Author Topic: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons  (Read 1766 times)

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« on: January 04, 2013, 06:33:46 PM »
Get Divorced for Tax reasons

Because I don't need the state to enforce my marriage, and with No-Fault divorce laws, I am not protected as a Male anyway.  Not to mention that leaves my wife penniless and forced to go on the dole..

Online Pandora

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 07:06:34 PM »
We've discussed it.
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 07:23:41 PM »
In my opinion - as well as in my marriage - there is a sacred vow before God, our families, and the public attached to the commitment. To divorce - DIVORCE - because the government makes it more difficult to be married is, in my opinion, not only ceding government's victory, it is handing it to them. Such destruction is exactly what they want.

Stay married, please, unless you do not love your spouse.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 08:01:07 PM »
In my opinion - as well as in my marriage - there is a sacred vow before God, our families, and the public attached to the commitment. To divorce - DIVORCE - because the government makes it more difficult to be married is, in my opinion, not only ceding government's victory, it is handing it to them. Such destruction is exactly what they want.

Stay married, please, unless you do not love your spouse.
If I get a divorce I will still be married. I need God's sanction. I need my families sanction. I need my friend's sanction.  I do not need the Government to sanction it.

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 08:54:13 PM »
Divorce is the best diet known to man.  How else can you get rid of 130 ugly pounds with the stroke of a pen?

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2013, 09:29:21 AM »
In my opinion - as well as in my marriage - there is a sacred vow before God, our families, and the public attached to the commitment. To divorce - DIVORCE - because the government makes it more difficult to be married is, in my opinion, not only ceding government's victory, it is handing it to them. Such destruction is exactly what they want.

Stay married, please, unless you do not love your spouse.
If I get a divorce I will still be married. I need God's sanction. I need my families sanction. I need my friend's sanction.  I do not need the Government to sanction it.


My opinion is different than that. To me, marriage is more than a promise between individuals. It is the recognition of the promise by society.

Were you to get divorced, I would not recognize you and Michelle O as married. Now, obviously, your response to that would be that I am neither God, a family member, or a personal friend (as in face-to-face, although I do consider you a friend). But regardless of your personal criteria, it is mine - looking in from without - that is the criteria that defines marriage in a society and its place within the society.

If marriage is a fundamentally important institution for the furtherance of traditional family values, Judeo-Christian values, the role-modeling of healthy male-female ideals in children, etc, then how society views the institution and the individual marriages within the institution is of vital importance.

I view your marriage worth protecting because I view marriage as a whole worth protecting - because the society needs foundational strength, and marriage has always been the bedrock of that foundation. I don't wish to cede that foundation to the government that seeks to destroy it, based on a justification that says even if government destroys the institution around my ears I can do what's best for me in defiance. To me, the defiance is in saying no - you can attempt to destroy the institution, but this cornerstone will not be crumbled in my home.



"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 06:47:11 AM »
Divorce is the best diet known to man.  How else can you get rid of 130 ugly pounds with the stroke of a pen?

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 09:21:15 AM »

My opinion is different than that. To me, marriage is more than a promise between individuals. It is the recognition of the promise by society.


The government is not equivalent to "society"  - My "Society"  would be my friends, my family, my community.  In our wedding ceremony our Pastor made everyone in the pews promise to support our marriage. They are my "society"  - because I went to the courthouse and revoked a piece of paper in no way changes the vows I took or the commitment I made. It merely nullifies the official contract I filed with the State that would allow me to invoke govt power to enforce that contract, or deal with its dissolution.  In real life I would go get the required Power of attorney and other documents required to make us defacto married, just as Gay couples do.  

Were you to get divorced, I would not recognize you and Michelle O as married. Now, obviously, your response to that would be that I am neither God, a family member, or a personal friend (as in face-to-face, although I do consider you a friend). But regardless of your personal criteria, it is mine - looking in from without - that is the criteria that defines marriage in a society and its place within the society.

I personally would be a bit  hurt if you chose to not see us as Married because I didn't have a piece of paper from the State saying so, because I do consider you my friend.  You  are right, that you are in charge of your own criteria. I am just not clear on why you are defining society the way you are..

If marriage is a fundamentally important institution for the furtherance of traditional family values, Judeo-Christian values, the role-modeling of healthy male-female ideals in children, etc, then how society views the institution and the individual marriages within the institution is of vital importance.--I view your marriage worth protecting because I view marriage as a whole worth protecting - because the society needs foundational strength, and marriage has always been the bedrock of that foundation. I don't wish to cede that foundation to the government that seeks to destroy it, based on a justification that says even if government destroys the institution around my ears I can do what's best for me in defiance. To me, the defiance is in saying no - you can attempt to destroy the institution, but this cornerstone will not be crumbled in my home.


And if the State is corrupt, does that not sully the institution? When the institution of Marriage is used as a cudgel to extort more tax revenue, is that not degrading the institution? When the state is itself hostile to the institution , is it not foolish to allow the State to be the keeper of the official records?   Is that not ceding to it the authority to decide who is and who is not married? I deny that they have any such right. Marriage belongs to We the People.

