Author Topic: Super Earth GJ 1214b in the middle of the Milky Way is "rich" with water  (Read 2363 times)

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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Super Earth GJ 1214b in the middle of the Milky Way is "rich" with water
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2013, 12:38:52 AM »
Again, I have to disagree.

It will take you something greater than 40 years in your time frame because you cannot travel faster than C. But for the observer's time frame it takes you some multiple of your shipboard time and that's the time dilation effect.


WHY do you think that?  I have provided links to multiple site  showing the actual equations, the  math they imply  and its application. Here is a link to a nifty calculator that gives you ships time and stationary frame (Earth) time .  IN reality of course the earth, the sun and  the milky way are all moving, so aren't really stationary.. but now you are really complicating the math.  I understand its counter intuitive  and annoying the universe behaves in this way, but as far as we know, this is actually how it works.  You have to remember the stationary frame is just a reference point. When you are on the ship - YOU ARE "STATIONARY" in the sense that your motion is not obvious to you..   

You are NEVER at any point travelling faster than the speed of light ( as observed in the stationary frame)  However, in order for your mass to travel at near the speed of light, time and space have to bend - and as a result  you experience them differently. Your time will pass slower than the time on earth. When you slow down and re-enter the standard frame,  40 years will have passed on the clocks on earth, but MUCH LESS time will have passed for you, for the time you experienced was time (and space) as it behaves at near the speed of light..  (and speed is distance over time. )  Your "multiple" is a fraction. Time will have passed more slowly for you on the starship relative to the clocks on earth which still show you having spent 40 years in transit.  If they could talk to you in real time you would actually seem to speak slower ( and with a doppler effect change on your voice) - and at extreme speeds, they would just have to record it and play it back massively sped up.   because it would seem you were almost frozen... in a type of time stasis if you prefer. Your travel speeds itself is making the time pass slower for you relative to the people watching on earth.  If you wanted to listen to a message from Earth you would have to slow it down. A Huge amount . The "relativity" is relative to the observer. Once you are both in the same frame again (because you slowed down and are no in sync with earths movement ( you aren't of course, but back to where they are nearly the same - like Florida and Colorado )  - you experience time the same way .

 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 12:47:09 AM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Libertas

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Re: Super Earth GJ 1214b in the middle of the Milky Way is "rich" with water
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2013, 07:38:21 AM »
Sounds great Weisshaupt, but the one thing about Einstein's equations you cannot excape is the mass/velocity problem...you need more power to create more velocity and the added mass to achieve that adds to the additional power you need to push it, and so the paradox intensifies.  So it is an issue of power, right now we have no engine designs to create anywhere near the kind of energy required to propel even a modest long-duration lightly-crewed vehicle anywhere remotely near the speed of light.  Until Stargate technology or stable wormhole backdoors or some exotic new energy source is discovered we aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Online Weisshaupt

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Re: Super Earth GJ 1214b in the middle of the Milky Way is "rich" with water
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2013, 09:36:17 AM »
Sounds great Weisshaupt, but the one thing about Einstein's equations you cannot excape is the mass/velocity problem...you need more power to create more velocity and the added mass to achieve that adds to the additional power you need to push it, and so the paradox intensifies.  So it is an issue of power, right now we have no engine designs to create anywhere near the kind of energy required to propel even a modest long-duration lightly-crewed vehicle anywhere remotely near the speed of light.  Until Stargate technology or stable wormhole backdoors or some exotic new energy source is discovered we aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Bussard Ramjets burn the matter they get from Outer space. The Problem ( as this article states) is that, in order to collect the required amount of fuel , you have to accelerate   at greater than one G ( plus you have to accelerate up to the required speed before the Ramjet starts working without extra fuel (There are some Nuclear rocket designs that could potentially do this )   But the Bussard Ramjet idea could be used in probes and the like. As could the Starwisp approach.  So yeah we have some approaches to actually getting a vehicle to relativistic speed - just not with live, needy water balloons inside.


But Yeah,  we really need FTL.  I guess there is a part of NASA  not concerned with outreach to Muslims that is working on that.

update: [url=http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php]A complete illustrated Guide to all of your space propulsion options, real and theoretical

« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 09:50:48 AM by Weisshaupt »

Offline Libertas

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Re: Super Earth GJ 1214b in the middle of the Milky Way is "rich" with water
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2013, 11:27:54 AM »
Sounds great Weisshaupt, but the one thing about Einstein's equations you cannot excape is the mass/velocity problem...you need more power to create more velocity and the added mass to achieve that adds to the additional power you need to push it, and so the paradox intensifies.  So it is an issue of power, right now we have no engine designs to create anywhere near the kind of energy required to propel even a modest long-duration lightly-crewed vehicle anywhere remotely near the speed of light.  Until Stargate technology or stable wormhole backdoors or some exotic new energy source is discovered we aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Bussard Ramjets burn the matter they get from Outer space. The Problem ( as this article states) is that, in order to collect the required amount of fuel , you have to accelerate   at greater than one G ( plus you have to accelerate up to the required speed before the Ramjet starts working without extra fuel (There are some Nuclear rocket designs that could potentially do this )   But the Bussard Ramjet idea could be used in probes and the like. As could the Starwisp approach.  So yeah we have some approaches to actually getting a vehicle to relativistic speed - just not with live, needy water balloons inside.


But Yeah,  we really need FTL.  I guess there is a part of NASA  not concerned with outreach to Muslims that is working on that.

update: [url=http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php]A complete illustrated Guide to all of your space propulsion options, real and theoretical


The Alcubierre Drive, sounds promising.  We don't have that level of knowledge yet to make it real, but maybe someday...if we don't all get slaughtered...we can get there.

The description of the Alcubierre warp movement makes me think of Frank Herbert's "foldspace" concept.
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Offline Predator Don

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Re: Super Earth GJ 1214b in the middle of the Milky Way is "rich" with water
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2013, 12:27:00 PM »
I don't know the answer but I bet if  Hollywood liberals thought they could travel 40 light years and get younger they would all sign up for the trip. make it happen.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: Super Earth GJ 1214b in the middle of the Milky Way is "rich" with water
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2013, 07:05:21 AM »
Heh!

And we don't care if they make it or not...

 ::newyear::
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