingly Swiss America will not be America.

I don't know about you, but I have a problem with that.  So does Mexico, for instance, which is why immigrants are not allowed to participate in their political process nor own property; they want to keep Mexico for the Mexicans.

We have every right in the world to want to keep our own country, where those who are native-born and those born of European descent/Western are the majority -- nobody that I'm aware of sees any problem with that as regards .... Mexico, Nigeria, Germany ... except for the muslims and their traitorous Western-born accomplices -- so to call it wrong because it's US is a faulty premise promoted by the Left.

You want to respond to any of the several points I've made on this thread, instead of your less-than-amusing practice of moving on to your next talking point, and then resorting to the race card.

Try the one where I linked to a piece that laid out how your Mexican Catholics are not so much Catholic these days and are no longer such staunch opposers of abortion and homosexual "marriage".

[trapeze]

Well said, Pandora. And I am thoroughly impressed with your patience and restraint.

[Pandora]

Well said, Pandora. And I am thoroughly impressed with your patience and restraint.

Thank you very much, trap. 

I am making an effort to not take out on this guy my rage and frustration at the results of the election and the ongoing transformation of my country, hoping that a reasoned explanation instead will give him pause.

But if anybody else wields the ban-hammer, should it become necessary, ahead of me, I'm comin' to yer house.   

[trapeze]

Well said, Pandora. And I am thoroughly impressed with your patience and restraint.

Thank you very much, trap. 

I am making an effort to not take out on this guy my rage and frustration at the results of the election and the ongoing transformation of my country, hoping that a reasoned explanation instead will give him pause.

But if anybody else wields the ban-hammer, should it become necessary, ahead of me, I'm comin' to yer house.   

Well first of all you know that I always play out more than enough rope before going in that direction so it wouldn't happen too quickly from me. And of course I know that you can take care of yourself quite handily and need no assistance from me.

As sort of an FYI to all members, we are never eager to wield the ultimate conversation ender here at IAL...it is a last resort. We are especially not eager to use it on someone who has been here for many months and has contributed many, many useful posts, contributed useful and valuable points, etc. Members here are afforded every opportunity to screw up and then to retreat from, let's say, awkward situations. Thankfully, our members are of an extremely high quality and this almost never happens to begin with. But we're all human so every once in a while it does.

And for the benefit of CC...The ball is squarely in your court, CC. What you do next is entirely your choice. Choose wisely.

[CatholicCrusader]

I have little time or patience for assholes or slackjawed trolls who slanderously paint with a broad brush. Enjoy your time here - I'm betting it will be short.

I love how you use slackjawed slander to attack what you perceive as slackjawed slander. Nothing like a healthy dose of hypocrisy in the morning.

CC, it is not racist to observe that the uniquely American culture is undermined by indiscriminate illegal OR legal immigration from the third-world. The fact that they are Hispanic is beside the point. They are un-American, and we are not assimilating them to BE American. Further, they do not wish to be assimilated..........

Fair point, and I agree with you. And if he had said it the way you just did then it would not have raised my eyebrow.

But the focus of the post was not on those things, but rather on their ethnicity. Hence my reaction.

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned we have all said our peace on this tangential issue. Maybe we should get back to the topic.

And for the benefit of CC...The ball is squarely in your court, CC. What you do next is entirely your choice. Choose wisely.

I choose to speak my mind and call things as I see them. Thats what is called the free exchange of ideas. If the free exchange of ideas can get me banned then it is of no matter, because I do not want to be anywhere where the the free exchange of ideas is condemned, especially if those ideas are honest and with merit.

EDIT: And one other thing, maybe you guys should consider how things might sound to other peoples' ears. I know myself that I have said things to people and those people have gotten mad at me, and I was totally dumbfounded as to why. Whatever I said sounded innocent enough to me, but apparently it was received differently by others. So consider this post once again:

"We don't need any more Mexicans, nor "hispanics".  They're the largest "minority" group in the country -- is it 30% by now -- how many more do you want until we're the minority in our own country? Damn."

Are you trying to tell me that you cannot see how that might be received by someone else's ears? Seriously? If it was not meant to be racist, then fine; I'll accept that. But you should also accept how such a post can be perceived. My perception of it was an understandable one, and therefore my response was reasonable.