This is why the Gay Marriage debate has always been stupid to me. Any one can declare themselves married. Anyone can pray before God and ask his blessing of the Union. Anyone can take a vow before their society of friends and ask them to help them uphold it.  Making the government the arbiter of such things takes the decisions from "Society" and places them in the hands of a corrupt, hostile, power-hungry elite, who then will use the govt as a weapon to force others to recognize the marriage.  It degrades it.  Such force won't make you or I recognize a Gay Marriage as legitimate in our own eyes, but the force of govt may make us pretend we do so, and for liberals that is enough. Obedience and servitude to their ideals  is the  goal.

 If Marriage is valuable ( and I agree with you that it is) then, like all religious precepts,  it should stand on its own. It should not need the power of the state to perpetuate it - only the guarantee the State will not interfere - as it is doing now my charging a Marriage tax, which is really no different than the "faith tax" on contraception being put into Obamacare. The govt really shouldn't recognize Marriage at all- other than as a Civil contract between two private parties. Instead Marriage status used to determine welfare benefits,  taxation rates and any number of other things - giving the Govt more control over the institution and what it "means"
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 10:05:53 AM by Weisshaupt »

Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 08:51:04 PM »


I am not sure what a Weissshaupt is, but I know a wise man when I hear him.



My opinion is different than that. To me, marriage is more than a promise between individuals. It is the recognition of the promise by society.


The government is not equivalent to "society"  - My "Society"  would be my friends, my family, my community.  In our wedding ceremony our Pastor made everyone in the pews promise to support our marriage. They are my "society"  - because I went to the courthouse and revoked a piece of paper in no way changes the vows I took or the commitment I made. It merely nullifies the official contract I filed with the State that would allow me to invoke govt power to enforce that contract, or deal with its dissolution.  In real life I would go get the required Power of attorney and other documents required to make us defacto married, just as Gay couples do.  

Were you to get divorced, I would not recognize you and Michelle O as married. Now, obviously, your response to that would be that I am neither God, a family member, or a personal friend (as in face-to-face, although I do consider you a friend). But regardless of your personal criteria, it is mine - looking in from without - that is the criteria that defines marriage in a society and its place within the society.

I personally would be a bit  hurt if you chose to not see us as Married because I didn't have a piece of paper from the State saying so, because I do consider you my friend.  You  are right, that you are in charge of your own criteria. I am just not clear on why you are defining society the way you are..

If marriage is a fundamentally important institution for the furtherance of traditional family values, Judeo-Christian values, the role-modeling of healthy male-female ideals in children, etc, then how society views the institution and the individual marriages within the institution is of vital importance.--I view your marriage worth protecting because I view marriage as a whole worth protecting - because the society needs foundational strength, and marriage has always been the bedrock of that foundation. I don't wish to cede that foundation to the government that seeks to destroy it, based on a justification that says even if government destroys the institution around my ears I can do what's best for me in defiance. To me, the defiance is in saying no - you can attempt to destroy the institution, but this cornerstone will not be crumbled in my home.


And if the State is corrupt, does that not sully the institution? When the institution of Marriage is used as a cudgel to extort more tax revenue, is that not degrading the institution? When the state is itself hostile to the institution , is it not foolish to allow the State to be the keeper of the official records?   Is that not ceding to it the authority to decide who is and who is not married? I deny that they have any such right. Marriage belongs to We the People.

This is why the Gay Marriage debate has always been stupid to me. Any one can declare themselves married. Anyone can pray before God and ask his blessing of the Union. Anyone can take a vow before their society of friends and ask them to help them uphold it.  Making the government the arbiter of such things takes the decisions from "Society" and places them in the hands of a corrupt, hostile, power-hungry elite, who then will use the govt as a weapon to force others to recognize the marriage.  It degrades it.  Such force won't make you or I recognize a Gay Marriage as legitimate in our own eyes, but the force of govt may make us pretend we do so, and for liberals that is enough. Obedience and servitude to their ideals  is the  goal.

 If Marriage is valuable ( and I agree with you that it is) then, like all religious precepts,  it should stand on its own. It should not need the power of the state to perpetuate it - only the guarantee the State will not interfere - as it is doing now my charging a Marriage tax, which is really no different than the "faith tax" on contraception being put into Obamacare. The govt really shouldn't recognize Marriage at all- other than as a Civil contract between two private parties. Instead Marriage status used to determine welfare benefits,  taxation rates and any number of other things - giving the Govt more control over the institution and what it "means"

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 09:54:05 PM »


I am not sure what a Weissshaupt is, but I know a wise man when I hear him.


Thank you for the compliment. Not sure I am "wise" yet, but I keep trying. IDP probably doesn't think so, and the institution (and the underlying culture)  is so weak now that however much it <SHOULD> be able to stand on its own- at this point, it probably can't, so I do understand at least a portion of IDPs concerns.

However, I  can explain what a Weisshaupt is or at least how I came to use the moniker.


