Author Topic: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor  (Read 5912 times)

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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2013, 10:26:05 PM »
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Several of you have the mistaken notion that there's a wrong, crooked, dirty cop on every street corner just waiting to beat the hell out of somebody just for the exercise.


I don't march to that drumbeat. For every wrong, crooked, dirty cop there are a couple dozen that are out there beating feet, seeing the absolute dregs of humanity, staying above it all, and being a service to their community.


You guys can live in your persecuted world if you like. I choose not to.


Eupher,

As a Christian, an officer of the court (an attorney) and a recently admitted member of the DAR I take offense to your broad brush accusation whether you meant to include me or not.

One brutal cop is not excused by a dozen good ones. The 94 year old veteran that was bean bagged to death wasn't helped by anyone else in the room at the time nor by the thousands of good cops across the nation.  We are now ruled by an out of control commander in chief should I not complain because my local politician is a good guy? 

The question for me is who do we expect to exercise self-control?  The cop with the deadly weapon or the suspect already in custody? If my daughter gets mouthy should I be allowed to smack the crap out of her because if she hadn't crossed the line I wouldn't have to do that?  Or should I as the bigger  or stronger of us and the one exercising authority exhibit some self-control when it's apparent I'm not in any danger?

The issue to me isn't about a  world view that all cops are dirty (a popular minority view) but that the world we live in is allowing certain of these people who have been given authority to cross the line. It is our duty as citizens to see that our rights are protected and that may mean calling out those who cross the line.

Do not question for one minute that I don't honor those who execute their lawful duty on our behalf. I will not forget those who did just that on September 11, 2001:

The 23 NYPD officers, including four sergeants and two detectives, who died at the scene were:
Sgt. Timothy A. Roy, Sr., 36
Sgt. John Gerard Coughlin, 43
Sgt. Rodney C. Gillis, 33
Sgt. Michael S. Curtin, 45
Det. Joseph V. Vigiano, 34
Det. Claude Daniel Richards, 46
Moira Ann Smith, 38
Ramon Suarez, 45
Paul Talty, 40
Santos Valentin, Jr., 39
Walter E. Weaver, 30
Ronald Philip Kloepfer, 39
Thomas M. Langone, 39
James Patrick Leahy, 38
Brian Grady McDonnell, 38
John William Perry, 38
Glen Kerrin Pettit, 30
John D'Allara, 47
Vincent Danz, 38
Jerome M. P. Dominguez, 37
Stephen P. Driscoll, 38
Mark Joseph Ellis, 26
Robert Fazio, Jr., 41

 ::USA::
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 10:51:33 PM »
I think it goes without saying that the majority of cops are just basically good guys doing the best they can to do a good job. At least that's my assumption based on my own experience.

That doesn't mean that where and when we see bad cops doing bad things - or even heretofore good cops doing bad things- that we should not call it what it is, and demand accountability.

Look, I think I get what Eupher's saying. Stay out of trouble, and you avoid all cops - good and bad. Her bad was the first bad that led to the other bads.

But a criminal is by definition a law breaker. They are a variable. Police training and the law provide specific remedies for cops to address those variables. The fact that the criminal is out of line is a given. The cops have a duty to respond to that with professionalism.

ETA: LadyV... how did I not know you were an attorney?
 ::whatgives::
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 11:00:43 PM by IronDioPriest »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2013, 10:55:32 PM »
Stay out of trouble, and you avoid all cops - good and bad.

Not necessarily. With all the roadblocks and other things, and with a cop having a hair up his asssss, you can be confronted with good and/or bad cops.
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2013, 11:02:02 PM »
ETA: LadyV... how did I not know you were an attorney?
 ::whatgives::

heh

I prefer to let my comments speak for themselves--my degrees don't give them any more credibility so I haven't mentioned it until now

ETA: also I've found it's better not to mention my expertise and thus I avoid people who want free advice....   ;D



« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 11:17:18 PM by LadyVirginia »
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2013, 11:09:40 PM »
ETA: LadyV... how did I not know you were an attorney?
 ::whatgives::

heh

I prefer to let my comments speak for themselves--my degrees don't give them any more credibility so I haven't mentioned it until now

Defense or prosecution? Criminal or civil? I have a LOT of experience with civil attorneys; I was product Liability Claim manager for a major manufacturer of water heaters. I've testified at 4 trials and had my deposition taken 32 times. It got to the point that I would only hire CCP* lawyers and had them in about 30 states.

*(Card Carrying Pri**)

I loved that job..........but the company relocated and I would not.
U.S. Coast Guard veteran, 1964-1968

Will Rogers never met Barack Obama. He would not like Obama.

I hate liberals. Liberalism is a disease that causes severe brain damage after it tries to suck knowledge and history out of yours.

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2013, 11:18:42 PM »
I think I'll leave it at plain ole attorney.
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Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2013, 11:23:12 PM »
OK!
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I hate liberals. Liberalism is a disease that causes severe brain damage after it tries to suck knowledge and history out of yours.

