Topic: End Game?

[trapeze]

What if the Democrats don't accept any solution?

What if the administration's plan is to actually allow the "default" to happen and then blame it on the Republicans?

What if their actual plan is to cause a global economic crisis or a worldwide depression?

A lot of us have theorized that Obama is all about fundamental change for the US but what if he is looking at something bigger?

What if his plan is to not just crash the US economy (in order to throw out the Constitution and begin anew) but to crash the world economy?

I do believe that our president is an evil person. I sincerely believe that. I have also thought that he is a rather stupid person as well. He surrounds himself with stupid people and that is a trademark move of the inept so as not to be threatened by superior minds. An evil genius would be bad. But what about an evil dumbass? Would that be better or worse than an evil genius?

Either way, if this is his plan...to well and fully crash the system...then we are all truly and thoroughly hosed.

I mean, a lot of people say that if there is no debt ceiling deal come this Thursday that it's not a big deal, that we don't just automatically default. And I believe that. There is obviously enough money coming in from collected taxes, fees and penalties to make debt service. But...

There is also zero reason to order the Parks Service to act like gestapo thugs during the shutdown (that isn't a shutdown) and yet, here we are. The Parks Service is technically breaking the law by preventing citizens from accessing open air public places such as the Lincoln Memorial, the WWII Memorial, The Jefferson Memorial...these are, for all intents and purposes, scenery rather than places like museums that require electricity, water, sewer and staff. The Obama admin has decided to actually break the law in order to achieve its ends in this case. AoS makes a very compelling argument for the illegal nature of the Parks Service behavior. Click here to read it...the important points are at the end.

So...if the administration is unafraid to technically break the law, and it appears that they are not, then there is absolutely zero reason to expect them to do what all sensible and honorable borrowers do: make debt service payments. If you can direct the Secretary of the Interior to order the Parks Service to behave outside of the law then there is pretty much no reason to expect any sort of different behavior over at Treasury.

My concern is that this is the end game...that the president has wanted to do this all along and that he will do it and that he will blame it on the Republicans (not that it would matter all that much after the fact) and the world pretty much gets turned on its end after that.

I guess we will know in a few more days.

[Pandora]

If he does not make the debt service payments and then blames the Republicans, a POX ON THE HOUSES of all the idiots -- and some conservatives and Republicans alike -- who have been blathering all week, erroneously so, about defaultdefaultdefault.

NOT raising the debt limit does NOT equal default and this is what should have been repeated again and again so the people know what's what.

I don't know, trap, what is over the horizon.

Pray.

[warpmine]

If he does not make the debt service payments and then blames the Republicans, a POX ON THE HOUSES of all the idiots -- and some conservatives and Republicans alike -- who have been blathering all week, erroneously so, about defaultdefaultdefault.

NOT raising the debt limit does NOT equal default and this is what should have been repeated again and again so the people know what's what.

I don't know, trap, what is over the horizon.

Pray.

Pan is right in that respect. Love to see McCain and his lover Lindsey blame default on someone other than his Royal Sphincter.

Again, at this point at least we'll find out who's side the military is on and the game will be on.
Can it be worse at this point. The population will be thinned out in a big way as they forage for food amongst the fully armed and waiting to take them out country folk. Freaking money is worthless and we'll see how far that goes when trying to pay secret service.....

[Pablo de Fleurs]

Coming soon to a town near you.

The Book Of Eli Town Shootout

[Libertas]

Lets not get to ahead of ourselves...afterall the so-called shutdown so far has only reduced Federal operations to 83-85%...and there does not have to be default for the government to live of its current revenues as long as it adheres to the law and satisifies bondholder interest and principle payments and funds whatever it wants with whatever is left over...this condition is known to all of us as "normal pay-as-you-go living".

Having said that I cannot in no way dismiss the concerns of Trap and many others that O'Bongo is planning on using this situation as a power play and he doesn't give a damn about the destruction as long as his power is increased and unchallenged.

If it be the latter we gain nothing by not forcing his hand now...because he can only consolidate his power more later...if it is time for rat-killin' then so be it.

[Weisshaupt]

What if the Democrats don't accept any solution?

What if the administration's plan is to actually allow the "default" to happen and then blame it on the Republicans?

What if their actual plan is to cause a global economic crisis or a worldwide depression?

If you read the oath-keepers war-gaming scenario, this is exactly what they  plan-- economic collapse, spurring Martial Law and Emergency powers. Obama will declare a bank holiday, and confiscate all savings. He will then use the NDAA and various EOs to try and seize farms, force you into work parties, and confiscate firearms.  Are they really arrogant enough to think they could get away with it?  You bet.  Are they that stupid to try? Maybe.

