Topic: Republicans big Effing deal w/ Dems.

[IronDioPriest]

I'm willing to cede that this is the best that THIS batch of pubbies could get. My beef is with the quality of leadership more than how hard they tried.

[Predator Don]

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/04/09/who-won-shutdown-showdown-it-wasnt-even-close

This is worth a read.

I just read that. I think it sugar coats it a little, but people, we only have the House. THEY have the Presidency and the Senate. We would all have liked MUCH better, but I am afraid that this was the best they could do, for now.


We need to bust our behinds to get more conservatives elected, people!

Quite right , and no , they haven't forgotten 2010 . They also haven't forgotten 1996 when they got the sh*t kicked out of them after the last government shut down that Republicans were blamed for . The $38 Billion wasn't important to the Democrats . That's chicken feed . What they tried to do was lay the same trap for the Republicans that worked in '95 . This time Boehner wasn't biting . We stood to lose everything we gained last year . This little set-to was a tactical draw and nobody came out of it looking good . The big fight is still to come when the battle lines are drawn over the 2012 budget and the Dems try this all over again . Our problem is trying to properly communicate to the the American puiblic what this is all about . We find ourselves at a distinct disadvantage when the only news outlet that gives us an even break and doesn't act as a mouth piece for Stymie and his minions is Fox News .

I understand what your stating but at some point, because we will never enjoy the communication advantage liberals posess, our leadership will need to take a stand and trust a majority of the American people will not buy liberal lies, no matter what outlets spew. If they do not, then 2012's budget battles will be about insignificient amounts and the Rand Pauls will be labeled the extremists.

[Sectionhand]

I'm at a point where I think the American people will buy damned near anything . We'd better get our communication sh*t together or our "one half of one third of the government" can prepare to fall on its sword for a principle !

[Predator Don]

I'm at a point where I think the American people will buy damned near anything . We'd better get our communication sh*t together or our "one half of one third of the government" can prepare to fall on its sword for a principle !

Thus why liberals fight so hard....Without thier pet programs, the people wise up. Maybe its time we find a few willing to fall on the sword....The liberals did.

[charlesoakwood]

It was not a totally lopsided bargain. Dems have some silver linings. There were no votes on defunding the EPA or PBS and NPR. Democrats fought for and won a $2 billion cut from the Department of Defense, knocking the military appropriation for the rest of the year down to $513 billion.

But the GOP had to be able to see this as a win in the end

"Past is prelude".  That's why, "GOP had to be able to see this as a win", because they want you to feel like it is a win.  It's not a win, Boehner & Cantor will undermine Ryan.

didn't I say this a while ago?

[Sectionhand]

I'm at a point where I think the American people will buy damned near anything . We'd better get our communication sh*t together or our "one half of one third of the government" can prepare to fall on its sword for a principle !

Thus why liberals fight so hard....Without thier pet programs, the people wise up. Maybe its time we find a few willing to fall on the sword....The liberals did.

And all you wind up with is a lot of blood on the floor and the same old sh*t in the budget .

[Sectionhand]

It was not a totally lopsided bargain. Dems have some silver linings. There were no votes on defunding the EPA or PBS and NPR. Democrats fought for and won a $2 billion cut from the Department of Defense, knocking the military appropriation for the rest of the year down to $513 billion.

But the GOP had to be able to see this as a win in the end

"Past is prelude".  That's why, "GOP had to be able to see this as a win", because they want you to feel like it is a win.  It's not a win, Boehner & Cantor will undermine Ryan.

didn't I say this a while ago?


Yeah . And I'm still not buyin' it .

[charlesoakwood]

You think it's a win?

[rickl]

Karl Denninger doesn't think so.

2011 04 09 Government Budget Fraud

[charlesoakwood]

 
Yeah, that's the technical; and in a simple observation, no one is

           
everyone is,

           explaining why or how it's a win.  When the baseball game is over one knows who the winner is. Lucy don't have to be told who won the game.  They haven't been celebrating all day and the Demonrats haven't tried to explain a thing.

