Author Topic: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....  (Read 1170 times)

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Offline IronDioPriest

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Offline Libertas

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 11:27:52 AM »
"it’s no great secret that the US electoral system is mainly a public relations extravaganza… it’s sort of a marketing affair."

No sh*t?!

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Offline AlanS

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 12:35:48 PM »
"it’s no great secret that the US electoral system is mainly a public relations extravaganza… it’s sort of a marketing affair."

No sh*t?!

 ::unknowncomic::

Only for the low information voter. IF, and that's a big if, they'd get off their asses and actually do some research, we wouldn't have near the problems we do today.
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Offline Septugenarian

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 04:35:27 PM »
As some point out, the more youthful members of society are a) busy with family, or b) distracted by the selfish issues of their lives to give a rats behind about issues that affect society as a whole.  Sad but true that most folks just aren't that concerned with "politics" or "economics" or have been brainwashed by our liberal educational institutions.  If emotions don't drive your perceptions, you are another racist.
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Offline John Florida

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 05:15:45 PM »
As some point out, the more youthful members of society are a) busy with family, or b) distracted by the selfish issues of their lives to give a rats behind about issues that affect society as a whole.  Sad but true that most folks just aren't that concerned with "politics" or "economics" or have been brainwashed by our liberal educational institutions.  If emotions don't drive your perceptions, you are another racist.

As much as I agree with you I have to say that from what I have seen at work a good number are willing to listen to somebody that doesn't try to overpower their opinions. The tactic that is working for me is that I make it a challenge to prove me wrong with facts and not John Stewart reports but historic facts.

  Looks like I'm wining more often than losing and have them reading and changing their minds and starting to see the light because they're at an age where they have kids and want to protect their futures.

 I got the racist crap and now they seem to see who the racists are.
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Online benb61

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 05:27:28 PM »
Good for you JF, keep up the good work.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 07:14:29 PM »

As much as I agree with you I have to say that from what I have seen at work a good number are willing to listen to somebody that doesn't try to overpower their opinions. The tactic that is working for me is that I make it a challenge to prove me wrong with facts and not John Stewart reports but historic facts.

I suspect you are seeing false progress. They fundamentally don't like conflict, especially in conflicts where they are losing and being proven wrong.   Maybe they are genuinely convinced for a time-- but its temporary.  Their belief in their own superiority and rightness re-asserts and you have to start over ( usually from scratch)  the next time.  If you are in a position of authority or power, or simply in a position to make their lives miserable (especially if they are ideologically outnumbered) they  start to fake civility and understanding, but they are just waiting for an opportunity to stick it to you in any way they can ( because they can't do it intellectually or by shaming you through peer pressure.)  I really think this thing is genetic - or a function of genetics and environment that can't be altered past a certain age. .. A misguided conservative, once shown the error of his ways, isn't looking to prove you wrong, but to improve their own understanding. They are embarrassed. Chastened. They are not  hostile toward you, but grateful.

  The fact that your co-workers are treating it as a sort of game  of stump the conservative--  means they aren't taking it seriously. These fascists reject the very idea of truth as absurd. Its this "postmodernism" that seems to be the popular term for it now. They think its funny you think there is such a thing as truth or fact. . They are looking ONLY for opportunities to catch you - with clever word play, or in just a simple mistake ( this is why you will so often see the logically cornered liberal strike out suddenly at your grammar or spelling)  so they can dismiss you as stupid.  So they will play this game with you- throwing something till it sticks , and they can dismiss you. Sort of like grade school bullies tossing insults to see what will and won't push your buttons. Probing for weakness. . (You are in the 7th grade and still like pokemon ?!? What a Baby!)    Racism is just one of the (first)  things they throw, almost as some sort of opening ritual ( I even got it from my own mother and sister who grew up in the same home and watched me deliberately choose to go to School in Harlem) .

 Its all just a game for them, one where the object isn't to be right ( for what sort of fool believes in that sort of thing) but prove oneself more clever.    They fundamentally don't care what the truth is, as long as they can feel superior to you.  Its all emotion and ego driven.  If You play defense (as it would appear you are doing) , and play it well, it will just make them mad enough to resort to childish pranks once they realize they can't best you on your own turf.  Then they will play "holier than thou" and just refuse to engage on any topic, having proven they are smarter or better by letting the air out of your tires, or spilling a bucket of water on your head.  They ARE emotionally and intellectually 5 years old. . They will always be that way. There is nothing you can do.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 07:17:45 PM by Weisshaupt »

Offline John Florida

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 07:50:41 PM »

As much as I agree with you I have to say that from what I have seen at work a good number are willing to listen to somebody that doesn't try to overpower their opinions. The tactic that is working for me is that I make it a challenge to prove me wrong with facts and not John Stewart reports but historic facts.

