Topic: Raisin' Cain

[charlesoakwood]

Would you have a Muslim in your cabinet or appoint as a judge?
"No."

What is the role of Islam in America?
"The role of Islam in America is for them to practice it and leave us alone."


Herman Cain refuses to appoint a Muslim in his administration

[LadyVirginia]

"The role of Islam in America is for them to practice it and leave us alone."

YES! 

And by the way, I'm sick of every card-carrying, whiny member of some diversity intiative being scooted up to the table so they can steal their "share" contribute. Ya got something to contribute?  You can start by following the Constitution and acting like an American instead of some 3rd world leader's fantasy.

[IronDioPriest]

I like his spunk, and I agree with his goal, but coming right out and saying it puts him in conflict with Article VI, paragraph 3. That's the kind of thing a candidate should approach artfully...

"I would welcome all Americans of any religion into my administration as long as they believe that we are in government to serve the constitution only, and no other document or ideology. Next question."

[LadyVirginia]

I like his spunk, and I agree with his goal, but coming right out and saying it puts him in conflict with Article VI, paragraph 3. That's the kind of thing a candidate should approach artfully...

"I would welcome all Americans of any religion into my administration as long as they believe that we are in government to serve the constitution only, and no other document or ideology. Next question."

You're right.  I'm sure he'll reword that next time.

[IronDioPriest]

I like his spunk, and I agree with his goal, but coming right out and saying it puts him in conflict with Article VI, paragraph 3. That's the kind of thing a candidate should approach artfully...

"I would welcome all Americans of any religion into my administration as long as they believe that we are in government to serve the constitution only, and no other document or ideology. Next question."

You're right.  I'm sure he'll reword that next time.

I hope so. I like Herman, a lot. But this is the second or third time I've heard him say things that didn't need to be said. The first was an essay at RedState where he basically made the case that Jesus was a conservative and if you're a Christian you can't be a liberal. I happen to agree with him. But it's a battle line that doesn't need to be drawn if you hope to capture the GOP nomination. You have to pick your battles, and make decisions about what needs to be said and what doesn't. I'm not talking about compromising principles, just choosing when to speak, and how to speak.

He's a great champion of conservative values. Every now and then he makes me cringe because he doesn't seem to have filters. Some would call that authenticity. I appreciate authenticity. But I see a statement like this more as clumsy politics. We ARE the party of the constitution after all, and his statement - while wise - cannot be official government policy in any overt capacity. If such a policy were enacted, it would have to be one of those things that a President just implements, and doesn't speak of.

Let the pundits wring their hands over why President Cain hasn't appointed any 'Slims. But you just can't come out and announce it as policy.

[charlesoakwood]

I hope so. I like Herman, a lot. But this is the second or third time I've heard him say things that didn't need to be said. The first was an essay at RedState where he basically made the case that Jesus was a conservative and if you're a Christian you can't be a liberal. I happen to agree with him. But it's a battle line that doesn't need to be drawn if you hope to capture the GOP nomination. You have to pick your battles, and make decisions about what needs to be said and what doesn't. I'm not talking about compromising principles, just choosing when to speak, and how to speak.

It is so very refreshing to hear straightforward answers.* 
"No", How many pages would gNewt, or Boehner have taken to answer the question? 
As for as completely correct in line with every word of the Constitution, that's a high bar that no one with a comprehensible answer (of the cuff) has done.

Capturing the GOP nomination, those words mean acceptance of John Cornyn, Mitch McConnell et al. We spend much though, time,and words how to get around the entrenched Party process that continually serves up "Johnny Macks" locally and nationally.

We Americans are in this terrible position because of too much artful language and not enough clear talk and rational thought.   

*Our very best; Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Allen West, Hermann Cain are all guilty
of being straightforward humans, the rest...

[IronDioPriest]

I hope so. I like Herman, a lot. But this is the second or third time I've heard him say things that didn't need to be said. The first was an essay at RedState where he basically made the case that Jesus was a conservative and if you're a Christian you can't be a liberal. I happen to agree with him. But it's a battle line that doesn't need to be drawn if you hope to capture the GOP nomination. You have to pick your battles, and make decisions about what needs to be said and what doesn't. I'm not talking about compromising principles, just choosing when to speak, and how to speak.