The Fed acted during the great depression and made things worse.. was that foolishness or design? The desperation is what allowed FDR to push though his socialist reforms. Obama and his handler may be planning the same. Obama is not calling these shots, that is for sure. I agree with Barnhardt, TPTB will have him executed the second it suits their purposes... and the Above scenario would be the ideal time to do that.. Maybe kill enough Dems that Orange Man is in charge and hope that stays the Conservative hand and makes them accept martial law...  so many ways this could go down.,. the fact we are seeing EBT system "glitches" is not encouraging... making sure they will get the violence they expect..

[oldcoastie6468]

Having said that I cannot in no way dismiss the concerns of Trap and many others that O'Bongo is planning on using this situation as a power play and he doesn't give a damn about the destruction as long as his power is increased and unchallenged.

If it be the latter we gain nothing by not forcing his hand now...because he can only consolidate his power more later...if it is time for rat-killin' then so be it.

I've said for a long time that O'Bongobastid wants to be the king of the world, and that he'll stop at nothing to ensure his dreams come true. That includes ignoring our Constitution and all the laws in this country.

[ToddF]

The Republicans caved on Friday, in every possible way.  We'll open government back up for you in exchange for higher spending across the board.

 

Ya.

SCoaMF rejected.  SCoaMF saved Republicans from themselves.  I can only think of one reason why.

What if the Democrats don't accept any solution?

What if the administration's plan is to actually allow the "default" to happen and then blame it on the Republicans?

OK, as Joe Biden would say, three reasons.  Anyway, Trap nails it.

[Glock32]

Could they be plotting some variation of the SkyNet strategy?  SkyNet, from the Terminator movies, was the self aware computer network that launched nuclear missiles against the USSR because it knew the Soviet counterattack would destroy SkyNet's enemies here.

The SkyNet Strategy. Not necessarily nuclear weapons (but hell, who knows any more) but something that would precipitate retaliation against the US (even if it's only economic retaliation) to serve the regime's ultimate goals of inflicting damage to its enemies here. "Punish your enemies" remember.

[trapeze]

Oh, and we are going to NOT increase the debt ceiling by Thursday. It's not possible for things to go otherwise now.

So, I guess we will find out if President Shutdown will also be President Default because, as I said above, there is now no reason to not believe that he will do whatever he wants to do. And if King Putt wants to default then he will default. And he will then, via the MFM, blame it on the Republicans. He won't blame it on the Tea Party. He will blame it on the Republicans and count on the RINOs to blame it on the Tea Party in order to divide his opponents.

After that, it's anyone's guess what happens. Once the default door is opened...who knows? There are people out there who claim that O'Bongo is playing three dimensional chess while the Republicans are playing checkers. While I will not deny that the Establishment Republicans are the epitome of inept, I think that overestimating the strategery of the SmartPower brigade is a serious mistake. President Shutdown doesn't care much about what happens after the sh*t hits the fan*. I don't believe he has thought beyond blowing up the economy. I think that he believes, since he's president, he can just wing it.

At least, that's the way that I see things going down.


*Witness Libya. Witness Egypt. Witness Syria.

[Libertas]

Seriously I think the GOP could expose this if they only pulled their head out of their ass...OK I know that is like asking for a miracle but the answer is obvious...

Ask Prez Skittles what his intentions are if the debt ceiling cap is hit?

Has anybody asked him if he plans on adhering to the law and make current on bondholder interest and principle payments?  What he plans beyond that?

Since that has not occured, anything he does can be deflected for propaganda purposes.  It doesn't even matter if a majority of Americans know this is all on Obama, frankly if the people are as impotent as they have been, what really does Obama and his Regime and any Fedcoat have to fear from the civilian quarter?

Right now I see the so-called opposition party being outmaneuvered and about to be crushed.  And I don't see them as being oblivious to this fact, but it is their response to it that is the most troubling...instead of trying to get out in front of things and staying on offense they are lapsing into their typical passive repose that always precedes a complete capitulation.  All these short-term ideas being floated do is buy time, but what it really buys is a hook in the GOP mouth by which the Regime will drag them by forevermore!  Can-kicking keeps ObamaUncare in place and ensures DemonRat goals are fully funded across the board.  The Republic as almost completely gutted...soon it will be gone for good.

[Weisshaupt]

President Shutdown doesn't care much about what happens after the sh*t hits the fan*. I don't believe he has thought beyond blowing up the economy. I think that he believes, since he's president, he can just wing it.

I hope that is true. However, everything so far has been deliberate and calculated. This guys handlers don't "wing it." Fast and Furious Gun Running. Benghazi. NSA Spying. GM Bailouts.  None of these was from incompetence. They were planned and deliberate attacks on the American people and our institutions.   Obama-care is another such attack - a  planned disaster.  I suspect, so is this- and it is still unproven to me if TPTB  are seeking simply chaos and destruction or control. If if I had to place a bet, I would say that these vermin "Just want to  watch the world burn" - or the American bit of it anyway.

