Author Topic: North Carolina: contact your senator to support eliminating "permit to purchase"  (Read 1098 times)

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Offline Glock32

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In North Carolina, it is still required to obtain a "permit to purchase" from your county sheriff in order to buy a handgun.  It does not apply to rifles or shotguns.  Besides the obvious philosophical and constitutional objections to this, it is technically unnecessary because the NICS check done at the point of sale accomplishes the same thing anyway.

I think what is most obnoxious is that the "Sheriffs Association" is opposing this portion of the bill.  I detest rent seeking and self-aggrandizing behavior like this.  There is no legitimate reason to maintain this anachronistic infringement on law abiding citizens, and the Sheriffs Association only wants to keep it because of the revenue generated from the fees, and so they can continue to exercise capricious whims over citizens of their counties. The real origin of this system was in the Jim Crow era when they wanted to give local sheriffs discretion over who could and could not legally purchase a handgun.


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As recently reported, your NRA is aggressively working to pass a comprehensive right-to-carry reform bill, House Bill 937. H 937 contains numerous pro-gun provisions, including a section to repeal the antiquated permit-to-purchase requirement for anyone who wishes to purchase a handgun in North Carolina. However, the North Carolina Sheriffs' Association is apparently circulating a letter to legislators that urges them to remove this section from H 937.

H 937 is currently being considered by the state Senate, so it is critical you contact your state Senator IMMEDIATELY and urge her or him to oppose efforts of the state Sheriffs' Association to retain the redundant permit-to-purchase system. Click here to contact your state Senator NOW.

The outdated permit-to-purchase system may have made some sense when it was enacted in the days before computers, but the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) has made it obsolete, unnecessary and potentially dangerous. A recent news article showed that some individuals who had been issued permits were later convicted of violent crimes that would prohibit them from purchasing any firearm, but their permit would still allow them to purchase a handgun without their record being discovered. NICS has no such flaws.

Please also call your county sheriff and urge her or him to oppose the North Carolina Sheriffs' Association by contacting state Senators and urging them to support the NRA and the rights of law-abiding gun owners. Help support the NRA's efforts to make North Carolina safer by relying on NICS for lawful handgun transfers and repealing the permit-to-purchase NOW.
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charlesoakwood

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What's the fuss? The good sheriff's just want to help you keep track, you know, in the event they are stolen or something.

Offline Libertas

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We have the same crap in Minnie...totally bogus, the CC permit is 5 years and allows PP, but having to get any kind of permission slip from any authority to exercise a guaranteed right stinks, period.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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The bill passed the NC senate, so it is now back to the House for a concurrence vote.


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Today, the North Carolina Senate passed a comprehensive right-to-carry reform, House Bill 937, by a 31-14 vote. This bill now returns to the North Carolina House of Representatives for a concurrence vote on the Senate version. Please contact your state Representative TODAY and respectfully urge him or her to vote to concur on H 937. Click here for help identifying your state Representative and his or her contact information.

As passed in the state House in May, H 937 sought to make a number of important pro-gun reforms including, but not limited to:

    Allowing Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) holders to lawfully carry their personal protection firearm into a restaurant that serves alcohol.
    Removing the prohibition on CHP holders from carrying into a place where tickets are sold for admission and would fix the problem of anti-gun localities overstepping their authority regarding restricting CHP holders from carrying firearms into locally controlled parks.
    Addressing some issues regarding firearms in a vehicle, as well as certain firearm issues on campus grounds.
    Bringing North Carolina in compliance with the standards set forth in the federal NICS Improvement Amendments Act (NIAA) of 2007—a critical mental health reform.

A Proposed Committee Substitute (PCS) to H 937, offered by state Senator Buck Newton (R-11), adds to H 937 a number of critical reforms, including:

    Repealing the obsolete Permit to Purchase requirement for the purchase of a handgun in North Carolina.
    Allowing CHP holders to transport their personal protection handguns in their motor vehicle while on all school property, as well as allow them to store those handguns in their locked vehicles while parked on school property.
    Ensuring the privacy of CHP holders by allowing access to the database of permittees only for law enforcement purposes.
    Removing the prohibition on CHP holders carrying their personal protection firearms during a parade or funeral.
    Removing the prohibition on using firearms with sound suppressing devices while otherwise lawfully hunting game.

Law-abiding gun owners and sportsmen in the Tar Heel State need these critical reforms. Therefore, also please contact Governor Pat McCrory (R) and urge him to support the state House concurring on H 937 and to sign H 937 into law when it reaches his desk.
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Offline Glock32

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The bill did pass unaltered in the Senate, so now the Sheriff's Association is focusing their efforts on the House.