It is so very refreshing to hear straightforward answers.*  
"No", How many pages would gNewt, or Boehner have taken to answer the question?  
As for as completely correct in line with every word of the Constitution, that's a high bar that no one with a comprehensible answer (of the cuff) has done.

Capturing the GOP nomination, those words mean acceptance of John Cornyn, Mitch McConnell et al. We spend much though, time,and words how to get around the entrenched Party process that continually serves up "Johnny Macks" locally and nationally.

We Americans are in this terrible position because of too much artful language and not enough clear talk and rational thought.  

*Our very best; Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Allen West, Hermann Cain are all guilty
of being straightforward humans, the rest...

You know I appreciate straightforwardness and authenticity. I just want someone like Cain to get elected!!! If he goes around saying that he would hold cabinet and judicial appointees to an unconstitutional litmus test, that won't happen. I want him to stay true to himself AND be smart about what he says. He could as easily have said what I hypothetically posed above ("I would welcome all Americans of any religion into my administration as long as they believe that we are in government to serve the constitution only, and no other document or ideology), made the exact same point, and remained completely true to himself, the constitution, and committed to his principles. Instead he threw out this red meat that calls into question his commitment to or understanding of the constitution.

[charlesoakwood]

Possibly so, maybe such a direct answer was so refreshing I missed a long term error.

Concerning the nominating of any of the best choice, it will not happen unless the Pubbie PTBs are hogtied or we make and end run around them.  It is obvious they are not going quietly into the night.  This Tea Party revolution must succeed or we will get Mitt Romney
or less.  The America we knew will be irretrievable.

[IronDioPriest]

Cain is currently a radio talk show host. His comment was perfectly suited for that venue. But there's a reason radio hosts don't typically make the transition. They lob red meat for effect. Cain is a gentleman and less inflammatory than most, so he could possibly make the transition, but I just think (my opinion, not fact) that he's shown a couple instances where he doesn't use the best judgment in articulating his positions - IF the Presidency is something he wants to do.

[LadyVirginia]

I think it's possible to stand firm on principles and still be tactful.

I do it.     (in public -- um, maybe not when posting lol)


and I ain't nuttin special.   

[IronDioPriest]

I think it's possible to stand firm on principles and still be tactful....

Not only is it possible, but it is a requirement for a successful national politician, with very few exceptions.

[IronDioPriest]

Drew at AoSHQ says:

Alternate title: Herman Cain: I Promise To Violate My Oath Of Office Before I Even Get To Take It.

This is the problem with politically untested, boutique candidates...they say dumb stuff.

I think fighting expansionist Islam is as much, if not more, a social challenge than a military one. We can not allow people to misrepresent political Islam, lie about Islam's history in America or it's importance to the fabric of this country. On that score, I'm with Cain.

That said, announcing that you will violate the "No religious tests" clause of the Constitution is simply wrong and shows either a lack of familiarity with parts of the Constitution or a willingness to skip parts that don't work for you. When you become President, you don't get to enforce just the bits you like, you swear to "preserve, protect and defend" all of it. Even Article VI, even as applied to Muslims.

[Pandora]

Drew at AoSHQ says:

Alternate title: Herman Cain: I Promise To Violate My Oath Of Office Before I Even Get To Take It.

This is the problem with politically untested, boutique candidates...they say dumb stuff.

I think fighting expansionist Islam is as much, if not more, a social challenge than a military one. We can not allow people to misrepresent political Islam, lie about Islam's history in America or it's importance to the fabric of this country. On that score, I'm with Cain.

That said, announcing that you will violate the "No religious tests" clause of the Constitution is simply wrong and shows either a lack of familiarity with parts of the Constitution or a willingness to skip parts that don't work for you. When you become President, you don't get to enforce just the bits you like, you swear to "preserve, protect and defend" all of it. Even Article VI, even as applied to Muslims.

Publicly, yes.

One doesn't need to openly violate the Constitution as does Duh Wun, however; how issues are managed behind-the-scenes is another matter entirely. 

