Topic: flowers have a right to live

[whimsicalmamapig]

I have truly enjoyed the many humorous responses to my original posting, but humor aside:

the people who were the inspiration for the proposed legislation are serious and determined in their agenda.  While it may seem insignificant because the concept of banning all killing of plants and animals is ridiculous, we have just witnessed the raid on an Alaskan gold mine by armed EPA agents in full body armor.

rather than dismiss these fanatics as inconsequential we should formulate tactics that will eviscerate the basic concepts upon which these nutty ideas are promulgated.

If the right/conservative cultural ethos is to persist as the guiding principles of this nation they must create a platform that relegates the more fanatic and outlying concepts of the left to the trash heap of cultural history where they belong.

for too long we have been politely allowing the far left a wide berth to spew their ideas without pushback because we have been too reticent to call (and pardon my political incorrectness here) a spade a spade. most of what has been proffered by the left has been highly questionable and based not on millennium of practical experience but a few months debate in a faculty lounge.

this is serious business and I am not seeing a majority of americans even much aware of the definite and drastic change that has happened very subtly in the last half century. I am an older American and I can take note of the differences in the culture and I am growing less certain that things can be turned around in the time we have left

[Pandora]

... we should formulate tactics ............  we have been too reticent to call (and pardon my political incorrectness here) a spade a spade.

We don't do political correctness here; no pardon required.

Who, exactly is "we"?

What tactics?

Who has been too reticent?

[whimsicalmamapig]

I was speaking in the general state as in "we" americans who see the problems that have been evolving since Woodrow Wilson but more specifically the last 50+ years.

tactics would be those that are at least as smart and as effective as the ones the left have been using the last 50 years to generate a cultural revolution based on an entitlement mentality that see government as the solution rather than the impediment.

Our tactics would need to generate a regrowth of the self-reliant individualism that created a nation of free people wanting only the opportunity to thrive and shame those who would strive to live on the system with contributing to it.

anyone who will not make a comment or attempt to educate citizens as to the degeneration of our national heritage into a quasi-socialist utopian fantasy land is who I would call reticent.

[LadyVirginia]

Honestly, I think it will take more than tactics at this point. The problem is not just with the ones on the lazy left.  There are MANY in the center to the right who can be blamed too.  NO ONE thinks they're the problem.  I know "conservatives" who are just as narcissistic as the liberals. They don't think their behavior impacts society because they don't see themselves as takers. (They "earned" the money to be personally irresponsible or to not be much of a producer unlike the welfare members.) They contribute to general attitude of it's someone else's problem, everything is ok as long as I get what's mine. Lack of personal responsibility is prevalent in all sectors of society.

[whimsicalmamapig]

exactly, while I am within the age to get social security, and I will welcome it, I do realize that it isn't "mine" to take as I will never have put in what I will be eligible for by way of medicare etc. but many of my boomer age group do not understand that. they really think they are just taking what is rightfully theirs. totally clueless and kept that way by their own government.

I take particular umbrage at the new round of us postal service ads where these "hard working" postal people are trying to save their jobs when I can recall years of dealing with high-handed postal clerks who viewed your requests at the local post office as an infringement on their personal time.  I really enjoy watching them try to convince me that they are worth the money..... they haven't a clue to why their quasi-governmental unionized business is hiving its clock cleaned by fedex and ups.

[IronDioPriest]

exactly, while I am within the age to get social security, and I will welcome it, I do realize that it isn't "mine" to take as I will never have put in what I will be eligible for by way of medicare etc. but many of my boomer age group do not understand that. they really think they are just taking what is rightfully theirs. totally clueless and kept that way by their own government.

You're describing my mother. She gets vehement when we discuss these things, because, "by God, your dad worked his whole life and that Social Security money is his." She doesn't get it. She actually has the mentality that as long as they get what they've been promised, then the insolvency of the whole thing is unfortunate, but not her problem.

It's infuriating. I get it, but it's infuriating.

[Weisshaupt]

If the right/conservative cultural ethos is to persist as the guiding principles of this nation they must create a platform that relegates the more fanatic and outlying concepts of the left to the trash heap of cultural history where they belong.

