Author Topic: ACLU vs Christianity  (Read 6622 times)

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Online Pandora

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ACLU vs Christianity
« on: April 03, 2011, 04:09:54 PM »
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The ACLU remains one of America's most powerful secular-socialist political pressure groups. It relentlessly tramples underfoot the First Amendment, which guarantees sweeping and absolute liberty for all Americans -- including government employees -- to freely exercise their faith both publicly and privately without fear of reprisal: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Examples of its constitutional abuses are manifold, but one of the most recent involves an ACLU assault against a group of Christians in Santa Rosa County, FL. Liberty Counsel represents those Christians.

An ACLU-crafted Consent Decree has been used as a weapon to threaten school district employees with fines and jail time for merely praying over a meal, and for exercising -- even while away from school -- their sincerely held Christian faith. You read that right. The ACLU is literally seeking to criminalize Christianity.

In August of 2009, Liberty Counsel successfully defended staff member Michelle Winkler from contempt charges brought by the ACLU after her husband, who is not even employed by the district, offered a meal prayer at a privately sponsored event in a neighboring county.

Liberty Counsel also successfully defended Pace High School Principal Frank Lay and Athletic Director Robert Freeman against criminal contempt charges, after the ACLU sought to have the men thrown in jail for blessing a lunch meal served to about 20 adult booster club members.

Under the Consent Decree teachers are considered to be acting in their "official capacity" anytime a student is present, even at private functions off campus.

Liberty Counsel describes this unconstitutional decree:

    Teachers cannot pray, bow their heads, or fold their hands to show agreement with anyone who does pray. Teachers and staff cannot 'Reply' to an email sent by a parent if the parent's email refers to God or Scripture. Teachers either have to delete such references from the original email or reply by initiating a new email. Teachers and staff are also required to stop students from praying in their own private club meetings.


During witness testimony, Mrs. Winkler sobbed as she described how she and a coworker, who had recently lost a child, literally had to hide in a closet to pray.

Although the case continues, on Monday the ACLU suffered a tremendous setback while freedom took a significant step forward. Federal District Court Judge M. Casey Rodgers granted in part a Preliminary Injunction in favor of Liberty Counsel's twenty-four Christian clients.

Link

Judge Rodgers concluded that even though "a preliminary injunction is an extraordinary and drastic remedy," one aspect of the Consent Decree -- its attempt to prohibit school employees from fully participating in private religious events -- is so flawed that it must be immediately halted.

The Court thus enjoined the School Board "from enforcing any school policy that restrains in any way an employee's participation in, or speech or conduct during, a private religious service, including baccalaureate" pending a trial on the merits. 
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

charlesoakwood

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2011, 04:32:32 PM »

Americans are so cowed they must seek injunction from a court in order they may do what was expected by our founders. More distortion.


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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2011, 04:50:35 PM »
It is my understanding of this case, and I may be wrong, that it was the ACLU that filed suit against these people and the school district.  The Liberty Counsel defended here as such suits cannot go unchallenged - criminal and contempt charges??!
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Online IronDioPriest

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 05:02:37 PM »
It is my understanding of this case, and I may be wrong, that it was the ACLU that filed suit against these people and the school district.  The Liberty Counsel defended here as such suits cannot go unchallenged - criminal and contempt charges??!

Does the ACLU file such lawsuits on its own behalf, or does it require a plaintiff whom they then represent in the lawsuit? It's probably academic anyway, since the ACLU could solicit plaintiffs in the event that there were none.

Liberty Council does good work and is worthy of support, as is the American Center for Law & Justice (ACLJ). I've never donated to LC, but I have to ACLJ. So many causes need money.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2011, 05:07:15 PM »
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Under the Consent Decree teachers are considered to be acting in their "official capacity" anytime a student is present, even at private functions off campus.

I found this part particularly mind-blowing.  Under this decree, if a teacher was in a restaurant with family and another family with "a student" was there, saying grace before dinner would not be allowed?  

