Topic: Raisin' Cain

[Pandora]

Which isn't saying much for them or him.

[IronDioPriest]

we have yet to see any proof. Zero. Zip. Nada.

I agree with you.  I remember hearing so many people proclaiming how smart he was during the campaign.  My conclusion is that they were just dumber than him.

[charlesoakwood]

Alan Keyes looked very attractive and viable as a candidate at one point. Now he is considered a fringe nut...even by most on the right...thanks to his own uncontrolled speech.

Before he ran for office I witnessed a debate between he and Alan Dershowitz, I will not call a winner but it was an excellent contest.  

Later when he ran for office, the seat formerly occupied by Barack Obama I believe, he appeared a clown. I was shocked at the split personality of performance.  

I see Herman Cain as a wiser and more accomplished candidate than Keyes. But he is still an amateur at politics. And like it or not, the road to elective office is a political one.

It's not enough to be a conservative. It's not enough to be a success in the world of business. It's not enough to be able to speak well in public. It requires all of those things but also the ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly.

We may hope but if the presidency depended on "he ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly", well, we sure as heck wouldn't have had the last four presidents.

...

So...much as I would love to see a true outsider, a true conservative elected to the WH and as much as I appreciate Herman Cain, I have absolutely no illusions as to his chances of making that dream a reality.

We are either going to get an outsider or a retread.

[IronDioPriest]

I think Cain could still catch a favorable wind. I just think he needs to understand that what he says and how he says it matters. Ace has it right: "Herman Cain: I Promise To Violate My Oath Of Office Before I Even Get To Take It." That is the essence of this statement by Cain, and it didn't need to be.

[Predator Don]

I think Cain could still catch a favorable wind. I just think he needs to understand that what he says and how he says it matters. Ace has it right: "Herman Cain: I Promise To Violate My Oath Of Office Before I Even Get To Take It." That is the essence of this statement by Cain, and it didn't need to be.

 I'm not sure they got it right. I believe this headline to be sensationalist in nature. Honestly, it is the exact conclusion the left wants conservatives to take. We discount and minimalize our own...we get the re tread. I do not expect perfection from my candidates. The liberal media does and sometimes, even our own conservative media outlets.....That's not to state I don't care to break the Constitution, but it was one honest answer we all believe... I don't think anyone here would ignore the Constitution to make it so.....Neither would Cain, I believe.

He spoke off the cuff ( not a sin in my book)....It does not mean he would lead in this manner. I take the guy to be honest and sincere, but not a usurpter of the Constitution.

It's time to quit eating our own over a statement or comment. The responsible approach would be to get hold of his people (if he has people) and point out the error......

Not jump to the (liberal) conclusion of:


I Promise To Violate My Oath Of Office Before I Even Get To Take It."

Does anyone really believe he this to be true?

[IronDioPriest]

...Does anyone really believe he this to be true?

I believe he meant what he said. I believe he meant it because he reaffirmed it, saying it is exactly how he feels. He said point blank that he would in essence cast aside Article VI paragraph 3 of the constitution as it relates to Islam. I also believe he meant it because he expresses my feelings on the matter exactly. I don't think it's an extreme position to believe that Islam belongs nowhere near the levers of American government. I think it's common sense.

So yeah, I do believe it to be true. I think Herman Cain would not appoint a Muslim, and good on him for it. But to come out and say it as a candidate when the constitution prohibits actually putting such an idea into official practice is shooting himself in the foot.

[charlesoakwood]

I believe he said it in the context as he described it.
An organized group intent in taking over our judicial system and our government.
ETA: There is no reason to confer any Constitutional rights to them.

I agree with Don.  It appears to be another circle forming. This moment around Cain.

[Predator Don]

...Does anyone really believe he this to be true?

I believe he meant what he said. I believe he meant it because he reaffirmed it, saying it is exactly how he feels. He said point blank that he would in essence cast aside Article VI paragraph 3 of the constitution as it relates to Islam. I also believe he meant it because he expresses my feelings on the matter exactly. I don't think it's an extreme position to believe that Islam belongs nowhere near the levers of American government. I think it's common sense.

So yeah, I do believe it to be true. I think Herman Cain would not appoint a Muslim, and good on him for it. But to come out and say it as a candidate when the constitution prohibits actually putting such an idea into official practice is shooting himself in the foot.

Oh, I believe he meant every word.....But I believe he could accomplish his (and my/ our) goal without circumventing the Constitution. I took it as a strong statement.... He was clear and consistant with his thought. "In essence", isn't necessarily throwing the Constitution under the bus.

I didn't like the headline. It does throws him under the bus, so to speak. The headline puts words in his mouth, an assumption of guilt.

