Author Topic: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?  (Read 4183 times)

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Offline BigAlSouth

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No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« on: March 29, 2011, 05:52:02 PM »
Was anyone else as shocked as I in seeing video footage of smoldering tanks and military vehicles in Libya? I reasonably assume that coalition pilots were wholly responsible for the carnage as the rebels lack the weaponry or firepower to take out so many assets. The declared "No Fly Zone" has become a kill zone for Libyan soldiers loyal to Moammar Qaddafi.

Part of the United Nations Resolution states:

A no-fly zone is "an important element for the protection of civilians as well as the safety of the delivery of humanitarian assistance and a decisive step for the cessation of hostilities in Libya".

It "demands the immediate establishment of a ceasefire and a complete end to violence and all attacks against, and abuses of, civilians" and "that the Libyan authorities comply with their obligations under international law ... and take all measures to protect civilians and meet their basic needs, and to ensure the rapid and unimpeded passage of humanitarian assistance".


According to internet media, A-10 Warthogs and AC-130 Spectre Gunships are assets being used against the Libyan Army.

If, according to the Pentagon, these aircraft are “not being used in direct support of the opposition” forces, did they just sent them there on target practice? No. The Pentagon may pretend that these airplanes are not providing close air support to the rebel forces but the fact is that, when you take one of Gaddafi’s tank out of the way, you are directly supporting the opposition. Perhaps not in a coordinated way, but in a definitive way nonetheless.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/03/why-are-spectres-and-warthogs-attacking-gaddafis-forces-now/

Not exactly in line with the UN Resolution. This begs the question: Without war being declared by the United States (or by NATO, bless Obama's little heart), are American military personnel in danger of being charged with war crimes for acting outside the scope of UN Resolution 1973? What if a plane goes down and the crew is captured? Does Qaddafi get his show trial or summary execution of American Airmen?

I will also throw out another concern. The UN Resolution also includes verbiage to the effect that foreign troops on the ground are outside the scope of the Resolution. The coalition is authorized to "take all necessary measures … to protect civilians … under threat of attack … while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory".

If you do not believe that U.S. military personnel are on the ground in Libya as I write this, you are so, so naive. There are spotters there from ANGLICO, or special ops guys, or CIA types, or U.S. Army Rangers, or Navy Seals. ON THE GROUND IN LIBYA. Because that is the way it is done.

*ETA: Cross-posted at Red State, tnx guys
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 05:02:31 AM by BigAlSouth »
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charlesoakwood

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 07:16:19 PM »

It's a situation only Obama could contrive.
The reprieve for our Service Men is to convict Obama.
And if Boehner will not bring charges convict him.

If this advantage is not exploited *we will be.

*We as a Nation and we as individuals.



Offline Glock32

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 08:56:30 PM »
If I were one of those pilots I would be having major qualms about killing tanks and trucks for the benefit of what are, in all likelihood, al-Qaeda affiliated "rebels". I imagine Obama has a little smirk on his face at the thought of ordering American military to aid his jihadi allies.
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Offline trapeze

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 09:01:04 PM »
BigAl has this posted over at RedState (here). Sure would be nice if a few of you guys would pop on over there and "recommend" it. IDP and I have done so already. And yeah, I post under a different name there but you will see the IAL advert at the bottom of my comment.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 09:06:24 PM by trapeze »
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 06:41:55 AM »
The problem for the rebels is that the personnel you describe are NOT on the ground . ( I stopped being naive after my first date in high school )  There is no coordination between ground and air , consequently the "kills" of Libyan armour and artillery have been , by and large , opportunistic . Hence the retreat yesterday which turned into a wild and confused route ... A-10s and AC-130s notwithstanding .

I agree , though , with much of the former . The MSM is busy trying to both cover for Stymie and define what they've come to dub "The Obama Doctrine" . " Doctrines " , as we understand them historically , are defined as " statements of fundamental government policy uniformly applied ". A better applellation would be  "The Stymie Rule" wherein force is used against a second or third rate power with reasonable expectation of a positive outcome . Obviously this must be selectively applied since it wouldn't work against a country like Syria without tremendous loss of life on both sides and the risk of escalation into a major conflagration .

