Author Topic: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?  (Read 4180 times)

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Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2011, 03:39:59 PM »
CIA operative to 1000 AQ "Rebels" in Libya:

Hey, y'all stand over there in a bunch. Gotta take a picture of you with this here laser thingy. No, move back a click. Yeah. That's right. Almost. Don't pay no attention to that whistling sound . . .
The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living
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Online Libertas

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2011, 05:52:59 PM »
 ::thumbsup::

 ::whoohoo::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2011, 04:37:03 AM »
One size fits all .  ::rockethrow::

Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2011, 06:25:15 AM »
Don't want to say I done told y'all so, but . . .

Quote
Former CIA officers who have worked on the region said they believed the operatives are gathering intelligence on the Libyan opposition forces, to help better assess who the rebels are and what are their capabilities and organization structures, to inform U.S. decision-making including on possibly training them. Additionally, the former officials say, CIA personnel would be helping identify targets for precision air strikes. And,
Air-strike logistics will also be a critical component of the CIA mission, the former intelligence said. "In the paramilitary world, where you've got an air campaign, you need what are called FACs—forward air controllers—someone who can provide coordinates [for targets]," he explained. "In modern warfare, you don't drop 1,000 bombs to hit one target."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/20110331/ts_yblog_theenvoy/questions-loom-about-cia-role-in-libya

What? What did I say March 29?

Quote
There are spotters there from ANGLICO, or special ops guys, or CIA types, or U.S. Army Rangers, or Navy Seals. ON THE GROUND IN LIBYA. Because that is the way it is done.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 06:28:26 AM by BigAlSouth »
The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living
are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend; the friend of my enemy is, well, he is just a dumbass.

Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2011, 06:52:26 AM »
Don't want to say I done told y'all so, but . . .


What? What did I say March 29?

Quote
There are spotters there from ANGLICO, or special ops guys, or CIA types, or U.S. Army Rangers, or Navy Seals. ON THE GROUND IN LIBYA. Because that is the way it is done.

That part hasn't happened ... yet .

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2011, 07:21:24 AM »
Don't want to say I done told y'all so, but . . .


What? What did I say March 29?

Quote
There are spotters there from ANGLICO, or special ops guys, or CIA types, or U.S. Army Rangers, or Navy Seals. ON THE GROUND IN LIBYA. Because that is the way it is done.

That part hasn't happened ... yet .

I believe I've read that it has SH. Unless I'm wrong, the story broke a couple days ago that Obama had already given his approval for these CIA operations - it was leaked, if I remember correctly - and then yesterday it was formally announced that he had already given the "Mother May I" approval.

You have a different understanding?
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2011, 07:28:47 AM »
Don't want to say I done told y'all so, but . . .


What? What did I say March 29?

Quote
There are spotters there from ANGLICO, or special ops guys, or CIA types, or U.S. Army Rangers, or Navy Seals. ON THE GROUND IN LIBYA. Because that is the way it is done.

That part hasn't happened ... yet .

I believe I've read that it has SH. Unless I'm wrong, the story broke a couple days ago that Obama had already given his approval for these CIA operations - it was leaked, if I remember correctly - and then yesterday it was formally announced that he had already given the "Mother May I" approval.

You have a different understanding?

I've already stated my "understanding" .  "Ground to air coordination" hasn't begun yet . For the moment they are "assessing" the rebels ( rabble ) . "Spotting" will most certainly follow and you can also count on the presence of MI6 and some SAS ( the former instructors of Ghadaffi's  "Special Forces" ) . That is my only point .

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2011, 08:03:17 AM »
Don't want to say I done told y'all so, but . . .


What? What did I say March 29?

Quote
There are spotters there from ANGLICO, or special ops guys, or CIA types, or U.S. Army Rangers, or Navy Seals. ON THE GROUND IN LIBYA. Because that is the way it is done.

That part hasn't happened ... yet .

I believe I've read that it has SH. Unless I'm wrong, the story broke a couple days ago that Obama had already given his approval for these CIA operations - it was leaked, if I remember correctly - and then yesterday it was formally announced that he had already given the "Mother May I" approval.

You have a different understanding?

I've already stated my "understanding" .  "Ground to air coordination" hasn't begun yet . For the moment they are "assessing" the rebels ( rabble ) . "Spotting" will most certainly follow and you can also count on the presence of MI6 and some SAS ( the former instructors of Ghadaffi's  "Special Forces" ) . That is my only point .