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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 10:33:36 PM »
...Not sure I am "wise" yet, but I keep trying. IDP probably doesn't think so, and the institution (and the underlying culture)  is so weak now that however much it <SHOULD> be able to stand on its own- at this point, it probably can't, so I do understand at least a portion of IDPs concerns...

I hear and understand all your arguments, and you've caused me to think about some things. My support for traditional marriage and my resistance to its undermining by the government is very fundamental, coming from an admittedly visceral understanding of the building blocks of civilized culture. It is a foundation that must be defended from attack because in general terms, it fosters good, and it's absence fosters evil.

From where that sanction comes is something aside from the idea that it should be defended. And if the body that sanctions it is corrupt and bent on its destruction, then perhaps it is only logical to step back from that sanction and look to other societal structures to sanction its legitimacy.

I get that idea, and can't disagree with it entirely. But I also think that it cedes the loss, without a fight. Without defenders - first among them, those who are in strong marriages - the government will indeed succeed in destroying the institution for all practical purposes. A society without marriage as a bedrock will certainly crumble.

Which, of course, your argument will be that it is already crumbled, and we're just waiting for the fallout to see what's left. To that point, I have no rebuttal but hope and whatever preparation I can muster.
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 10:52:39 PM »


I am not sure what a Weissshaupt is, but I know a wise man when I hear him.


Thank you for the compliment. Not sure I am "wise" yet, but I keep trying. IDP probably doesn't think so, and the institution (and the underlying culture)  is so weak now that however much it <SHOULD> be able to stand on its own- at this point, it probably can't, so I do understand at least a portion of IDPs concerns.

However, I  can explain what a Weisshaupt is or at least how I came to use the moniker.




Well I was totally off then. I always interpreted it to mean something akin to "knowledge base" (i.e. the information construct), coming from the German "wissen" (conjugate form "weiss") + "haupt" for "base" or "main / central".
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 11:23:03 PM »
Which, of course, your argument will be that it is already crumbled, and we're just waiting for the fallout to see what's left. To that point, I have no rebuttal but hope and whatever preparation I can muster.

No, it hasn't crumbled, at least not yet.  As long as there is still one couple who understand and  fulfill the duties of Marriage, the institution exists, and we stil have way more than just one.  The  govt, however,  is actively seeking to destroy it. I would deny them such control by taking it from their hands. This comes down to liberals and words. To them, words mean whatever they want them to mean when they say them. Its like the  mad hatter from Alice and Wonderland, and I refuse to put my marriage ( its definition and meaning)  into the hands of and Tweedledee and Just plain Dumb.  Let their control of such things burn.  If they render it meaningless, it will be so for them.  No so for us.  Marriage is an inalienable right, given to us by our creator,  not something the govt can grant or deny.


Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2013, 11:26:03 PM »
Well I was totally off then. I always interpreted it to mean something akin to "knowledge base" (i.e. the information construct), coming from the German "wissen" (conjugate form "weiss") + "haupt" for "base" or "main / central".

I always intended to look up the German roots.. but never did.  I like my choice of moniker more and more. Even if none if it is intentional.

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 11:27:01 AM »
Well I was totally off then. I always interpreted it to mean something akin to "knowledge base" (i.e. the information construct), coming from the German "wissen" (conjugate form "weiss") + "haupt" for "base" or "main / central".

I always intended to look up the German roots.. but never did.  I like my choice of moniker more and more. Even if none if it is intentional.

Somehow I managed to miss the thread where you revealed the logic behind your moniker (like so much else that I manage to miss). I had imagined something similar to Glock32's reasoning.

As for mine, someone (elsewhere) criticized me for posting "Gibberish, just a combination of letters, like an alphabet soup". Suitably chastened  :o I adopted the phrase as my moniker. I proudly wear the appellations of my enemies like a shield - just cuz it pisses them off  ;)


Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 11:29:52 AM »
Back to the topic - I guess I should have known something was up when wife #2 advocated a "technical divorce" for "tax purposes". Little did I know what else was waiting in the wings.....

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2013, 11:37:18 AM »
Back to the topic - I guess I should have known something was up when wife #2 advocated a "technical divorce" for "tax purposes". Little did I know what else was waiting in the wings.....

 Marriage only works when both people keep their side of the bargain, and if the threat of force and loss is the only thing that keeps you on the straight and narrow the Marriage is  already in trouble. For liberals rules always come from without- from threat of force ,and you only have to follow the ones where you can't find a way of escaping the consequences. They don't have a sense of right and wrong, and certainly don't feel beholden to keep a oath.  They don't have the concept of not doing something because they know it is "wrong." and they don't want to look at themselves in the mirror the next day .
 


Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: Getting Divorced for Tax Reasons
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2013, 11:38:56 AM »
As for mine, someone (elsewhere) criticized me for posting "Gibberish, just a combination of letters, like an alphabet soup". Suitably chastened  :o I adopted the phrase as my moniker. I proudly wear the appellations of my enemies like a shield - just cuz it pisses them off  ;)

I always guessed it was a reference to the alphabet soup of govt agencies  ( EPA, FBI, IRS, etc etc)