[trapeze]

Alan Keyes looked very attractive and viable as a candidate at one point. Now he is considered a fringe nut...even by most on the right...thanks to his own uncontrolled speech.

Would he have made a good elected official? Almost certainly thanks to the extremely low bar set by so many incumbents who currently warm seats in Congress. Almost certainly because, although he was his own worst enemy when it came to expressing his beliefs, he was/is a conservative at heart and he could probably be counted on to do the right thing more often than not. And batting better than 500 is a vast improvement on other "right wing patriots" currently in office.

I see Herman Cain as a wiser and more accomplished candidate than Keyes. But he is still an amateur at politics. And like it or not, the road to elective office is a political one.

It's not enough to be a conservative. It's not enough to be a success in the world of business. It's not enough to be able to speak well in public. It requires all of those things but also the ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly. Even the very best at the game make the occasional gaffe and, if you are a Democrat or to a lesser extent an incumbent Republican, it's possible to recover from that. Democrat challengers can say darn near anything ("good looking, clean, articulate" or "hymie town" both come to mind) and get away with it. Republican incumbents not so much ("macaca"). Republican challengers must be perfect. Or they will be eviscerated by the press and will be the victims of out-of-context political campaign ads.

That's not fair but it is reality. Can Herman Cain get the nomination and win the WH? Sure. It's possible. But it isn't likely.

Apart from unforced errors such as the one that starts this thread, he also suffers from the handicap of being an outsider. And yes, like it or not, that is a handicap. Palin suffered under just such a handicap during the campaign when she was stupidly attacked by voices from the right. Even though she was an elected Republican governor she was not part of the establishment and was mercilessly skewered at every available opportunity. Cain has never before held an elective office and thus is handicapped that much more.

So...much as I would love to see a true outsider, a true conservative elected to the WH and as much as I appreciate Herman Cain, I have absolutely no illusions as to his chances of making that dream a reality.

[Alphabet Soup]

When you become President, you don't get to enforce just the bits you like, you swear to "preserve, protect and defend" all of it. Even Article VI, even as applied to Muslims.

Uhm....someone needs to talk to "da Won".  

[Alphabet Soup]

Spot on Trap. Øbozo is the ultimate expression of why we don't need no "dark horses" and untested administrators. The job is too important to entrust to idiots and loose cannons. Øbozo may be book smart (or so he would have us believe) but he has proven himself street stupid. The left kept telling us that GW was a dolt but he proved himself to be street smart....and book smart as well.

Politically he proved to be a moderate but that moderation is looking pretty good right about now 

Personally, I don't think Cain is "ready for prime time". 

[Glock32]

The underlying problem here is that we're expected to offer the Constitution's guarantees of religious freedom to something that is no religion in the sense the Founders had when drafting the Constitution. It does not reciprocate the spirit of freedom and separateness from the State.

Suppose a group decided they wanted to reincarnate ancient Aztec religions, complete with dutifully offering human sacrifices to their pantheon. We'd be under no obligation to recognize and accept it as a religion. I see Islam the same way. I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest by a Constitutional amendment enacted solely for the purpose of declaring Islam excluded from any considerations offered other religions.

[Libertas]

He needs to learn Takkiya...say it the right way, then don't hire any.

Message sent.

[trapeze]

Øbozo may be book smart (or so he would have us believe)...

I honestly cannot say that I have seen any evidence to prove this. Neither in the form of high school and college transcripts or in real world examples.

Please remember that although no one demanded to see GWB's education documents, his grades were common knowledge. The press did demand to see darn near everything regarding GWB's draft status and his military performance and discharge documentation. Our current president was promoted by the press as the smartest guy to ever have run for or become elected to the office of the presidency and we have yet to see any proof. Zero. Zip. Nada.

I would also be extremely interested in verifiable IQ test results. I would be surprised if he scored much over 100 based on what I have seen to date. Smart power, indeed.

[LadyVirginia]

we have yet to see any proof. Zero. Zip. Nada.

I agree with you.  I remember hearing so many people proclaiming how smart he was during the campaign.  My conclusion is that they were just dumber than him.