Author Topic: Veterans Receive Letters From VA Prohibiting Ownership or Purchase of Firearms  (Read 1525 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
Via Gateway Pundit comes a report from attorney Michael Connelly:

Quote
At the USJF we intend to find the truth by filing a Freedom of Information Act request to the Department of Veterans Affairs to force them to disclose the criteria they are using to place veterans on the background check list that keeps them from exercising their Second Amendment rights.

It's not just their 2A rights that are in question; the VA is threatening to have them ruled incompetent to handle their own affairs as well.

I hope Connelly gets to the bottom of this and finds out how many Veterans have received such letters and why.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
A commenter at Twitchy clarifies:

" Gothguy • 5 hours ago

Folks,

Having dealt with this extensively when I was a Veterans Advocate, a little clarification is needed. This is not something new, and the VA is not in the gun grabbing business.

What he (the author) has written is misleading on a couple of points (actually, more than a couple). Not just 'someone in the VA' can declare a veteran incompetent, the veteran must be diagnosed by a doctor as incompetent during an examination. Once that has happened, the VA does a proposed decision, notifying the veteran of the proposed incompetency, and details with specifics the reason(s) why the proposal is being done.  They don't just get a letter, and it's a done deal.

The veteran is given 60 days to submit medical evidence as to why the proposal should be overturned. It is a fact that during that 60 day period, the veteran cannot appeal the decision, because the decision hasn't been finalized, it's only a proposal or pending decision. Even if the veteran cannot get a letter or statement or other evidence during that time period and the proposal goes into effect, he or she can still appeal that decision, and the VA advises him or her of the appeal process.

I would advise the veteran to get in touch with their doctor and get a statement from him or her stating that the veteran is not incompetent, submit it to the VA, and the proposal would be rescinded.

Further, the author cites the 5th Amendment, well, again, it's misleading the way he wrote this. The veteran is free to submit evidence, request a pre-determination hearing before being declared incompetent to handle his or her affairs, and trust me, I have participated in those hearing many times over 16 years, and have won virtually all of them prior to
the final determination. No 5th Amendment rights are violated.

Also, the author again cites that some nameless person would be appointed by the VA to handle the veterans' financial affairs. Not true. If the veteran is declared incompetent after all avenues have been exhausted, in virtually all cases, a family member is appointed, and the veteran can even request that a friend be appointed. The VA will interview these people to make sure they understand and agree to be appointed the fiduciary. The only time an outside fiduciary is
appointed is if no family member or friend is willing to do it, and that person or agency the VA appoints have under gone extensive background checks, credit checks, etc., and have been approved by the VA.

The VA also has what is called the 'Guardianship Unit', which constantly monitors the fiduciaries to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to do.

Finally, the author attempts to make this appear widespread, and that is simply not the case. And, even if a veteran has been declared incompetent for years, he or she can always have that decision overturned...seen it...done it.

And trust me, there are some veterans that are so whacked out mentally, that even I wouldn't want them to have access to a firearm.

As a disabled veteran, Patriot, and as an American, I am a huge advocate of the 2nd Amendment, but what the author wrote is simply scare mongering, and it does a disservice to veterans."
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10828
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Believe me, when it comes to this government and its bureaucratic tentacles, I have zero trust.

But linked at the Michael Connely site is a copy of the document in question. It appears to me to be a form generated by the VA based on a suggestion of possible incompetence in a particular instance or instances. The veteran's mental or phyisical ability to handle their own medical and financial affairs is in question, and this letter seems to be a follow-up on that determination, laying out a procedure for moving forward in establishing the truth or falsehood of that claim. Based on the context, it seems like the reporting went from a local VA to the bureaucracy, and this letter is the response.

I could be WAY off.

If this was a blanket letter going out to all veterans, this would of course be outrageous. But if veterans in the system are unable to cope with life to the point where their overall competence is in question, then it seems to me that the VA enumerating the procedure and consequences of a final determination would be in order. It seems further that among the consequences of being declared incompetent would be a possible loss of 2A rights depending on the nature of the incompetency.

Now, ask me if I'm comfortable with an arm of the federal government determining who is and is not competent, and I'll have a whole lot to say about that. I'm only saying that this particular letter doesn't seem proof positive that the federal government is trying to rob veterans of their 2A rights.

ETA: ...and according to Pan's #2 post, my analysis is probably the right one.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10828
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
On a side note, Jim Hoft gets sucked into this kind of thing far too often for me these days. I like GWP, but Hoft is low on the fact-checking scale, and high on the eager-to-pass-along-hyperbole scale.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Pandora

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 19529
  • I iz also makin a list. U on it pal.
On a side note, Jim Hoft gets sucked into this kind of thing far too often for me these days. I like GWP, but Hoft is low on the fact-checking scale, and high on the eager-to-pass-along-hyperbole scale.

Concur.  That's why I double-checked at other sources.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

charlesoakwood

  • Guest

Somewhere in between InfoWars and WND.

Offline IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10828
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers

Somewhere in between InfoWars and WND.

Neither of which (IMHO) should be dismissed in their entirety. They just need to be consumed with eyes open to how they report things.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

  • Guest

It irritates and disappoints, it's sensationalism and
well, we are living in sensational times that require
no extra stimulation. Hyperbole and distortion are the left's arena let it stay there. 

Offline IronDioPriest

  • Administrator
  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 10828
  • I refuse to accept my civil servants as my rulers
Found this linked at the sidebar at AoSHQ.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Online Libertas

  • Conservative Superhero
  • *****
  • Posts: 63890
  • Alea iacta est! Libertatem aut mori!
Fate determined by a faceless paper-pushing bureaucrat. . .that applies to a lot of situations, most of which never get reported.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.