OK. So you're not saying they aren't going to do this, only that they haven't begun yet.
 ::thumbsup::
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Libertas

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2011, 08:05:35 AM »
I agree with SH.  The Spooks are snooping and gathering info, if they send in "spotters" then SpecOp's will infiltrate and take point on that, but I don't think they've gone that far.  Plus, like I mentioned earlier, Daffy is making deployments using civilian vehicles and such, so spotters would have a harder time pinpointing his forces even from the ground.  I think the amateurs in the WH are still fighiting among themselves and being cautious...which bodes well for Daffy...since he wants to run the string out.
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Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2011, 08:11:26 AM »
I have no grounds to disagree with either of you fellas. At this point I'm here to learn. I was only relating my understanding based on the news I heard, and I'm happy to be corrected.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2011, 08:41:07 AM »
I don't know if we can say for 100% certain what is or isn't, but looking at the situation logically and applying what little info we do have, it seems likely SpecOp's types are not yet deployed in this theatre.  Now, it is entirely possible that we are being blown smoke up our rears and they are in place, but I would think if that were the case the pace of air attacks would be higher and the effectiveness greater than it appears right now.

And for myself I am hoping I am right, I don't want our best being wasted in Libya for nothing, because in the end, this fustercluck will result in Daffy still in power or radical muzzies in ascendancy...ensuring either one isn't worth a single life of ours!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2011, 09:57:04 AM »
Blackfive has a good posting on the ground situation.

http://www.blackfive.net/main/
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2011, 10:41:37 AM »
There would be no way to call in a proper Fire Mission for this retreating rabble without the risk of being captured yourself and they aren't going to let that happen . Things have to stabilze a little first and it doesn't look like THAT'S going to happen very soon either .

Online Libertas

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2011, 10:57:08 AM »
Ya got that right.

Duh Wun really put his Duh all over this deal, eh?!

 ::unknowncomic::
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Offline BigAlSouth

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2011, 12:31:27 PM »
From the BlackFive link provided by Libertas:

Quote
Think about it - what is the hardest thing to distinguish?  Whether or not a civilian vehicle is occupied by good guys or bad guys – or neither.  Make your side pretty much identical from the air to the other side or just regular civilians and it makes the job the coalition has undertaken much harder.  That’s precisely what the Gadhafi troops have done.

This would make utilizing "spotters" or forward air control all the more necessary. And . . .

Quote
Finally, we find out today that the CIA is operating among the rebels.  Given their huge history of success in these sorts of endeavors, that has to give you a warm fuzzy feeling, huh?  And while I wouldn’t technically claim it violates Obama’s “no boots on the ground” pledge, it does stretch it a bit.

My point exactly. When does Stymie stop stretching?
The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living
are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2011, 01:02:17 PM »
There would be no way to call in a proper Fire Mission for this retreating rabble without the risk of being captured yourself and they aren't going to let that happen . Things have to stabilze a little first and it doesn't look like THAT'S going to happen very soon either .

Online Libertas

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2011, 01:15:58 PM »
There would be no way to call in a proper Fire Mission for this retreating rabble without the risk of being captured yourself and they aren't going to let that happen . Things have to stabilze a little first and it doesn't look like THAT'S going to happen very soon either .

But these are Stymie's people!  Where's the risk?

 :P
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Offline Sectionhand

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2011, 01:51:34 PM »
Why don't we just place our bets and wait for the After Action Report ?   ::thumbsup::

charlesoakwood

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2011, 09:28:48 PM »
Why don't we just place our bets and wait for the After Action Report ?   ::thumbsup::

That sounds reasonable.

I bet after action intel will show that there have been men on the ground "painting" the tanks and other targets for the aircraft sorties.
Ah, Don runs a betting parlor, if there were a PayPal account here....
  

charlesoakwood

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Re: No Fly Zone Enforcers: War Criminals?
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2011, 08:00:39 PM »
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201142172443133798.html

US and Egyptian special forces have reportedly been offering covert armed training to rebel fighters in the battle for Libya, Al Jazeera has been told.

An unnamed rebel source related how he had undergone training in military techniques at a "secret facility" in eastern Libya.

He told our correspondent Laurence Lee, reporting from the rebel-stronghold of Benghazi, that he was sent to fire Katyusha rockets but was given a simple, unguided version of the rocket instead.
 

"He told us that on Thursday night a new shipment of Katyusha rockets had been sent into eastern Libya from Egypt. He didn't say they were sourced from Egypt, but that was their route through," our correspondent said.

"He said these were state-of-the-art, heat-seeking rockets and that they needed to be trained on how to use them, which was one of the things the American and Egyptian special forces were there to do."

The intriguing development has raised several uncomfortable questions,...