Author Topic: The Fascists around you  (Read 1090 times)

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Offline Weisshaupt

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The Fascists around you
« on: May 21, 2013, 06:34:56 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCIXnn9KVeY&list=SPMNj_r5bccUweCAkSn6PdgL1PBjS9a0Av

( I recommend listening and not watching.. the images are simply disturbing and do not add to the presentation)

 Yes its long. Work through it.  I will post summaries if I get a chance

PART 1: Coverage of various Psychological experiments (Stanford Prison, electric shocks administered to another, etc)

A lot of it you may have heard of before.  One experiment where they ask people to rate the morality of a statement, then ask them to read back a statement that is the opposite which they are told was thier answer. Most people don't detect the change, and will even argue for the truth of the Morality of the statement even though they answered the opposite.

Another study asked people why they would not steal. About 10% answered "because it is wrong", "a violation of rights" or any other sort of abstract  reasoning. Most answer because "I'll get into trouble " or a variation like "It's illegal"  - so that means we have about a 10% population of sheepdogs.  Its also why Liberals are scoffing at the current scandals - because they don't think any laws were broken. The morality is determined by what laws are broken, not by empathy or feeling  for the plight of others.

Part II: Sociopaths

Sociopaths do NOT feel for others. They learn to manipulate - and to them - we are livestock. They often excel at the acting required to reach high position of power both in corporate and political life, and once there, encourage secondary sociopaths  to do the same.  Culture can be used to  camouflage for Sociopathic  behavior (  Political correctness, moral relativism  - in extreme cases, like Hitler,  the whole culture evolves to become sociopathic) -- so it spreads like a disease.  The Original or primary sociopath  occurs genetically , but can use the Human Cultural mechanism to spread and or hide the behavior.  I found it an interesting hypothesis that the the concept of morality, of conscience, or a soul that will inspire guilt is an invention of a psychopath-- to make others think there are no psychopaths  (I don't endorse the idea- its smacks too much of Nietzsche and his super man, where morality is for lesser men) or that the psychopath hasn't done anything wrong - because he shows no guilt.  The Psychopath creates the systems of grades,  titles, pedigrees and degrees to distract from actions, deeds or wisdom as measure of merit.  Sociopaths don't empathize with others, and therefore see every interaction on WIN/LOSE scenarios, but will pretend its win/win.  And they manipulate language to do so, because reality isn't manipulable.  A bit of the usual Libertarian hatred of organized religion -- but again as part of the "holier than thou" priest assuming the authority of God( titles and pedigrees) Idea that  "Honor your  Mother and Father" is a sociopathic statement - Honor is earned, not given. Your parents are honorable or they are not. (Mine aren't)  You must obey and listen to "teacher"  is another example.   Respect the category, because and an individual I am not respectable.

Part III

Sociopaths might be required to defend the tribe- and therefor may be part of a survival trait is a small number are present - as generals etc.  Its a matter of Genes + the environment, with environment probably being dominant. Makes the argument that "you must participate in Social Security"  and "You must pay to prosecute the Iraq war"  as equivalent ( I disagree. One is authorized (by consent) in the Constitution. The other is not.  Your right to not fund the military because you disagree with the mission was waived when the Constitution was ratified)  Says that most people do not understand their support of the state is support of violence against others. (but goes so far as to suggest all taxes are violence against individuals)   Another interesting point was empathy is to correctly  experience and understand another person's emotions. Sympathy is to accurately understand another emotions and thinking you would feel the same way in the same situation.  All Laws are based on the threat of murder. If you resist, you will be killed. Milgrim experiment is exactly that.
(and Liberals are willing to see you murdered to make you buy insurance)

He then encourages people to confront the Statist with the fact that they advocate using the government to hurt you.. and admits it won't work. They will be back at Statism within a day, and probably blame you for beg mean etc.

Part IV

You cannot win with a Sociopath, and its incurable. Like a missing limb, is a conscience is missing, the conscience will never grow back.  Its largely then a discussion of Sociopaths in the family and how to deal with them/exclude yourself from them ( Which is what I had to do with my "family" - after listening to this, I think my sister is full on, clinical definition sociopath. )

Part V.. Argument that sociopath behavior isn't solely genetic - and that environment probably plays a larger part

Part VI

Theory is that propaganda is constant - dissemination with by the govt ( secular - big D Democracy and corrupt elections  ) or by organized churches (divine right of kings) to provide legitimacy
Propaganda is the sum of the ethical myths to control people ( the automatic reverence for Degrees, experts, Hone thy mother & father, etc)  - to judge people by group membership rather than by individual merit.
If a program does not achieve its stated goal  but still continues, then its meeting an unstated goal. (war on drugs - allows people to profit from drug sales )( War on poverty. - creates dependent class to vote to increase State ) ( Public education - indoctrination and class of teachers beholden to the system and therefor  cannot speak against it )

The violence of the state cannot survive without the propaganda portraying the violence as legitimate or necessary. Ethics  are  largely propaganda because it always tells you to obey the state (The State is you mother and father etc) No aggression against each other-- because  the herd will be less productive.  Rebellions become "virtue" when another group of sociopaths is attempting to grab power.  Ethics are lies told to justify and protect the psychopath ( I disagree)  Empathy sold as  the ultimate virtue is sold by a psychopath.  You empathize with those who show empathy, and you show no concern for those who don't

You don't get quality out of involuntary relationships. 




« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 04:47:50 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: The Fascists around you
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2013, 06:54:03 PM »
I listened to about 8 minutes. I followed along, waiting for the point. When he started talking about how a majority of people exposed to the slightest suggestion will just reverse and vociferously defend a viewpoint for which they disagreed just moments before, he lost me completely. I know of no instance in my entire life for which that is true for me or anyone else I know.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: The Fascists around you
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2013, 07:19:39 PM »
I listened to about 8 minutes. I followed along, waiting for the point. When he started talking about how a majority of people exposed to the slightest suggestion will just reverse and vociferously defend a viewpoint for which they disagreed just moments before, he lost me completely. I know of no instance in my entire life for which that is true for me or anyone else I know.

The experiment was based on a trick.... I think its the action of telling them that they said it some where in a long battery of questions.  Pride kicks in and they feel they have to defend it to the interviewer.   I think its related to the   tendency of  people to go along with members of a group. If a person perceives they are in a minority  they will voice the majority opinion, even if they suspect its wrong.  But you see it every day.. Liberals defending Obama's wiretapping and so forth when during the Bush years it was the worst thing ever.  Its an emotional not a reasoned reaction.   You , and most of us here are reason based,  that is what makes us who we are and attracted to this forum, and it influences us in our choice of friends etc.  Look outside that circle  and you will see that behavior exists.  We can argue about the actual percentages, but that is How propaganda  can be effective.  The "go along to get along" crowd are happy to accept the current truth,  because thinking for themselves is just likely to cause them trouble.  They have no innate respect for truth.  Or as Arthur Dent put it - "They would far rather be happy than right"