These people need to be hung.  Really.  Their audacity has merely been emboldened and now knows no limits.  The Rough Beast no longer slouches, it stalks in a sprint.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

charlesoakwood

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2011, 06:16:19 PM »
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Under the Consent Decree teachers are considered to be acting in their "official capacity" anytime a student is present, even at private functions off campus.

I found this part particularly mind-blowing.  Under this decree, if a teacher was in a restaurant with family and another family with "a student" was there, saying grace before dinner would not be allowed?  

These people need to be hung.  Really.  Their audacity has merely been emboldened and now knows no limits.  The Rough Beast no longer slouches, it stalks in a sprint.


Out west its always been that way. 
Like a cop, a teacher is a representative of the community, always.


Offline Glock32

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2011, 06:30:33 PM »
My thoughts exactly. These bastards need to be swinging from the damn lamp posts. They're never going to stop, ever. We're already on the verge of "nice guy"-ing our way right out of existence.
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2011, 07:02:23 PM »
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Under the Consent Decree teachers are considered to be acting in their "official capacity" anytime a student is present, even at private functions off campus.

I found this part particularly mind-blowing.  Under this decree, if a teacher was in a restaurant with family and another family with "a student" was there, saying grace before dinner would not be allowed?  

These people need to be hung.  Really.  Their audacity has merely been emboldened and now knows no limits.  The Rough Beast no longer slouches, it stalks in a sprint.


Out west its always been that way. 
Like a cop, a teacher is a representative of the community, always.



O rly.  And what "community" would a teacher be representing having to act under this decree?
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Glock32

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2011, 07:24:29 PM »
I'm sorry but when "the law" says individuals cannot even pray over their own meal then "the law" and everyone responsible for promulgating and enforcing it has earned a spot on Kharma's (just to be inclusive and worldly) sh*t list.

By the way, compare and contrast this with other public institutions who set aside special prayer rooms for Muslims. There's your daily dose of balance.
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

- Yours Truly

charlesoakwood

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2011, 08:39:23 PM »
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Under the Consent Decree teachers are considered to be acting in their "official capacity" anytime a student is present, even at private functions off campus.

I found this part particularly mind-blowing.  Under this decree, if a teacher was in a restaurant with family and another family with "a student" was there, saying grace before dinner would not be allowed?  

These people need to be hung.  Really.  Their audacity has merely been emboldened and now knows no limits.  The Rough Beast no longer slouches, it stalks in a sprint.


Out west its always been that way. 
Like a cop, a teacher is a representative of the community, always.



O rly.  And what "community" would a teacher be representing having to act under this decree?

Yes, it is known as a position of trust and with it is an obligation of responsible behavior. 





Online IronDioPriest

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2011, 08:44:26 PM »
Quote
Under the Consent Decree teachers are considered to be acting in their "official capacity" anytime a student is present, even at private functions off campus.

I found this part particularly mind-blowing.  Under this decree, if a teacher was in a restaurant with family and another family with "a student" was there, saying grace before dinner would not be allowed?  

These people need to be hung.  Really.  Their audacity has merely been emboldened and now knows no limits.  The Rough Beast no longer slouches, it stalks in a sprint.


Out west its always been that way.  
Like a cop, a teacher is a representative of the community, always.



O rly.  And what "community" would a teacher be representing having to act under this decree?

Yes, it is known as a position of trust and with it is an obligation of responsible behavior.  


...But you're not saying that a teacher praying in pubic is violating that "official capacity" trust, are you? (I don't think I even need to ask, but the string of comments so far could use clarification)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 08:46:34 PM by IronDioPriest »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2011, 09:08:03 PM »

Absolutly not.  Or, as I said, not in my community.  

I suppose if it was a community of apostates then the teacher should be an exemplar of apostasy.\

A teacher is entrusted by the community to conduct himself in an exemplary manner.  If a teacher does not conduct himself in an exemplary manner he has failed his trust to the community and the respect of his profession.  He should be removed from the classroom and fired.  His record should follow him wherever he seeks employment.