I do not believe Mr Cain would violate his oath of office. It is the root of my question over the headline.

[trapeze]

I see Herman Cain as a wiser and more accomplished candidate than Keyes. But he is still an amateur at politics. And like it or not, the road to elective office is a political one.

It's not enough to be a conservative. It's not enough to be a success in the world of business. It's not enough to be able to speak well in public. It requires all of those things but also the ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly.

We may hope but if the presidency depended on "the ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly", well, we sure as heck wouldn't have had the last four presidents.

I would have to say that Billy Jeff was is pretty good at crafting brilliant and duplicitous statements on the fly. He was is a true craftsman in that regard. A gifted liar.

I would give Reagan high marks for being able to ad lib on just about anything and sound wise and reasonable. Or hilarious if that was his intention. He wasn't called "The Great Communicator" for nothing.

[trapeze]

I do not expect perfection from my candidates.

And yet, because the right is held to a (ridiculously) higher standard by the MFM we usually (although not always...McCain....Dole) end up with a superior candidate. The media thoroughly vets our candidates, usually at the primary level, so that there is literally nothing left in the closet for the general election.

Conversely, the MFM invests a staggering amount of effort covering for the left. Unfortunately for them the new media makes their conniving tactics less relevant with each passing year.

So that's the glass half full point of view.

[Predator Don]

I believe he said it in the context as he described it.
An organized group intent in taking over our judicial system and our government.
ETA: There is no reason to confer any Constitutional rights to them.

I agree with Don.  It appears to be another circle forming. This moment around Cain.

God...Thank You...I'm not the best explaining my point.....But in context, that is what I was lookin for...LOL

I don't want to eat this guy up and spit him out. I want to take what he said in context, understanding I don't believe he would sully the Constitution.

And the headline....Pronounces him guilty.....

[charlesoakwood]

I see Herman Cain as a wiser and more accomplished candidate than Keyes. But he is still an amateur at politics. And like it or not, the road to elective office is a political one.

It's not enough to be a conservative. It's not enough to be a success in the world of business. It's not enough to be able to speak well in public. It requires all of those things but also the ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly.

We may hope but if the presidency depended on "he ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly", well, we sure as heck wouldn't have had the last four presidents.

I would have to say that Billy Jeff was is pretty good at crafting brilliant and duplicitous statements on the fly. He was is a true craftsman in that regard. A gifted liar.

I would give Reagan high marks for being able to ad lib on just about anything and sound wise and reasonable. Or hilarious if that was his intention. He wasn't called "The Great Communicator" for nothing.

Exactly.  Maybe I missed one, I thought, counting back, Reagan was the fifth.
Obama, Bush 43, Clinton, Bush 41, Reagan; or am I'm having a massive senior moment?

[Predator Don]

I do not expect perfection from my candidates.

And yet, because the right is held to a (ridiculously) higher standard by the MFM we usually (although not always...McCain....Dole) end up with a superior candidate. The media thoroughly vets our candidates, usually at the primary level, so that there is literally nothing left in the closet for the general election.

Conversely, the MFM invests a staggering amount of effort covering for the left. Unfortunately for them the new media makes their conniving tactics less relevant with each passing year.

So that's the glass half full point of view.

But yet, in this "vetting" process, we have candidates such as Cain deemed "unqualified"......Because he can't spell potato.

Guess its the glass half empty...LOL

[trapeze]

Speaking of politically incorrect things to say about muslims and islam, this was just posted at AceOfSpades by Ace himself:

Bear in mind that the 12th Imam, according to these maniacs, can only come if they blaze the fires of war and chaos all over the world.

While saner mystics might look for omens and portents, this particular Religion of Madmen holds that mystics can create the circumstances necessary for the return of their blood-soaked savoir, and of course the circumstances needed are (what else is new with Muslims?) murder and mayhem.*

But Ace isn't running for president, is he?


*a statement with which I wholeheartedly agree.

[trapeze]

I do not expect perfection from my candidates.

And yet, because the right is held to a (ridiculously) higher standard by the MFM we usually (although not always...McCain....Dole) end up with a superior candidate. The media thoroughly vets our candidates, usually at the primary level, so that there is literally nothing left in the closet for the general election.

Conversely, the MFM invests a staggering amount of effort covering for the left. Unfortunately for them the new media makes their conniving tactics less relevant with each passing year.

So that's the glass half full point of view.

But yet, in this "vetting" process, we have candidates such as Cain deemed "unqualified"......Because he can't spell potato.