I doubt this event runs as far as declaring martial law, as the Oath Keepers suggest. The default is political at this point - NOT mathematical. So political solutions will be sought.  China will demand a piece of us in trade, etc.  The stock market will react somewhat.  The bond markets will recoil somewhat.    I don't see this sort of default causing a Dollar collapse. The Defaults in Europe haven't cause a Euro collapse - largely because some still think there is a political solution (Steal money from the Germans !) We still have the money to pay, Obama will just be playing a little game of hostage with it.

Ultimately, it is probably a tactic to cause a collapse of the banking system, a crisis which requires the govt to take over the entire sector. ( "temporarily of course!")  Now they have control over  your money, and control over your health care. Bail-ins to help the crony bankers may or may not occur. If they do its because the Administration doesn't want people using their savings or IRA funds to prepare- a trend that  I suspect is accelerating though still not large (after all most Americans have no savings)  However, given the petty Park Service closings, and EBT shutdowns, I have to wonder if they aren't testing the waters for a Oath-Keepers style event. But Martial Law will be very, very difficult for the Fed to pull off at any time - so I suspect this event is about obtaining direct control of the banking system, further  impoverishing Americans, and forcing more into  the Govt Dependence "lifestyle" so that they are less likely to resist when the martial law even does occur. 

I hope it doesn't go there yet.. I simply haven't spent everything nor gotten all of the big ticket items we need- I have been trying to slow the bleed a bit by removing money from the IRA a bit at a time instead of all at once. But we might be reaching that "get it now or loose it moment" ...  But I think there is still time. This isn't End Game yet.. just a major step towards it.

It all ultimately hinges on if TPTB are aiming at destruction and chaos or control as the endgame. So far the real hammer blows have fallen on the American people as a whole - perhaps even  favoring the Democratic base more than us, as they are predominately young,  poor, dependent and easily befuddled. They  are  loosing jobs and opportunities, paying higher rates for Health care etc even more so than the average Joe. .  Fast and Furious, Gun Laws, and the IRS targeting were aimed at conservatives to be sure, but seem to be more highly focused  stop gap measures to make sure plans were not interrupted rather than massive scale persecutions. The biggest losers so far have been the lefty rubes.  That isn't to say they aren't getting set up to deal with their enemies (NSA Spying, EO gun orders, etc) - only that they haven't brought out the big efforts yet - Mass Gun Confiscations, Martial Law, Assassinations, decrees to dissolve groups etc.  So far they are  still seeking the veneer of legitimacy  under  the terms of the old republic- Pressing Roberts to rubber stamp Obamacare even though both sides know its obviously unconstitutional. Its always getting worse, but its still getting worse incrementally.  Likewise, I would expect a gun grab etc will come under the guise of taking away guns from those with "mental health problems" , which in real terms means anyone who is conservative.   The Left need the soothing words to hide their deeds from themselves.  That itself will buy us time.

[John Florida]

  He needs a reason to declair marshal law so that the transformation is complete.

[Libertas]

It is obvious that whatever happens it will be as Obama and his Regime want it to happen...the fate of the nation (if there is such a thing remaining!) rests upon their decisions.

Frankly, I've had more than a belly full, if the shat has to hit the fan now, fine, so be it...may God have mercy on my enemies, cause I'll be fresh out!

And Weisshaupt, I know you know better than this - "Ultimately, it is probably a tactic to cause a collapse of the banking system, a crisis which requires the govt to take over the entire sector."!

The Fed/Treasury already own the banks...it is a fascist style ownership with the patina of individual legitimacy in that they have boards of directors etc...and most banks of any material size cross pollinate with Fed/Treas staffing-wise and there is NO voluntary refusal to comply with Fedcoat regulations and regulators...by nationalizing the banking industry the government would be merely throwing the curtain away.

[Weisshaupt]

The Fed/Treasury already own the banks...it is a fascist style ownership with the patina of individual legitimacy in that they have boards of directors etc...and most banks of any material size cross pollinate with Fed/Treas staffing-wise and there is NO voluntary refusal to comply with Fedcoat regulations and regulators...by nationalizing the banking industry the government would be merely throwing the curtain away.

Sorry I meant overt control, not just crony control.  As in , "you will do a bail-in as required by your regulators and then pay a "fine" with that money  to government for our services during this crisis."

There are still small and independent banks out there, and even some large and likely to defy orders ones-- USAA (essentially a  Military co-op)  may be one of them.. When you start to lock things down you don't want anyone gvieing people a safe place to move their money to.. so absolute control will be needed.

[Dan]

My wife is just finishing moving our stuff to USAA at my request (or insistence). It's been a pain for her, but she does see its our best option to protect what little we have to keep in the system to pay certain bills.