Author Topic: The Cyprus Clusterobama  (Read 7818 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2013, 07:45:46 AM »
This is good.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-27/furious-cyprus-begins-investigating-who-breached-capital-controls

The hand-wringing will continue until the capital control evaders have been identified!

 ::hysterical::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2013, 10:12:26 AM »

Comrade, I am afraid we are not safe here in Russia.  Bwaa ha ha ha.

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2013, 10:58:06 AM »
Now Cyprus moves straight to armed robbery.

Cyprus will impose limits on money transfers and dispatch extra security guards to prepare for Thursday’s reopening of the banks, which have been shut for almost two weeks to avoid a run during the country’s financial drama.

A banking official said Wednesday that new controls will include restrictions on large-scale transfers from the country’s two largest and most troubled lenders, Bank of Cyprus and Laiki. Both are being restructured and big depositors face losses of as much as 40 percent. …

Meanwhile, private security firm G4S will install 180 of its staff at bank branches across the island to keep a lid on possible trouble, said John Argyrou, managing director of the firm’s Cypriot arm.

“Our presence there will be for the comfort of both bank staff and clients, but police will also be present,” he said.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Glock32

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2013, 11:11:59 AM »
About that whole breaching of capital controls, just what does tiny little Cyprus think it's going to do when the trail leads to a bunch of "former" KGB operatives? What are they going to do, threaten Russia with an embargo of olive oil?

I'm thinking their answer will be something along the lines of
???? ??????



« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 11:16:07 AM by Glock32 »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2013, 11:30:04 AM »
They'll get a prompt "Yeb vos!" followed by a rude gesture and a guttural laugh.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

charlesoakwood

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2013, 05:32:42 PM »

Quote
...despite the ongoing liquidity blockade, capital controls and (somewhat) closed Cyprus banks, one particular group of people... [Russia?] ...found ways to bypass the ringfence and pull their money out quickly and quietly.
...
As Spiegel reports, the Cypriot Parliament, which may or may not last too long once the banks reopen...has begun investigating the capital flight ...


Offline John Florida

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2013, 06:53:07 PM »
  Cyprus is not that far from other countries,The money will move out as fast as people can get their hands on it.
 There are enough boats and shoreline to make it impossible to stop anything from leaving. They want to tax deposits??What deposits are they going to get with that policy?

   Those people know what an underground economy is and how it works all too well.Look for hangings in the near future.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2013, 07:44:40 PM »
I'm sure wires around the globe are glowing red hot from all the fast and furious transfers taking place.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2013, 11:08:36 PM »
Ann Barnhardt's take

Quote
'THIS (CYPRUS) OPENS UP ENORMOUS POSSIBILITIES...'
POSTED BY ANN BARNHARDT - MARCH 18, AD 2013 10:47 AM MST
'... for the Administration.'
Thus spoken on CNBC this day.

A couple of points. First, there STILL is confusion about these confiscations, dating back to the MF Global theft. People are still trying to say that the money that was/is confiscated, both from the MF Global customers and the Cypriot bank accounts is somehow "investment" capital.

No, no, no, no, no.

If you deposit money in a custodial account, you are NOT investing in the brokerage firm or in the bank. The MF Global customers were not investors in MF Global or sharing in any way in MF Global's proprietary trading profits. The people of Cyprus are not investors in their banks. The people of Cyprus who deposited money in the bank were not signing on to a share in an uber-leveraged scheme involving repos and credit default swaps on Greek sovereign paper.

THEY WERE PEOPLE WHO SIMPLY DEPOSITED THEIR MONEY, THEIR PROPERTY IN CURRENCY FORM, THE FUNGIBLE PROXY FOR THEIR LABOR AND CREATIVE CAPACITY WHICH THEY HAD ACCUMULATED, INTO A SACROSANCT, INSURED, CUSTODIAL DEMAND DEPOSIT AND/OR TIME DEPOSIT ACCOUNT.

The MF Global accounts were the same - they were fully-backed demand deposit accounts that were used to margin the account holder's futures and options positions. They were the sole, private property of the account holder and MF Global had ZERO ownership interest in that customer money.