Guess its the glass half empty...LOL

You meant "Quayle," I think. And the truth was that he was using the incorrect spelling on the "answer" cards given him by a school spelling bee. Almost anyone would have made the same mistake given the circumstances. This is what I mean when I say that the right is ALWAYS held to a ridiculously high standard. And, yeah, it was a shame that he was dismissed as a lightweight because he was a true conservative. But also true is that this was not his only gaffe. Quayle was gaffe prone...not to the degree of Biden who is the gold standard for gaffes...but enough that he was low hanging fruit for the MFM. Give them the ammunition and they will shoot at you mercilessly every single time.

[Predator Don]

I do not expect perfection from my candidates.

And yet, because the right is held to a (ridiculously) higher standard by the MFM we usually (although not always...McCain....Dole) end up with a superior candidate. The media thoroughly vets our candidates, usually at the primary level, so that there is literally nothing left in the closet for the general election.

Conversely, the MFM invests a staggering amount of effort covering for the left. Unfortunately for them the new media makes their conniving tactics less relevant with each passing year.

So that's the glass half full point of view.

But yet, in this "vetting" process, we have candidates such as Cain deemed "unqualified"......Because he can't spell potato.

Guess its the glass half empty...LOL

You meant "Quayle," I think.

I did....Just using him as an example of the idiocy of the media. Totally meaningless...sullied for life and many conservatives jumped on board.

Cain's admission is not meaningless, but we seem to be jumping him for an opinion most hold.

[trapeze]

That would be the Juan Williams defense..."everyone thinks that." And yes, it's true, but it is still an unforced error. The rules of the game are well known. It is irrelevant that the rules are different for Democrats versus Republicans. They are the rules and they always will be until the MFM has a brain transplant. Which will be either not in our lifetimes or never, whichever comes last.

[IronDioPriest]

I believe he said it in the context as he described it.
An organized group intent in taking over our judicial system and our government.
ETA: There is no reason to confer any Constitutional rights to them.

I agree with Don.  It appears to be another circle forming. This moment around Cain.

God...Thank You...I'm not the best explaining my point.....But in context, that is what I was lookin for...LOL

I don't want to eat this guy up and spit him out. I want to take what he said in context, understanding I don't believe he would sully the Constitution.

And the headline....Pronounces him guilty.....

I don't want to cast aspersion on Cain. He's among my favorites of all who are possibly running. And I'm not trying to be overly argumentative with you fellas either. But I think I have a point that bears reiterating, so here goes...

Charles, you feel that criticizing him on this is somewhat of a circular firing squad, and Don, you feel that the AoSHQ headline is unfair in its pronouncement of guilt re; Cain's disregard for the constitution. But if you believe their characterization is unfair, just go with the actual headline, sans editorial embellishment:
[blockquote]"Herman Cain says he would not appoint Muslims to cabinet or judiciary positions."[/blockquote]
Take that headline at face value (because it's exactly what he said, in context), and compare it to:
[blockquote]The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.[/blockquote]

How does one arrive at the conclusion that Cain's pronouncement - whether he meant it literally or not - does not run contradictory to Article VI paragraph 3? And if I can at least get an acknowledgment that his statement DOES run contrary to Article VI paragraph 3, then does it not follow that the statement should not have been made by someone serious about seeking the office of the Presidency?

I think he can move beyond this because of all his other strengths. I hope he does. I pray he does. I guess all I'm saying is, loose lips sink ships.

I'll hang up and listen off the air.  

[radioman]

It doesn't run counter to the constitution because Islam is NOT a religion. And we need to cram that point home until the sun don't shine.

[trapeze]

I see Herman Cain as a wiser and more accomplished candidate than Keyes. But he is still an amateur at politics. And like it or not, the road to elective office is a political one.

It's not enough to be a conservative. It's not enough to be a success in the world of business. It's not enough to be able to speak well in public. It requires all of those things but also the ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly.

We may hope but if the presidency depended on "he ability to craft brilliant and correct statements on the fly", well, we sure as heck wouldn't have had the last four presidents.

I would have to say that Billy Jeff was is pretty good at crafting brilliant and duplicitous statements on the fly. He was is a true craftsman in that regard. A gifted liar.

I would give Reagan high marks for being able to ad lib on just about anything and sound wise and reasonable. Or hilarious if that was his intention. He wasn't called "The Great Communicator" for nothing.

Exactly.  Maybe I missed one, I thought, counting back, Reagan was the fifth.
Obama, Bush 43, Clinton, Bush 41, Reagan; or am I'm having a massive senior moment?

I wasn't counting Toonces as one of the "last" four but rather the current occupant. Simply a matter of interpretation. No harm, no foul. And no, the boob-in-chief can't talk about anything spontaneously other than his NCAA bracket picks. And I believe that is because it is the only subject that he is thoroughly familiar and comfortable with.