The concerns about the consequences regarding international law are well founded but become moot in conflicts like this where "war" is no longer "war" and our "friends" may well wind up being our "enemies" . Welcome to Alice's Wonderland !

 ::oldman::

Offline Libertas

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 08:27:41 AM »
Stymie's Wonderland Wasteland

 ::facepalm::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 09:10:02 AM »
Stymie's Wonderland Wasteland

 ::facepalm::

Now why the hell didn't I think of that ?   ;D

Online Pandora

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 11:55:58 AM »
Stymie's Ethiopia.  Hitler didn't need the conquest of Ethiopia; he did it to demonstrate the strength of his "vision" in Germany's future as an empire.

Furthermore, this fustercluck has taken our attention off domestic issues - and what his merry band of thugs is still up to here.  For instance, the FDA is now "concerned" about the effect of food coloring on hyperactivity in "children" and wants the issue re-examined.
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 12:04:07 PM »
Color me blue .  ::eyes::

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 12:11:18 PM »
BigAl has this posted over at RedState (here). Sure would be nice if a few of you guys would pop on over there and "recommend" it. IDP and I have done so already. And yeah, I post under a different name there but you will see the IAL advert at the bottom of my comment.

tried a half dozen times to post with no luck... :(
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Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 05:05:54 PM »
BigAl has this posted over at RedState (here). Sure would be nice if a few of you guys would pop on over there and "recommend" it. IDP and I have done so already. And yeah, I post under a different name there but you will see the IAL advert at the bottom of my comment.

tried a half dozen times to post with no luck... :(

Did you register first?
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 05:11:26 PM »
BigAl has this posted over at RedState (here). Sure would be nice if a few of you guys would pop on over there and "recommend" it. IDP and I have done so already. And yeah, I post under a different name there but you will see the IAL advert at the bottom of my comment.

tried a half dozen times to post with no luck... :(

Did you register first?

RedState has about a 1 day waiting period between registering an account and the ability to post. Not sure why, but it is what it is.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2011, 05:36:08 PM »

RedState has about a 1 day waiting period between registering an account and the ability to post. Not sure why, but it is what it is.

Okay, thanks. 
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 06:04:34 PM »
Tried to register...all the cool names were taken (that's what happens on the big sites)  ::doh::

Online Pandora

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 06:18:54 PM »
Tried to register...all the cool names were taken (that's what happens on the big sites)  ::doh::

Did you try "John the Perforator"?  Kinda like that one m'self.
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Offline Alphabet Soup

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2011, 06:25:59 PM »
Tried to register...all the cool names were taken (that's what happens on the big sites)  ::doh::

Did you try "John the Perforator"?  Kinda like that one m'self.

Gosh. You know - that one slipped my mind  ;D

It would be nice if they'd let me browse their member list. I guess it's like piglosi says - you gotta vote for it before you can see what's in it  ;)

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2011, 09:09:06 AM »
I just read that Obama signed an order allowing the CIA to begin operations, including "vetting" the rebels for AQ operatives.

Feel better now? /s
The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2011, 09:11:20 AM »
I just read that Obama signed an order allowing the CIA to begin operations, including "vetting" the rebels for AQ operatives.

Feel better now? /s

I wonder what the assessment team will come up with ... " They need close air-support..."  ?!?

Offline Libertas

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2011, 09:35:23 AM »
I just read that Obama signed an order allowing the CIA to begin operations, including "vetting" the rebels for AQ operatives.

Feel better now? /s

I wonder what the assessment team will come up with ... " They need close air-support..."  ?!?

Give them our best weapons, and react in mock surprise when they "disappear" after the dust settles!  Yeah, the perfect Regime answer!

 ::mooning::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2011, 01:24:23 PM »

Operation GunRunner part deux.