Offline Libertas

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2013, 07:23:35 AM »
Well, at least we know who to nominate as AG if we ever get to carve out a liberty zone!   ::thumbsup::
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2013, 10:25:22 AM »
Well, at least we know who to nominate as AG if we ever get to carve out a liberty zone!   ::thumbsup::

 ::exitstageleft::
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Offline Glock32

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2013, 09:56:45 PM »
I haven't added anything to this particular debate, but let me just go on record as saying that I do, in fact, suggest there is a crooked cop on every corner looking to beat the hell out of people.

I have witnessed an unmistakable change in the overall posture of the ostensibly civilian police forces in this country. They have become far more militant, confrontational, aggressive, abusive, condescending, and imperious. They have acquired the mindset of enforcers who are above the laws they enforce, and they have cultivated an Us vs. Them mentality.

I know they aren't all bad. In fact I suspect the majority are still individually decent. But I think institutionally they have become rotten and are reflective of the perversion of the relationship between Citizen and State. Let's just say I am all out of benefits of the doubt these days.
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Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2013, 09:25:05 AM »
I think a minority's hatred of cops came before the cops started going militant.
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Online Pandora

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2013, 10:12:53 PM »
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LEWISVILLE, TX — Police repeatedly shot and then tasered a mentally ill 67 year-old woman for not immediately complying with their orders to drop a letter opener. David and Dolores Seyfried’s already difficult life together was made that much harder when overzealous police officers violently subdued her, treating them both like unruly criminals without charging either of them with a specific crime. Her suffering was made worse, and their home was unnecessarily searched by officers whose disregard for the Fourth Amendment demonstrates a clear contempt for the very people they are charged to “serve and protect.”

David Seyfried is suing the City of Lewisville Police Department and six of its officers on behalf of his wife Dolores Seyfried, an Alzheimer’s sufferer.

According to Courthouse News Service, the civil suit alleges that police repeatedly shot and Tasered 67 year-old Alzheimer’s patient Dolores Seyfried as her husband David begged them to “put the gun away.” After Dolores was taken to the hospital by ambulance, the police “declared ‘exigent circumstance’ and searched their home against his objections.” In his complaint, David alleges that the police told him that they had “saved his ass today” by brutally subduing his wife, though she was attempting to walk away from them.

What led to the police to violently disregard both the individual rights and property rights of David and Dolores Seyfried?

The incident began on May 29, when Dolores, an Alzheimer’s patient, became “agitated with David and had a four [to] five-inch letter opener in her hand” at their home in Lewisville, a Dallas suburb. Though he was confident that he would be able to calm Dolores, David Seyfried called the Dallas Alzheimer’s Association seeking advice and support. The DAA’s response to the situation was to contact the Lewisville police without his consent, says Seyfried.

According to a federal lawsuit, when LPD Officers George Reed and Sgt. Courtney Letalien arrived, David and Dolores were in the backyard; Dolores was still holding the letter opener, and David was trying to calm her down. When she walked in to the yard, “(Sgt.) Letalien immediately attempted to remove David from the back yard while holding an orange shotgun in his hand,” the complaint states.

Less Lethal Shotgun (Source: pro-patria.us)

Seyfried explained to the officers that he had not been stabbed and did not believe that Dolores posed a threat to anyone. He repeatedly pleaded with the officer to put the gun away, believing at that time that such measures were not necessary. He assured them that, given a few minutes, he was sure he could get her to calm down, even if she could not comply with their orders to drop the letter opener. Sgt. Letalien continued to force David to the front of the house so that he would not be able to witness what was happening with his wife.

It was at this point, while David was arguing with Sgt. Letalien, that Officer George reed fired upon Delores Seyfried with his Taser. He then proceeded to shoot her three times with the “less lethal” orange shotgun, possibly loaded with rubber bullets or beanbags.

“When Delores did not fall, Letalien immediately shot Delores with the less lethal shotgun at her thigh,” the complaint states. “When once again Delores did not fall or release the letter opener, Letalien shot Delores once again in the other thigh. The second round did knock Delores to the ground but she was able to get back on her feet. Defendants allege that Delores maintained her hand on the letter opener during this time. When Delores turned to walk away from the officers, Letalien shot Delores a third time in the left buttocks with the shotgun. When the third round did not cause Delores to fall, Letalien switched to his Taser and deployed a cartridge with one probe hitting Delores in the back and the other hitting her on her right buttocks. Letalien found this force to be ‘effective’ when she fell to the ground.” [source]

Officer Reed then tried to step on her wrist to handcuff her, according to David, breaking it in two places. Thinking she was resisting, Reed Tasered her a second time while on the ground.

Doctors later closed a cut on her chin and a gash on her head, requiring 17 staples to repair the damage. After using a great deal of unnecessary violence against her, the police proceeded to further violate the Seyfried’s Fourth Amendment rights against unreasonable searches. Against David’s objections, the police searched their home without consent by declaring “exigent circumstances.” It was after an ambulance transported Dolores to the hospital that they then told David that they had “saved his ass,” ostensibly by violently attacking his confused, disoriented wife.