Do you know why people used to keep fairly large balances in brokerage accounts like MF Global? Because before MF Global, brokerage accounts were guaranteed 100% by the exchange. No maximums. If a firm failed, the purpose and role of the exchange was to backstop and guarantee the firm with zero liquidity interruption. And, remembering that on the day MF Global imploded and the customer funds were swept and wired to JP Morgan, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange had an emergency slush fund of over EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS ready to go, the fact that the customers were not made INSTANTLY whole by the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is totally nefarious and criminal regardless of the circumstances.

Now the total integral failure of the brokerage paradigm has occurred in the retail banking paradigm. All deposits in the EU *were* insured up to 100,000 Euro, just like the farcical FDIC insurance. Now everyone knows that it is all total cow poop, just like the guarantees on brokerage accounts has been proved multiple times to be total cow poop.

Oh, and the oligarchs are trying to call this a "tax". Um, no. Taxes are passed by legislatures. This is Christine Legarde and some German bureaucrats arbitrarily, forcibly confiscating private bank accounts. Any "law" passed ex post facto in Cyprus will merely be a show trying to make it appear that this is not the arbitrary tyranny that it is.

Finally, I don't care how much Russian money laundering is going on in Cyprus, and yes, I know it is huge. This is totally beside the point. Just because criminal money laundering is happening through Cypriot banks doesn't mean that anyone has the right to confiscate the money of innocent Cypriots. The whole Russian money laundering excuse is a total red herring. Look, the nation with the largest absolute quantity of money laundering is the United States of America. Think HSBC. Think Wachovia. Think Washington Mutual. Think Bank of America. Does that mean that every bank account in the entire country can be levied - and not just in the banks with the money laundering but EVERY ACCOUNT IN EVERY BANK IN THE NATION? Of course not.

Bottom line: I shut down my brokerage firm precisely because I knew that there was no longer any rule of law and that customer money was totally indefensible. Now the same thing has happened in the retail banking sector and Obama regime cronies are openly declaring on national television that across-the-board private property confiscations are being regarded as "opening up enormous possibilities."

DO NOT sit around and wait for your money, be it in retirement accounts, stock accounts, money market accounts or even in simple bank accounts or CDs, to be stolen. There is probably going to be a small reaction lag as the low-information populaces of the Southern European countries (Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal) are slow on the uptake of what has happened, but it won't last forever. Once Guido in Naples gets his head around this, the Eurozone will be O.V.E.R. And the the US banks carrying HUNDREDS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in leveraged European sovereign debt over-the-counter derivatives will implode into a black hole-esque singularity at the speed that information can cross the Atlantic Ocean, which AIN'T VERY DARN LONG, kids.

**If you haven't seen it already, I have an 8-part, 2.5 hour YouTube presentation recorded just recently in November 2012, explaining exactly these topics on YouTube. Click on the link that says "YouTube" on the left to go to my YouTube Channel homepage. Part 1 of the econ presentation should be at the top of the list.

Emphasis mine. While I admit this is possible, I don't think it likely. It assumes a rational reaction from the European herd of sheep, and the same reaction in our herd. If Ann's reasoning were correct, the whole thing would have collapsed in 2008, because everyone would have seen through the farce of just printing up more money to cover AIG. 

 When the European derivatives implode, I think the Fed will instead choose to print to cover any US exposure to it, vs trying to engage in direct levy's on Bank accounts.  Since the banks don't actually spend the money the fed loans them to stay solvent,  the print to cover mechanism is non-inflationary. The 1s and 0s in the bank accounts here just stay the same, the banks balance sheets will always magically come out in the black. As long as the banks don't lend that money and as long as the economy is contracting and money velocity stays low,  this won't have much of an impact. .   Our printing press can prevent us from getting sucked into Europe's black hole, and thus prevent the dominoes from spreading here. It preserves the status quo and just ups the numbers on the Feds own balance sheets - you know, the ones we aren't allowed to see. Yes, technically the banks owe that money back to the Fed, but  the fed can talk as long as they want getting it back - because interest rates are basically negative. Why? Inflation..

