Author Topic: The First Great Experiment in Capitalist vs Collectivist Economy: 1620s Plymouth  (Read 2473 times)

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Offline Libertas

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http://www.endofinnocence.com/2010/04/communism-vs-free-markets-at-plymouth.html

Keeping the fruits of ones labor.   ::thumbsup::

Property rights.   ::thumbsup::

Free value-based trade.   ::thumbsup::

This kinda reminded me of Rush's story - the true story of Thanksgiving: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2010/11/24/the_true_story_of_thanksgiving3

And just because I was in the neighborhood I thought I would puit this link in here too, seeing as though these brave colonists produced the men who built this nation - http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/pages/static/my_father_s_speech

 ::cool::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline LadyVirginia

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thank you

Quote
John Hart of Trenton, New Jersey, risked his life to return home to see his dying wife. Hessian soldiers rode after him, and he escaped in the woods. While his wife lay on her deathbed, the soldiers ruined his farm and wrecked his homestead. Hart, 65, slept in caves and woods as he was hunted across the countryside. When at long last, emaciated by hardship, he was able to sneak home, he found his wife had already been buried, and his 13 children taken away. He never saw them again. He died a broken man in 1779, without ever finding his family.

that got to me

« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 10:08:39 AM by LadyVirginia »
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline Libertas

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Yes, "lives, fortunes, sacred honor"...meant something then...today?  Not so much.  But the need will arise and the call will go out again. 
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline LadyVirginia

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Yes, "lives, fortunes, sacred honor"...meant something then...today?  Not so much.  But the need will arise and the call will go out again.

And it will be answered.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline whimsicalmamapig

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what amazes me is that there are so many examples of the failure of communal societies (I can barely find an example of a truly successful one unless you include Christian and buddhist monasteries.)

On what examples, other than hope and faith, do these delusional lefties base their continued advocacy for "share the wealth" policy.

Have we allowed the losers to run the country, are they so afraid that they won't succeed that they strive to create a system whereby they are assured an existence in spite of their inability to compete and win? 

I think we should just start referring to the left as a sorry lot of losers who want to game the system, whether it be through guaranteed food, medical care, educational opportunity or employment so that everyone is eligible for a trophy at the end of the game and no one can be called a loser since everyone won?

I think this whole communism thing is based on the feelings of personal inadequacy feelings of karl marx. after that every poor loser globbed onto his theory as a way to forestall the label of loser by a communal sharing of mediocracy
Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Online Pandora

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I don't believe they're afraid due to their own inadequacies; they're not afraid at all.  They suffer from delusions of grandeur, whereby they see themselves as smarter than the average bear, with minor flaws if any, and superior in their "moral virtue", which qualifies them to run everything because us dumbasses keep screwing everything up.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." - Mark Twain

"Let us assume for the moment everything you say about me is true. That just makes your problem bigger, doesn't it?"

Offline Weisshaupt

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what amazes me is that there are so many examples of the failure of communal societies (I can barely find an example of a truly successful one unless you include Christian and buddhist monasteries.)

Actually there were lots of communal societies that worked fine.. they were usually called Tribes or Clans.  Its primitive society at its finest.  The real limiting factor on commune size is based mostly on personal knowledge of the other members of the tribe ( see also " the rule of 100" in business)   Once a community grows too great in  size , and/or the work too specialized, you don't have personal knowledge of everyone in it and can have no reasonable expectation  of a quid pro quo relationship with them.  You might  need the services of a professional but it is unlikely he will need yours.  An individual not pulling their weight can begin to expect to evade detection, and won't be left behind to starve alone in the desert for being a useless tag on.  Once the people in the tribe cannot discipline or shame slackers, either because they don't have personal knowledge of them, or because (as in our society) they are compelled at gun point to uphold their "tribal obligation", the slackers being to run rampant, production falls and poverty follows.

If keep coming back to this quote. And so does the human race.

Quote
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as "bad luck."-Robert Heinlein


 

Offline whimsicalmamapig

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I think they are afraid, afraid to be wrong, afraid to lose,

look at this mess with Syria. talk about lack of cajones. they will only play the game when they can assure success or they won't play at all.

these personality types are best left in charge of the library, the accounting office or bathroom passes in an elementary school. but never I charge of foreign policy or military adventures.  They are the types that end up being quartermasters or human resource officers.

the problem with the  right is that they have been too polite up until now and should start daring the left to put up or shut up,
take Detroit for example, make them explain the failure of Detroit when it has been the poster child for leftist progressive government for almost 60 years. put them on the spot and force them to admit their failures,  take it right to al Sharpton with facts about the percentage of black male crime in America since the beginning of welfare. etc
Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Oh jeez, Whim's...encroaching on rayciss stuff there!

/

To the point, the GOP and most in it are cowardly on raising the Detroit issue exactly because for the fear of being labeled a racist, especially with the first black Prez in office.  Beside's, the genteel Old Guard wing like McCain think it poor form to speak the truth about such sensitive issues...there is a time and a place for that, not now is all we know for sure...they never seem to get around to it.  (Another hill not worth dying for/on!)

There is no opposition party, there are no Democrats & Republicans...there are only statists and those opposed to them, and right now the statists are in the majority.  People like Ted Cruz clearly oppose the statist agenda, but there are not enough of them.  The pillars of society - individualism and individual rights, free economic association, education and tradition...and religion and morals - have been and continue to be assaulted, perverted and redefined to become the opposite of what they were meant to be.  It is no secret how we came to be where we are...but it is shocking, discouraging and infuriating that we allowed it to happen.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Sectionhand

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There must be something in the water which has caused the shrinking of the National Testicles .

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Just saw this.

the problem with the  right is that they have been too polite up until now and should start daring the left to put up or shut up,

Yep, fake collegial comity is a serious problem.  But even more serious is letting the lies of lefty politicians stand, like them calling the TEA Party minority in Congress terrorists with strap on bombs, etc.  It's high time the Pubbies start calling Owebama, Pelousy, Hairy Reid, et.al. 'far left radical progressives'.  Up their name calling by responding with the Truth.  The Pubbies have a winning hand here with stopping OwebamaCare and shutting down the Government, a royal straight flush, but they'll fold because they don't want to offend the Dems nor take them for all they're worth (and they are worth quite a lot these days, those conniving rich 1%ers).


Offline Libertas

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There must be something in the water which has caused the shrinking of the National Testicles .

Is that a quote from Gen. Jack D. Ripper?   ;D  Sure sounds like it!

O.P.E.!

It's the flouridation!   ::exitstageleft::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.