I suspect you are seeing false progress. They fundamentally don't like conflict, especially in conflicts where they are losing and being proven wrong.   Maybe they are genuinely convinced for a time-- but its temporary.  Their belief in their own superiority and rightness re-asserts and you have to start over ( usually from scratch)  the next time.  If you are in a position of authority or power, or simply in a position to make their lives miserable (especially if they are ideologically outnumbered) they  start to fake civility and understanding, but they are just waiting for an opportunity to stick it to you in any way they can ( because they can't do it intellectually or by shaming you through peer pressure.)  I really think this thing is genetic - or a function of genetics and environment that can't be altered past a certain age. .. A misguided conservative, once shown the error of his ways, isn't looking to prove you wrong, but to improve their own understanding. They are embarrassed. Chastened. They are not  hostile toward you, but grateful.

  The fact that your co-workers are treating it as a sort of game  of stump the conservative--  means they aren't taking it seriously. These fascists reject the very idea of truth as absurd. Its this "postmodernism" that seems to be the popular term for it now. They think its funny you think there is such a thing as truth or fact. . They are looking ONLY for opportunities to catch you - with clever word play, or in just a simple mistake ( this is why you will so often see the logically cornered liberal strike out suddenly at your grammar or spelling)  so they can dismiss you as stupid.  So they will play this game with you- throwing something till it sticks , and they can dismiss you. Sort of like grade school bullies tossing insults to see what will and won't push your buttons. Probing for weakness. . (You are in the 7th grade and still like pokemon ?!? What a Baby!)    Racism is just one of the (first)  things they throw, almost as some sort of opening ritual ( I even got it from my own mother and sister who grew up in the same home and watched me deliberately choose to go to School in Harlem) .

 Its all just a game for them, one where the object isn't to be right ( for what sort of fool believes in that sort of thing) but prove oneself more clever.    They fundamentally don't care what the truth is, as long as they can feel superior to you.  Its all emotion and ego driven.  If You play defense (as it would appear you are doing) , and play it well, it will just make them mad enough to resort to childish pranks once they realize they can't best you on your own turf.  Then they will play "holier than thou" and just refuse to engage on any topic, having proven they are smarter or better by letting the air out of your tires, or spilling a bucket of water on your head.  They ARE emotionally and intellectually 5 years old. . They will always be that way. There is nothing you can do.


 These are car sales people,conflict is what they live for.Were at the point where they bring me news that pisses them off.These are people that thought they were libs till they found out that they actually are more conservative and libertarians than libs.
All men are created equal"
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Offline warpmine

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 05:27:30 AM »

As much as I agree with you I have to say that from what I have seen at work a good number are willing to listen to somebody that doesn't try to overpower their opinions. The tactic that is working for me is that I make it a challenge to prove me wrong with facts and not John Stewart reports but historic facts.

I suspect you are seeing false progress. They fundamentally don't like conflict, especially in conflicts where they are losing and being proven wrong.   Maybe they are genuinely convinced for a time-- but its temporary.  Their belief in their own superiority and rightness re-asserts and you have to start over ( usually from scratch)  the next time.  If you are in a position of authority or power, or simply in a position to make their lives miserable (especially if they are ideologically outnumbered) they  start to fake civility and understanding, but they are just waiting for an opportunity to stick it to you in any way they can ( because they can't do it intellectually or by shaming you through peer pressure.)  I really think this thing is genetic - or a function of genetics and environment that can't be altered past a certain age. .. A misguided conservative, once shown the error of his ways, isn't looking to prove you wrong, but to improve their own understanding. They are embarrassed. Chastened. They are not  hostile toward you, but grateful.

  The fact that your co-workers are treating it as a sort of game  of stump the conservative--  means they aren't taking it seriously. These fascists reject the very idea of truth as absurd. Its this "postmodernism" that seems to be the popular term for it now. They think its funny you think there is such a thing as truth or fact. . They are looking ONLY for opportunities to catch you - with clever word play, or in just a simple mistake ( this is why you will so often see the logically cornered liberal strike out suddenly at your grammar or spelling)  so they can dismiss you as stupid.  So they will play this game with you- throwing something till it sticks , and they can dismiss you. Sort of like grade school bullies tossing insults to see what will and won't push your buttons. Probing for weakness. . (You are in the 7th grade and still like pokemon ?!? What a Baby!)    Racism is just one of the (first)  things they throw, almost as some sort of opening ritual ( I even got it from my own mother and sister who grew up in the same home and watched me deliberately choose to go to School in Harlem) .

 Its all just a game for them, one where the object isn't to be right ( for what sort of fool believes in that sort of thing) but prove oneself more clever.    They fundamentally don't care what the truth is, as long as they can feel superior to you.  Its all emotion and ego driven.  If You play defense (as it would appear you are doing) , and play it well, it will just make them mad enough to resort to childish pranks once they realize they can't best you on your own turf.  Then they will play "holier than thou" and just refuse to engage on any topic, having proven they are smarter or better by letting the air out of your tires, or spilling a bucket of water on your head.  They ARE emotionally and intellectually 5 years old. . They will always be that way. There is nothing you can do.