I am afraid the only platform that will do that now is AR-15

[Weisshaupt]

I slaughtered a whole bunch of non-hallucinogenic weeds at the lake...   

 How do you sleep nights after a day of murder??

At least you slaughtered them outright, I deprived a section of lawn of sunlight by placing a tarpaulin on them for the broken up concrete patio. Good thing I don't travel out of the country much lest I be charged and tried in the Hague.

We grew a whole field of them to be slaughtered for my petty need to eat. But with the Flood, God beat me to it. What does God let bad things happen to good plants?

[Weisshaupt]

You're describing my mother. She gets vehement when we discuss these things, because, "by God, your dad worked his whole life and that Social Security money is his." She doesn't get it. She actually has the mentality that as long as they get what they've been promised, then the insolvency of the whole thing is unfortunate, but not her problem.

It's infuriating. I get it, but it's infuriating.

But that is the thing - they didn't work their whole lives to get it, they were stolen from their whole lives to provide it for someone else ( and any "extra" that was saved,  was stolen to buy "US Treasuries" - or in  other  words,  transferred  into the general fund with an IOU places on a future generation. ANd that IOU is what they claim is "theirs" - when they know perfectly well its a claim to take form others - other who they KNOW will never even have the chance to act immorally and take from someone else to "get theirs"

 I too "get it" but if the only way to get yours is to perpetuate the evil, and force still others to pay in, then it is wrong to claim it as yours.  Two wrongs don't make a right.   If you get it before the collapse that fine, BUT YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO IT,  any more than the previous generation was entitled to their money.

[Pandora]

totally clueless and kept that way by their own government.

No, I'm sorry, but that is wrong.  They are not "kept", they choose to refuse delivery of the relevant and factual information.  They choose to believe the lie.

[whimsicalmamapig]

Pandora, while I appreciate your belief that any true sentient being has an obligation to know the facts, if you spend any amount of time talking with much younger people you will realize that they truly believe they have all the facts because that is what they are taught in K-PHD.
 they truly don't know what they do not know and I don't think they are as much choosing to stay uninformed as much as they just have been taught to:
 
1) not think for themselves but accept what ever is taught them by an authority figure

2) believe that what ever this leftist authority figures tells them is the true knowledge and anything coming from an alternative source is the product of groups out to return the country to its pre-enlightened state before the 60"s or over-throw the government.

3) only that which is "sanctified" by the federal government is acceptable, and the closer you get to what Washington holds as true, the closer you get to the absolute truth.

[Pandora]

And we weren't really discussing young people, we were discussing "boomer-age".

Younger folks have a sort-of excuse -- they're inexperienced and haven't yet had much of real life smack 'em in the face.

Social Security collecting folks are not "kept" ignorant, they choose it.

[whimsicalmamapig]

I'll agree with you on that, but you must admit that the amount of propaganda that is dispersed via the media, the doctors office, AARP, and other such quasi-governmental organizations it is easier to just accept what is being fed to you than to search for contradictory info. especially if you are not pre-disposed to thinking beyond what is on sale at the mall and what is on tv that night.

the boomers were probably initially correct to trust what the government told them, they had followed them successfully through WWII but with the rise of the cold war and the 60's counterculture that embraced communism/socialism especially at the academic level, you see the bifurcation beginning in our culture. I have many a boomer friend who has gone totally down the leftist path, mostly to enable their desire for recreational drugs, free love of whatever sort, and academic freedom to think way beyond the box.

[Pandora]

.... mostly to enable their desire for recreational drugs, free love of whatever sort, and academic freedom to think way beyond the box.

See, that's what I'm talking about -- their desires; they are able to rationalize away what they choose not to acknowledge in favor of their druthers.  And that ain't exactly thinking outside the box.

IDP's given many examples of how he's tried to talk to his mother, to no avail.  When the older folks give you "talk to the hand", it's because they don't wanna know.  For them, it's Period.  End of story.

[IronDioPriest]

Perhaps my point of view is skewed because I have spent so much of my personal time and energy on getting and staying informed. But while I understand that there are powerful forces aligned to keep people ignorant and filled with lies, I take the point of view that it is incumbent on each individual to be as informed as their access to information allows.

