Author Topic: Raisin' Cain  (Read 7171 times)

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Online Pandora

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2011, 05:55:04 PM »
I believe he said it in the context as he described it.
An organized group intent in taking over our judicial system and our government.
ETA: There is no reason to confer any Constitutional rights to them.

I agree with Don.  It appears to be another circle forming. This moment around Cain.



God...Thank You...I'm not the best explaining my point.....But in context, that is what I was lookin for...LOL

I don't want to eat this guy up and spit him out. I want to take what he said in context, understanding I don't believe he would sully the Constitution.

And the headline....Pronounces him guilty..... ::gaah::

I don't want to cast aspersion on Cain. He's among my favorites of all who are possibly running. And I'm not trying to be overly argumentative with you fellas either. But I think I have a point that bears reiterating, so here goes...

Charles, you feel that criticizing him on this is somewhat of a circular firing squad, and Don, you feel that the AoSHQ headline is unfair in its pronouncement of guilt re; Cain's disregard for the constitution. But if you believe their characterization is unfair, just go with the actual headline, sans editorial embellishment:
[blockquote]"Herman Cain says he would not appoint Muslims to cabinet or judiciary positions."[/blockquote]
Take that headline at face value (because it's exactly what he said, in context), and compare it to:
[blockquote]The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.[/blockquote]

How does one arrive at the conclusion that Cain's pronouncement - whether he meant it literally or not - does not run contradictory to Article VI paragraph 3? And if I can at least get an acknowledgment that his statement DOES run contrary to Article VI paragraph 3, then does it not follow that the statement should not have been made by someone serious about seeking the office of the Presidency?

I think he can move beyond this because of all his other strengths. I hope he does. I pray he does. I guess all I'm saying is, loose lips sink ships.

I'll hang up and listen off the air.  ::thumbsup:: ::beertoast::

The question was:  "Would you be comfortable appointing .... "  Cain answered, "No.  I will not."

As in, no I will not be comfortable, perhaps?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2011, 06:08:53 PM »
....The question was:  "Would you be comfortable appointing .... "  Cain answered, "No.  I will not."

As in, no I will not be comfortable, perhaps?

Perhaps. Let's even assume it to be exactly what he meant. It still raises the specter of a religious litmus test, doesn't it? He could have said the exact same thing by saying, "There will be no religious litmus test in a Herman Cain administration. The ONLY litmus test will be strict adherence to the constitution, and no other documents or ideologies."
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline John Florida

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2011, 06:13:24 PM »
...Does anyone really believe he this to be true?
I believe he meant what he said. I believe he meant it because he reaffirmed it, saying it is exactly how he feels. He said point blank that he would in essence cast aside Article VI paragraph 3 of the constitution as it relates to Islam. I also believe he meant it because he expresses my feelings on the matter exactly. I don't think it's an extreme position to believe that Islam belongs nowhere near the levers of American government. I think it's common sense.

So yeah, I do believe it to be true. I think Herman Cain would not appoint a Muslim, and good on him for it. But to come out and say it as a candidate when the constitution prohibits actually putting such an idea into official practice is shooting himself in the foot.

 Both feet and I think he's sunk!
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2011, 06:25:28 PM »
How come we can see this and fellas like Cain can't? 
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

charlesoakwood

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2011, 07:08:55 PM »
....The question was:  "Would you be comfortable appointing .... "  Cain answered, "No.  I will not."

As in, no I will not be comfortable, perhaps?

Perhaps. Let's even assume it to be exactly what he meant. It still raises the specter of a religious litmus test, doesn't it? He could have said the exact same thing by saying, "There will be no religious litmus test in a Herman Cain administration. The ONLY litmus test will be strict adherence to the constitution, and no other documents or ideologies."

It raises the question whether he will appoint a member of a group to the judiciary whose guiding document, the Koran, commands them to kill all infidels who will not submit to the will of Allah.

He said, no, they are the enemy and I will not appoint an enemy of the United States of America to any office.

God Bless Him

 




Offline trapeze

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2011, 07:23:52 PM »
I saw him being interviewed this afternoon by Neil Cavuto. Cavuto very carefully and gently steered him into qualifying his statement. What he ended up saying was that he would appoint no one who he had doubts about as regards their allegiance to the United States and the Constitution. He admitted, when specifically asked, that he would appoint a muslim with whom he was confident as to their allegiance.