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This week, the state Senate passed an omnibus Right-to-Carry reform bill, House Bill 937. However, the North Carolina Sheriffs' Association is aggressively working to remove the section from H 937 that repeals the antiquated permit to purchase a handgun requirement. It is critical that the pro-gun community works to counter this effort by taking the following steps:

First, please take a moment to contact your state Representative and urge her or him to support the House simply concurring with the Senate version of H 937. State Representatives should oppose all efforts to weaken this bill in any way.

Second, please call Governor Pat McCrory (R) and urge him to support the Senate version of H 937. Respectfully urge him to oppose any efforts to weaken the bill, especially efforts to remove the section regarding the permit to purchase repeal.

Governor: (919) 814-2000 and E-mail

Third, please call your county sheriff and urge her or him to support the Senate version of H 937. Urge your sheriff to contact Speaker Thom Tillis (R-98) and let him know that the views of the NC Sheriffs' Association do not reflect the views of all NC sheriffs. Ask your sheriff to contact Governor McCrory and deliver the same message.

Finally, ask your sheriff to contact the NC Sheriffs' Association and ask that the group remove its objection to repealing the permit to purchase requirement.

The permit to purchase system was enacted nearly 100 years ago, before the days of computers and criminal databases. It is an obsolete system that has been replaced in efficiency and accuracy with the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The permit system itself has a history of lacking statewide uniformity. Some sheriffs have even gone so far as to limit the number of permits they will issue, which the state law does not allow. And the law itself is considered by many to be unconstitutional, as it allows a sheriff to require an applicant prove through "affidavits, oral evidence, or otherwise" that the applicant is of "good moral character." What other constitutionally protected rights are subject to such vague standards as requiring an individual to prove he or she is of "good moral character" before exercising them? And what, exactly, is the standard for "good moral character"?

North Carolina's permit to purchase law is outdated, inefficient, and unconstitutionally vague, and it must be repealed!
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Offline Glock32

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Apparently the Sheriff's Association is working hard to make an ass of itself.


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North Carolina: Sheriffs’ Association Attempting to Derail Repeal of Permit to Purchase

This week, the state House of Representatives is scheduled to vote to concur on the state Senate’s improvements to an omnibus right-to-carry reform bill, House Bill 937. However, the North Carolina Sheriffs' Association is working to remove the section from H 937 that repeals the antiquated permit to purchase a handgun requirement. It is critical that the pro-gun community works to counter this effort.

The permit to purchase system was enacted nearly 100 years ago, before the days of computers and criminal databases. It is an obsolete system that has been replaced in efficiency and accuracy with the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The permit system itself has a history of lacking statewide uniformity. Some sheriffs have even gone so far as to limit the number of permits they will issue, which the state law does not allow.

Please contact Governor Pat McCrory (R) to urge him to lend his support to the lawful gun owners of North Carolina by supporting the Senate version of H 937, especially the repeal of the permit to purchase.

Governor: (919) 814-2000 and E-mail

Please also call AND e-mail Executive Council members of the North Carolina Sheriffs’ Association and respectfully ask that their association removes its opposition to repealing the permit to purchase. Support the NRA's efforts to make North Carolina safer by relying on NICS for lawful handgun transfers and repealing the permit-to-purchase NOW.

Members of the NCSA Executive Committee:     


Sheriff Brad Riley, Cabarrus County     
Phone: (704) 920-3000     
E-mail: dbriley@cabarruscounty.us

Sheriff Jerry G. Monette, Craven County     
Phone: (252) 636-6620     
E-mail: jmonette@cravencountync.gov

Sheriff Earl R. Butler, Cumberland County     
Phone: (910) 677-5410     
E-mail: sheriff@ccsonc.org
       
Sheriff James L. Knight, Edgecombe County     
Phone: (252) 641-7914     
E-mail: sheriff.knight@co.edgecombe.nc.us

Sheriff Steve Bizzell, Johnston County     
Phone: (919) 989-5010     
E-mail: sbizzell@jcso.org

Sheriff Samuel S. Page, Rockingham County     
Phone: (336) 634-3239     
E-mail: spage@co.rockingham.nc.us
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

- Yours Truly

charlesoakwood

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Power and control, that's what they are there for.
This will be the Colorado sheriffs when time comes
to pushing and shoving.

Good luck on getting them to see the light.

Offline Libertas

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I wonder if more eyes will be opened to the agenda of the Left and their enablers who think they are in an opposing party?