 These are car sales people,conflict is what they live for.Were at the point where they bring me news that pisses them off.These are people that thought they were libs till they found out that they actually are more conservative and libertarians than libs.
Isn't that ironic, bullsh*t car salesmen having been bullsh*tted by lib bullsh*t hook line and sinker. I've dealt with those types before and yes they are live for short term goals.
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Offline John Florida

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 10:52:48 AM »

As much as I agree with you I have to say that from what I have seen at work a good number are willing to listen to somebody that doesn't try to overpower their opinions. The tactic that is working for me is that I make it a challenge to prove me wrong with facts and not John Stewart reports but historic facts.

I suspect you are seeing false progress. They fundamentally don't like conflict, especially in conflicts where they are losing and being proven wrong.   Maybe they are genuinely convinced for a time-- but its temporary.  Their belief in their own superiority and rightness re-asserts and you have to start over ( usually from scratch)  the next time.  If you are in a position of authority or power, or simply in a position to make their lives miserable (especially if they are ideologically outnumbered) they  start to fake civility and understanding, but they are just waiting for an opportunity to stick it to you in any way they can ( because they can't do it intellectually or by shaming you through peer pressure.)  I really think this thing is genetic - or a function of genetics and environment that can't be altered past a certain age. .. A misguided conservative, once shown the error of his ways, isn't looking to prove you wrong, but to improve their own understanding. They are embarrassed. Chastened. They are not  hostile toward you, but grateful.

  The fact that your co-workers are treating it as a sort of game  of stump the conservative--  means they aren't taking it seriously. These fascists reject the very idea of truth as absurd. Its this "postmodernism" that seems to be the popular term for it now. They think its funny you think there is such a thing as truth or fact. . They are looking ONLY for opportunities to catch you - with clever word play, or in just a simple mistake ( this is why you will so often see the logically cornered liberal strike out suddenly at your grammar or spelling)  so they can dismiss you as stupid.  So they will play this game with you- throwing something till it sticks , and they can dismiss you. Sort of like grade school bullies tossing insults to see what will and won't push your buttons. Probing for weakness. . (You are in the 7th grade and still like pokemon ?!? What a Baby!)    Racism is just one of the (first)  things they throw, almost as some sort of opening ritual ( I even got it from my own mother and sister who grew up in the same home and watched me deliberately choose to go to School in Harlem) .

 Its all just a game for them, one where the object isn't to be right ( for what sort of fool believes in that sort of thing) but prove oneself more clever.    They fundamentally don't care what the truth is, as long as they can feel superior to you.  Its all emotion and ego driven.  If You play defense (as it would appear you are doing) , and play it well, it will just make them mad enough to resort to childish pranks once they realize they can't best you on your own turf.  Then they will play "holier than thou" and just refuse to engage on any topic, having proven they are smarter or better by letting the air out of your tires, or spilling a bucket of water on your head.  They ARE emotionally and intellectually 5 years old. . They will always be that way. There is nothing you can do.


 These are car sales people,conflict is what they live for.Were at the point where they bring me news that pisses them off.These are people that thought they were libs till they found out that they actually are more conservative and libertarians than libs.
Isn't that ironic, bullsh*t car salesmen having been bullsh*tted by lib bullsh*t hook line and sinker. I've dealt with those types before and yes they are live for short term goals.

  Most grew up as libs long before the job came along.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 11:23:31 AM »
  Most grew up as libs long before the job came along.

Most Sales Guys I know in my industry ( telecommunications)  are conservative.  I was a Sales Engineer with my sales guy in a Bar the night Columbine broke. I spouted off some stupid liberal crap and he just looked at me and said "You are too smart to stay liberal. At some point you are going to notice you are wrong."  It took another 3-4 years, but yeah, he was right. (and I was chastened and embarrassed by this knowledge. I felt sick and guilty for what I had done)

Growing up a lib is one thing, for we are all subject to the relentless propaganda.  But Critical thinkers can't stay that way without choosing it. . The real fear is that the Libs have figured out a way to kill  the capacity for critical thought at a young age. You can't argue a  person out of a position they never argued themselves into. So it won't surprise me that sales guys can have an awakening-- they are entrepreneurial and risk-takers by nature, and you can't be good at either task without the critical thinking skills to tell fact from fiction.

Online benb61

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Re: When you've lost Noam Chomsky....
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 11:47:43 AM »
well as Churchill said "If you are not a liberal at 20 you have no heart and if you are not a conservative by 30 you have no brain", or something like that.  I had no heart at 20, I have always leaned conservative.
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