So there. Problem settled.  Except it isn't. Once said by someone on the right, these things can never be unsaid and they will be resurrected ad infinitum if he ever becomes viable.

In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

charlesoakwood

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2011, 07:38:17 PM »
...

... Once said by someone on the right, these things can never be unsaid and they will be resurrected ad infinitum if he ever becomes viable.



Good, I hope they ask it till the cows come home, and shout it from the top of the hill. America sick of these people and the death and disruption
they have caused and are causing America.  It's high time we had a leader who will directly and unapologetically confront this problem.

ETA: They should follow up with the question:  Do you approve of the Mosque being built in NY at the Twin Towers site?


Offline Predator Don

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2011, 08:19:40 PM »
That would be the Juan Williams defense..."everyone thinks that." And yes, it's true, but it is still an unforced error. The rules of the game are well known. It is irrelevant that the rules are different for Democrats versus Republicans. They are the rules and they always will be until the MFM has a brain transplant. Which will be either not in our lifetimes or never, whichever comes last.


My issue with the whole Cain controversy was the headline used....Sure, the rules are well known, but must we 1) play by those rules 2) Accept those rules....I don't think we should.

Whether it was an unforcd gaffe or a calculated statement used to force a re visit and get his name out a bit more...I don't want to play by those rules as I don't want to discount or shy away from a candidate who shares my views. The headline indicates a gaffe.....or worse, he would willingly subvert the Constitution. It is an assertion I do not agree. It was pure sensationalism.

We complain about our Bonhers of today with no spine, but here we are, buying in to the headline and imo, acting as spineless as todays conservative leadership. We share his view...I don't care who's defense it is. I don't want some liberal setting the agenda for my candidates, no matter how much they are vetted by said liberals...or for that fact, no matter what they tell me is "dirty" about my candidate.

I'm not disagreeing Cain is wrong or made a mistake...... I disagree wholeheartily this is any reason to marginalize his candidacy. If we do, we bought in....Liberals win because they make the rules.
I'm not always engulfed in scandals, but when I am, I make sure I blame others.

Online Pandora

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2011, 08:32:00 PM »
I stand with Predator Don.

Let the chips fall .........
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline trapeze

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2011, 09:18:37 PM »
It's a bit early to be closing the lid on anyone's candidacy. Cain can actually build upon this notoriety if he is cagey enough. I would say that the one thing he has in his favor in this situation is his race. A male caucasian could never get away with what he said. It plays directly into the "conservatives are white male racists" theme. As a conservative black male he will at the very least have an opportunity to explain himself. And that increases his exposure.

It is entirely possible that he said what he said for the express purpose of drawing attention to himself and his campaign, all the while knowing that he would have to artfully perform damage control. The problem is that I don't know what I don't know. I know enough about Cain to be intrigued, to tentatively take him seriously as a candidate. But I don't know much else. If he can somehow make this work then he would be a bit of a prodigy with the media and we haven't had someone like that since, well, since Reagan.

It sure would be nice to have someone who can say what he wants and pay little or no price for it.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2011, 09:30:21 PM »
....It sure would be nice to have someone who can say what he wants and pay little or no price for it.

Boy, you can sure say that again.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2011, 04:57:20 PM »

I have no political experience, those in office have.  How's that working out for you?

3:40 notice that jive music in the back ground

“Anybody Who Takes the Oath of Office in My Administration Will Put Their Hand on the Bible, Not the Koran”…

Herman Cain Interview


Online Pandora

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2011, 05:38:55 PM »
He's consistent, got to give him that, and on the rightful, proper side of the issues.

I don't quite recognize the music, though .......  ::angel::
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline John Florida

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2011, 05:55:40 PM »
He's consistent, got to give him that, and on the rightful, proper side of the issues.

I don't quite recognize the music, though .......  ::angel::

 Sarc tags please
All men are created equal"
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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2011, 07:41:56 PM »
I for one have had enough of anyone who will not say"if elected I will........ or i'll quit so help me GOD"
Rule #1 Trust no one
Rule #2 Trust no one
Rule #3 refer to #1 and #2
We are what we elect, stupid!!!

Offline John Florida

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Re: Raisin' Cain
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2011, 08:13:56 PM »
I for one have had enough of anyone who will not say"if elected I will........ or i'll quit so help me GOD"
Rule #1 Trust no one
Rule #2 Trust no one
Rule #3 refer to #1 and #2

 You'll find that were not that trusting to start with. Welcome.
All men are created equal"
 Filippo Mazzie