I'm not going to hold my breath...I've given up thinking well of most of my fellow citizens...

Being surprised would be nice.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Glock32

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Fortunately my Rep is one of the sponsors of the bill, so I don't think there's any reason to worry about his vote.  But man it just really irks me when groups like that pull out all the stops to protect the status quo just "because". What possible reason is there to keep this system in place? The only people who are going to go through the trouble of getting a permission slip from the sheriff are people who are law abiding anyway. And if something came up to prevent them from getting a purchase permit, it would have come up in the NICS check too.  In fact, you could argue that the purchase permit system is actually working against effective background screening because once issued they are good for 5 years, and when presented at a gun store they are taken in lieu of the NICS check. So theoretically you could become a felon in the 5 years after issue, and be able to buy a handgun with your permit because the NICS check is bypassed.

Just a bunch of self-serving, rent-seeking lunacy. It's clearly about the revenues they get from application fees. What do they do in issuing a purchase permit? They probably just run the same basic check that NICS does anyway, then add your $30 to their revenues.
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Offline ChrstnHsbndFthr

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The letter I sent:

Dear Sheriff,

Respectfully, I am not sure the North Carolina Sheriff's  Association understands that every handgun purchase requires an electronic check BEFORE purchase. The redundant pistol permitting process places an additional  burden on law abiding citizens. It increases expense and wastes time, of both the citizens and the law enforcement officers who certainly have more important things to do.

I am asking you to meet and withdraw your opposition to what is a wonderful bill that should become law. Remember, that we, the law-abiding citizens of the state, support YOU and your deputies. All we ask is that you support us too.

Thank you,
“My mission today is to go forth and tell people about why I follow Christ and also what the Bible teaches, and part of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together.

“However, I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. We are all created by the Almighty and like Him, I love all of humanity. We would all be better off if we loved God and loved each other.”
Phil Robertson an elder in the church of Christ

Offline Glock32

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Thanks for doing that CHF. One thing I've learned is that most people are so passive and apathetic, especially at state and local levels, that your one voice can actually carry a lot of weight. My rep wrote back to me and was asking for my opinion on some other details of the bill, so sometimes there really is such a thing as representative government.

He told me that some of the sheriffs he had spoken to were basically fine with the bill, but that they preferred keeping the purchase permits because, in their words, there might be individuals who have not been identified as mentally ill but that they should be. I told him why I did not care for that line of reasoning.
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

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Online Pandora

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Thanks for doing that CHF. One thing I've learned is that most people are so passive and apathetic, especially at state and local levels, that your one voice can actually carry a lot of weight. My rep wrote back to me and was asking for my opinion on some other details of the bill, so sometimes there really is such a thing as representative government.

He told me that some of the sheriffs he had spoken to were basically fine with the bill, but that they preferred keeping the purchase permits because, in their words, there might be individuals who have not been identified as mentally ill but that they should be. I told him why I did not care for that line of reasoning.

Damn right.  Get me talking about the government today and in less than two minutes I will evince an obvious need for "anger management", and, thanks, but no; I have all the anger I can manage right now.

The last and only time I called my county Sheriff about a gun issue, he flustered me by asking "who do you work for?"  Today, instead of fumbling for words, I'd tell him, "I work for me; who do YOU work for, Sheriff?".
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Glock32

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The thing that bugs me about the Sheriffs Association opposing this portion of the bill is that it carries a high probability of working. Republicans/conservatives have one big glaring fault in my book, and that is their excessive deference to "law enforcement". I know it comes from historical veneration of those institutions we associate with selfless service and sacrifice (i.e. the military, the police, teachers, etc) but does any of that really square with today's reality? I am not willing to grant an assumption of noble intent to anyone, the police included.

The purchase permit system in NC is a form of de facto waiting period. In some counties it can take over a month to actually get your government permission slip. For what? So you can pay them to run the same background check that NICS was going to do anyway? It irks me because it is stating that a citizen's ability to exercise a right is subject to the whim of an official, and yes it's exactly that: a whim. When the criteria is something vague like "of good moral character", what does that even mean?
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

- Yours Truly

charlesoakwood

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The reason for a "...historical veneration of those institutions we associate with selfless service and sacrifice (i.e. the military, the police, teachers, etc) ..." went out the window when they unionized.
A profession that moves to unionization ceases being a profession or noble service job and moves to total self-service job. They become part of the collective.

Sheriffs say they are politically independent and liken themselves free of the political whims such as the city police are, not so, they are just higher up the food chain.