Weisshaupt, I agree with you, actually, and I don't think we ought to be paying One. More. Cent. either. I don't want to participate in their Ponzi scheme either. Here's the question though: what is to be done about the folks whose money was confiscated; those who paid in?
When folks invested with Bernie Maddoff, did they get their money back? Or was it just lost? If they could have gotten their money back by forcing others to make up the difference and make them whole at gun point, would it be right to do so? I know no one here on this forum is trying to do anything other than get back what they were forced to put in. But here is the hard fact : Your money was stolen out of the trust fund by politicians who make Bernie Madoff look like a rank amateur. We all had money on account with "Bernie" - some of us more than others. Why should the result for the "investors" in SS be any different than those who invested with Bernie? Just because the SS fraud is run by people who can use guns to compel another group into the ponzi pyramid before it collapses, and the Bernie Madoff investors lacked such power?
“I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” ? Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
What other than that am I being asked to do? I am being asked to make those who invested more and/or longer, whole, protecting the top rungs of the Ponzi Pyramid , while accepting not only will I never be made whole, but I have to pay to make up other's losses, and be put in an even worse position to take care of myself in old age than anyone loosing their SS check today- because I can't save for retirement with .05% returns . . How is that moral or Just?
What is to be done is we all take our lumps equally like responsible adults who were the victims of a mugging . Those who have more in also had more time to try and repeal this monstrosity, but the sentiment "yes, we should repeal it, but only after we have got ours and you pay for it" is simply being complicit with the original crime, and buying more time to benefit from what is obviously an immoral and evil wrong. If its cut off today I loose everything I put in as well, but I am not demanding anyone else pay for my losses.
"“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair
Weisshaupt, it pains me to hear you would gladly throw me out on the street.
Do you really believe that SS is bankrupting this nation? Think of all the worthless
and negative money pits that could first be cancelled. And how about the money SSers
have paid in, would you cancel and refund the amount paid in with interest or just
steal it?
SS bankrupting the nation? By itself, no. But Obamacare + Medicare + Medicaid + Foodstamps +SSI and dozens of other handouts and subsidies are. My objection is not merely based on the cost of nor Ponzi nature of the program. The program itself is illegitimate and immoral, as are all programs of this nature. I would still be opposed to Social Security even if it were well run, the trust fund still existed and it were not a Ponzi scheme.
1) It provides a moral hazard to individuals to not take personal responsibility for the welfare of their own families ( as LV pointed out) and promotes an entitlement mindset
2) The program is completely unconstitutional - there being no power to run or administrate it. This program too was found to NOT be insurance but a TAX by the Supreme court. This progrma also started paying out immediately, but took in taxes years later. -It is in no way different from Obamacare.
3) It is immoral to violate the rights of others and compel them, under threat fine ( loss of property rights), imprisonment (loss of liberty) , or death (f you resist) to contribute to a program (loss of the right of association) to a program they find morally reprehensible ( right of Conscience and the basis of why the Amish to this day do NOT pay into this system)
But yeah, its also immoral because its Ponzi scheme.
Its probably more accurate to state that I would simply cut off your checks - being thrown to the street as a consequence would be a result of your own decision to not prepare for your retirement adequately, and decision to instead accept blood money collected at gunpoint from the Fed as "charity"
Social Security is not "paying you back" or "paying out benefits for they owe you nothing.
The Supreme Court s ruled that this was the case, and it has been for all of your natural life. .
What you paid all of your life was a tax, with no guarantee or legal promise of benefits. That is why they can cut or raise benefits as they wish today. Given that there were no guarantees regarding benefits, there was ample fore-warning that they should not be depended upon. The bottom line is each and every check you now get is simply money stolen from me, or from my children. Your money is gone. It was stolen and spent. Is it any surprise that I lack compassion for the people willfully supporting and advocating that using government power be used to steal money from me and mine?
If you read the Supreme Court decisions they are soundly based on "the Public Welfare" (using the preamble to explain what the enumerated powers are for to give the Fed a new power) - its pure "Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz" philosophy - that individuals may be sacrificed for the common good, and each check you benefit from is demanding my sacrifice to provide it - and it will never be my turn to be a recipient of the "common good" - its no longer for the general welfare, but for the specific welfare of a specific segment of the population at the expense of everyone else.
Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone here collecting Social Security and getting as much of their earnings back from this corrupt monstrosity of a system as they can. I advocate going on the dole and doing as much as possible to do so, but you should not pretend that there is anything noble or good about that system, or that you are "entitled" to a single dollar you are getting. No one getting a payout from the government is entitled to that money. Yes, it might be money that USED to be yours. But it isn't now. And saying you are "owed it" is like going up to the first stranger you meet after you have been mugged and demanding he give you his wallet , simply because you were mugged. Two wrongs do not make a right. And sure, there are many other things that could be cut long before SS. SS isn't a critical driver as of yet, and other, similar, programs are likely to bring the system down long before it is. But the fact remains that any system that sacrifices the rights of individuals for the "common welfare" is morally wrong, bound to become corrupt, and embodies the very essence of evil - that some have the right to enslave others. No one can morally vote to perpetuate this system one second longer. Go ahead and Milk it while it exists, but it should be abolished in-total at the first opportunity. (but as I original said, the opportunity won't be coming. )