Adding insult to injury, the police then called the Dallas Alzheimer’s Association and reported that David was incapable of taking care of Dolores. “This action was unnecessary and … it was done with actual malice,” David says.

Additionally, Seyfried says, the vicious attack by police officers has “increased the severity of her Alzheimer’s and she now requires around-the-clock nursing staff.” What began as simply a husband’s effort to seek help in caring for his elderly, mentally ill wife ended with both lives being ruined at the hands of an overzealous autocrat’s pointless brutality. The worsening of her condition at the hands of remorseless police officers may have destroyed what remained of their life together. Courthouse News Service reported that “the Lewisville Police Department sent nine squad cars to the home, but no charges were brought against Delores, her husband says.”

I am reminded again of Justice Robert H. Jackson’s position regarding warrantless searches and the Fourth Amendment:

“The point of the Fourth Amendment which often is not grasped by zealous officers is not that it denies law enforcement the support of the usual inferences which reasonable men draw from evidence. Its protection consists in requiring that those inferences be drawn by a neutral and detached magistrate, instead of being judged by the officer engaged in the often competitive enterprise of ferreting out crime.”

Incidents like this demonstrate why Police can be a terrible option for dealing with nonviolent, noncompliant individuals who pose little direct threat to anyone but themselves. Increasingly, they seem ill-equipped to handle even the most mundane situations without resorting to the extreme, militaristic limits of their training. Tasers and guns are the first, not last, response to anything considered a threat, no matter how remote. Disregarding the basic human rights and property rights of those that they are sworn to protect makes the Lewisville Police Department appear less concerned with public safety than they are with wielding absolute authoritarian control over the lives of its city’s people.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/texas-police-shot-tasered-67-year-old-alzheimers-patient-when-she-wouldnt-drop-letter-opener/

Well, now, lemme see; what lesson can we take from this sad tale:  1) David should never have made a call to the Society looking for help and 2) the dementia lady should have dropped the letter opener ....

... because ...

... if they hadn't done what they had done, the cops wouldn't have responded in the way they did.
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Offline warpmine

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2013, 06:22:04 AM »
It all leads to what's happening now, dehumanize your foe or enemy and you've then taken away the basic attitude of civility. It all leads to the road we've all read about. Why do you care about a few Jews or list ethnicity here. Personally, I despise drunk driving, however, we can't assume everyone cited is out to purposely do it(obviously some don't care). We have made penalties stiffer for the offenders but we still must insist the police be civil or face the consequences of what we have today. Still, I can't help wondering that we've done this to ourselves via separating ourselves from the only being that understands us, our Creator. Every civilization that has thrown Him out winds up as a perfect example of despotism as the people are nothing but parts to move around fro the cause of the state.
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Offline LadyVirginia

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2013, 09:50:32 AM »
There was a time when police brutality alleged by a minority got plenty of attention and the cops had to go out of their way to prove they weren't bad.  Now?  I don't think they care as much.

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Online Pandora

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2013, 03:01:06 PM »
Quote
This may not be the first instance of sexual assault by LaSalle County, either.  Five other women have come forward due to Dana Holmes’ bravery, claiming that they were also victimized by abusive jailers and strip-searched.

“Dana Holmes in my opinion was not an isolated case,” said Terry Ekl, who filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of a 33-year-old Coal City woman for similar abuse in jail.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/humilated-and-groped-female-dui-suspect-stripped-naked-by-four-deputies-in-jail-cell/

H/T Grouchy's
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Online IronDioPriest

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2013, 03:51:36 PM »
Nail them to the wall.
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Libertas

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2013, 07:27:31 AM »
Nail them to the wall.

Nekked.

And then let the abused come forth to administer justice.

Oh, and BTW, just so we make it clear we don't like dirty cops....all clean cops should be 100% behind kicking this kind of scum off the team and have them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...any other opinion is the same as condoning this behavior...and that means I don't want to hear any hiding behind union skirts!  Stand forth and be counted!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Offline Libertas

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2013, 08:24:46 AM »
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: Officers rip woman's clothes off, leave her naked on cell floor
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2013, 08:58:34 AM »
Nail them to the wall.

Nekked.

And then let the abused come forth to administer justice.

Oh, and BTW, just so we make it clear we don't like dirty cops....all clean cops should be 100% behind kicking this kind of scum off the team and have them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...any other opinion is the same as condoning this behavior...and that means I don't want to hear any hiding behind union skirts!  Stand forth and be counted!

Trouble is, cops stand behind other cops, right or wrong.
U.S. Coast Guard veteran, 1964-1968

Will Rogers never met Barack Obama. He would not like Obama.

I hate liberals. Liberalism is a disease that causes severe brain damage after it tries to suck knowledge and history out of yours.