These days, with the Internet, there really is no excuse for anyone to be completely ignorant of current events, or the specific dynamic of the struggle we're in. People are misinformed, yes. And certainly all the facts are not available, as so much effort is placed into obfuscation and lies. But those things notwithstanding, the information is out there to eradicate liberal thinking from all but the committed Leftists. Everyone else, it seems to me, chooses to remain ignorant.

[whimsicalmamapig]

while I agree with IronDioPriest on the surface, what I observe is that the "right" isn't good at spreading the message. We of the puritanical, traditional cast feel that it is incumbent on you to do the work or else you will be seen as a slacker. In fact the left has been much more successful spoonfeeding the lie to the lazy and thus they have turned many more hearts and minds.

The "right" needs to get a good ad agency and learn how to sell their ideas. Plus we aren't offering free stuff, we need to first create a sense of shame and lack of self respect in the potential convert just to get them on board,

we are a reserved and stand-offish group that puts the onus on those whom we wish to convert while the left opens their arms, offers free stuff and says no matter what we are your group

does anyone else see that we are starting the game with a 1o point advantage to the other side.

[LadyVirginia]

I sent my "conservative" mother a link to an article detailing how Fox News promotes the homosexual agenda.  She didn't respond to my email.

She is a member of AARP because they have good insurance rates! 

She buys from retailers that give to Planned Parenthood because...I don't know why on that one.

But she did call the cops once when she saw some Arab men taking pictures of her apartment building.

 

[whimsicalmamapig]

I get mailings from aarp all the time and the go directly to the circular file or delete button. I wouldn't trust them farther than I could throw them.

but it is so safe to just let these established groups lead the way, maybe the "right" should point out what hapless suckers people are for just taking the first advice they receive in the mail.

unless the "right" can prove what chumps most people are for following the left, and do it in a way that lets them feel that they have been betrayed, mislead and abused by the left and the "right" is there to bring them back to the light of self-respect and personal integrity, there is little hope of moving this once great nation back to its core.

[Pandora]

while I agree with IronDioPriest on the surface, what I observe is that the "right" isn't good at spreading the message. We of the puritanical, traditional cast feel that it is incumbent on you to do the work or else you will be seen as a slacker. In fact the left has been much more successful spoonfeeding the lie to the lazy and thus they have turned many more hearts and minds.

whims, "puritanical"?  Really.

IDP's talked to his mother, LV's communicated with hers.  I've gone into combat with my own on the issue of corporate greed so many times, it isn't even funny; she knows better than to even say the phrase anymore.

You cannot, simply cannot, feed -- spoon or otherwise -- those who refuse the food of knowledge.

The "right" needs to get a good ad agency and learn how to sell their ideas. Plus we aren't offering free stuff, we need to first create a sense of shame and lack of self respect in the potential convert just to get them on board, we are a reserved and stand-offish group that puts the onus on those whom we wish to convert while the left opens their arms, offers free stuff and says no matter what we are your group does anyone else see that we are starting the game with a 1o point advantage to the other side.

Who is the "right"?  We all here are the "right" and we make one step forward progress with those that will LISTEN to every two steps back with those who don't want to know.

And if you're suggesting free stuff as an enticement, fuggedabouddit; if we have to go that way, we've lost.

You cannot sell to those who are not buying.  Do you not get that?  You seem to think if we just ... -- um, lemme see we'll put this word here and that word there and rearrange this paragraph  -- get the words right in the right order, "they" will get it.  They. Won't.  They. Don't Want To.

Doll, you think we can still save this thing by talking.  We can't.  Some people just need to eat their pain in order to wise up.

[Glock32]

I think I get what whimsical is saying. It's basically the same thing Rush Limbaugh said the day after the 2012 election: you can't beat Santa Claus. We start off with a deficit because we're the side that is not promising "free" this or that, we're the side that is not telling people that their sins and character flaws are all fine and dandy.

It's sort of like when you have one parent who is trying to imbue a sense of responsibility into the kids, and the other parent saying "Cake and ice cream for dinner again!", well, the responsible parent is at an automatic disadvantage.