The currency destroyer here is the Deficit spending.  The government is printing money AND spending it.  Entitlements continue to grow.  We will run 1-2 Trillion in deficits for each year from now on, and perhaps more as Obamacare comes into full effect. Our collapse occurs when Foreign powers  dump the dollar in reaction to the clearly unsustainable path we are on, and all of those dollars overseas come home to America - looking for something, anything to buy before the dollar is worthless. This will drive prices up - and the govt will most likely respond by upping the entitlement payouts - thus provding us with the Wage/price spiral needed for hyperinflation. The politicians aren't going to let their little herd of  sheep starve - not while they can steal and print more.

Congress  may eventually make a play for 401k and IRA money or even try the direct bank account levy, but it won't be because they "need" the money, but simply, because they want control. Just like Obamacare isn't about healthcare at all, but about control of who will get what treatment. Don't be too outspoken our your daughter won't get the treatment she needs for that Pneumonia. Don't make waves or the EBT we forced you onto will be cut off.  They want us all to be beggars.

charlesoakwood

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2013, 11:22:03 AM »

They can confiscate your paper here by inflation/devaluing the dollar easier than by a direct pull.[blockquote]  nd all of those dollars overseas come home to America - looking for something, anything to buy before the dollar is worthless. This will drive prices up - and the govt will most likely respond by upping the entitlement payouts - thus provding us with the Wage/price spiral needed for hyperinflation.[/blockquote]
  Coupled with the possible reality that  [blockquote]Don't make waves or [we will make life more difficult and unpleasant for you].[/blockquote]
This brings one back to the question of what to do with that fiat stuff.
Instead of farmland I think land at the farthest practical commuting
distance from Big City.  It should become more attractive as the cities become less attractive and retain it's value as long as we have an economy.




Offline AlanS

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2013, 11:49:36 AM »
Instead of farmland I think land at the farthest practical commuting
distance from Big City.  It should become more attractive as the cities become less attractive and retain it's value as long as we have an economy.

I still like farmland. You can always have a truck farm for income.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2013, 12:26:46 PM »

If one didn't sell it to city slickers and had a tractor he would call it farmland.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2013, 03:40:43 PM »
I still like farmland. You can always have a truck farm for income.

1) If people start starving I would expect any "official" farm of any size to be raided, confiscated or otherwise forced to serve the "common good"
2) If Fuel prices become too high, you can't get your truck to market, or, if you do, the people there can't afford it - this happened during the great depression - people were hungry in the cities with plenty of food on the farms and no way to get it there cost effectively.
 

Offline AlanS

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2013, 06:59:03 PM »
1) If people start starving I would expect any "official" farm of any size to be raided, confiscated or otherwise forced to serve the "common good"

That scares me as much or more than them seizing my money. BASTARDS!!!
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2013, 07:06:14 PM »

It appears, given news from Italy today, that European depositors are increasingly coming to the realization that deposits in their local bank are not 'safe' places to put their spare cash, but are in fact... ::jawstheme::



Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #75 on: March 30, 2013, 09:24:15 PM »
1) If people start starving I would expect any "official" farm of any size to be raided, confiscated or otherwise forced to serve the "common good"

That scares me as much or more than them seizing my money. BASTARDS!!!

Sadly, that is the history. That is what these people do. They see people starving and we have to "do something" - obviously the capitalistic freedom based model isn't working, we must take over the farms and operate them to ensure everyone gets food. The romans tried to pass laws keeping foramers on thier land and farming at a loss.  The Russians went after the Kulaks.

Also see my other post about the incredibly intrusive farm survey  the Fed wants farmers to answer.  You don't want the govt to think of you as a farm - even AG zoning may be used to make that determination (but you probably need that) .I suspect they will go after low lying fruit first- the best farmland ( Iowa)  and larger acreages, giving you time if you own less than prime farmland and a small establishment. Something large enough to provide for you and yours, but not so large that it can provide for anyone else.



 

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Cyprus Clusterobama
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2013, 08:47:22 PM »
I think the Barnhardtian Scenario could happen, but it requires a full systemic global collapse of faith in the banking system, right now the patch and smile method is still in play and a form of financial mutually assured destruction is all that is holding it together, the currency wars are where the PTBs are playing off each other for advantage and that little game might get out of hand once a big enough player experiences a real crisis, I don't think there is a corner of the world exempt from the coming chaos.  Things will get local real quick for everybody.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.