Online IronDioPriest

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2011, 09:15:58 PM »
I agree, teachers out an about in public have a certain responsibility to maintain their ethical conduct in the presence of their students. When that presence is incidental, that responsibility becomes somewhat murky and subjective, but I think it's a generality that holds water.

So really what the ACLU is doing here (no surprise) is using the "official capacity" doctrine of the "consent decree" as a completely disingenuous way to attack Christianity and freedom of religious expression under the 1st Amendment.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

charlesoakwood

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2011, 09:36:31 PM »

Disingenuous is an understatement.

The fact that the ACLU suit was not thrown out of court, that there are not enough people in that community to consider this thing not only frivolous but bizarre is example of the hell we are in today.

These maggots are another group of jihadies that take our laws and manners and use them against us.   


Offline Janny

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2011, 10:16:09 PM »
This is outrageous. How can the ACLU get away with this? I don't understand it. I really don't.

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2011, 10:19:26 PM »
This is outrageous. How can the ACLU get away with this? I don't understand it. I really don't.

Well, the good guys won this time. But that does nothing to stop the ACLU from attacking wherever, whenever, and however they can. We just have to keep beating them back, and staking claim on every inch we retake, just as relentlessly.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Glock32

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2011, 11:40:16 PM »
The Left really has become a lot more brazen and audacious in revealing its intent, just since Dumbo took office. Honestly this doesn't even feel like the same country at times, the Unholy Trinity (Obama/Pelosi/Reid) have had that much of an effect.
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

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Offline Janny

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2011, 11:50:33 PM »
This is outrageous. How can the ACLU get away with this? I don't understand it. I really don't.

Well, the good guys won this time. But that does nothing to stop the ACLU from attacking wherever, whenever, and however they can. We just have to keep beating them back, and staking claim on every inch we retake, just as relentlessly.

Yes, but these type of OUTRAGEOUS lawsuits shouldn't even have to be defended. That is what angers me. There has got to be a way to stop these kinds of lawsuits. I think "loser pays" would be a start.

God bless Liberty Counsel.

Offline Janny

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2011, 11:58:16 PM »
The Left really has become a lot more brazen and audacious in revealing its intent, just since Dumbo took office. Honestly this doesn't even feel like the same country at times, the Unholy Trinity (Obama/Pelosi/Reid) have had that much of an effect.

I think the George W. Bush years really emboldened them. They got away with so much. That they did not succeed in getting Kerry elected in '04 still seems like a miracle. They used to make some pretense at objectivity and some effort to mask or hide their biases, but not anymore. They got Obeyme elected, so of course they will do whatever they can, including make sh*t up, to prop his incompetent, puppet ass up.

Online Pandora

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Re: ACLU vs Christianity
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2011, 08:55:16 AM »
This is outrageous. How can the ACLU get away with this? I don't understand it. I really don't.

Well, the good guys won this time. But that does nothing to stop the ACLU from attacking wherever, whenever, and however they can. We just have to keep beating them back, and staking claim on every inch we retake, just as relentlessly.

Yes, but these type of OUTRAGEOUS lawsuits shouldn't even have to be defended. That is what angers me. There has got to be a way to stop these kinds of lawsuits. I think "loser pays" would be a start.

God bless Liberty Counsel.

Thank you for reminding me ....

The ACLU is already the beneficiary of loser-pays legislation ....

Quote
In some cases, the law permits plaintiffs who successfully sue government agencies to collect money damages or other monetary relief. In particular, the Civil Rights Attorney's Fees Award Act of 1976 leaves the government liable in some civil rights cases. Fee awards under this civil rights statute are considered "equitable relief" rather than damages, and government entities are not immune from equitable relief.[34] Under laws such as this, the ACLU and its state affiliates sometimes share in monetary judgments against government agencies.[35]

.... which is why so many school boards and districts and small towns simply concede at the threat of an ACLU-launched lawsuit.  It's difficult enough to find the money with which to defend in court, another to pay court costs, attorney fees and damages to the ACLU if they lose.

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"