[Janny]

Look, for all conservatives who are upset about the deal.

Yes, it was a crap sandwich.

But all this diner serves is crap sandwiches and you knew that when we came in.

We got the best crap sandwich we were going to get.

You think if Boehner had let the government shut down that in 2 or 3 weeks he would’ve been able to get more? You’re f***ing dreaming. No matter the short term results, the long term results would have been the public being upset with the GOP. You could see that in Wisconsin recently, as over time, the polls started to shift away from Walker.

We can win short battles where we can stick it to the Dems. We don’t win long drawn out ones. We won’t until alternative media is a bigger force. We’re almost there, but we ain’t there yet.

Yesterday, Boehner was negotiating from a position of strength. However, he was still negotiating against people who either a) don’t think we have a financial crisis looming, or b) don’t care. That puts a theoretical max on what he can get. And it ain’t high. He probably got just about the best he could get out of it. The PP defunding votes and ObamaCare defunding votes will help GOP next November. As will how he handled this. A shutdown would’ve hurt GOP in November, and we’d lose what we gained in ’10. And after a shutdown of any kind of length, he would’ve been negotiating from a position of weakness.

The only way we’re going to win this war is by fighting it one battle at a time, and pushing for each little small concession we can get. And then doing it again. And again. And again. And again.

Until that clown is out of the White House, and that clown from Nevada relinquishes his Leadership. Then we can go for the big wins. Right now, we have to fight and fight and fight for every penny. And not be pissed when we only got a nickel.

Boehner is doing that. But he has two goals. Remember that. His goal is to get what he can from Obama, but also to make the Dems look foolish and the GOP look better, so that he can keep this fight going in 2012 and 2013 and beyond.

If he makes everyone pissed off at the GOP and they give up and elect the Dems again in 2012, it’s over.

Goddammit people, I know you’re complaining that people aren’t looking at the big picture, but you also have to face facts and reality and look at the long term picture. As much as I might like it and you might like it, we’re not winning this war in 2011, or even in early 2012. We win small battles wherever we can in 2011 and 2012. Then we win the big battles in November 2012 and 2013.

That’s the only way it’s going to happen. We’re on the Titanic and we’ve seen the iceberg. But the Titanic doesn’t turn on a dime. Particularly not with a blind man at the wheel.

Chris of Rights on April 9, 2011 at 3:56 PM

A comment from HotAir. I could have made it myself. This is, in my opinion, a reality based approach to this. We have to rein in this huge spending piecemeal, and look toward the long term.

[IronDioPriest]

I'm willing to go at least part way and say that I understand political realities. I think Boehner's leadership is lacking, and a stronger leader could've played a stronger hand. But I think Boehner did the best that Boehner could do. I imagine the pressure on the man is immense, but it DOES come with the territory.

We'll see how sharp the teeth are in the "audits of Obama administration policies" and whether the promised votes in the senate on ObamaCare funding and Planned Parenthood funding actually take place. I like the defunding of Obama's added IRS agents and the defunding of abortions in DC.

I also like that it was the GOP who restored school choice in Washington DC after Obama and the Democrats scrapped it as a gesture to their union cronies. This mostly is a symbolic victory (except for the poor urban families who will again benefit from school choice after having it summarily ripped away by Obama), but it is good symbolism, throwing a stick of dynamite into the notion that Democrats are for the urban poor and that Republicans want to kill children.

What I'm really looking for now is how the GOP leadership treats Budget Committee Chair Paul Ryan. I think he has the ability to sell some bitter medicine to the American people. But he won't be able to do it if he's getting undercut by his own party. He can handle opposition from Scott Brown and Olympia Snowe. What I don't think he could overcome is opposition from Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, or Eric Cantor. Those guys need to fall in line, or a historic opportunity to try one last ditch effort to save our nation for posterity will be squandered.

[Janny]

Yes, I concur that Boehner could be a better leader.

I also concur that Ryan is going to be a key player, and what happens within his own party will determine how successful he will be at giving Americans a dose of reality.

Time will tell. The fight for 2012 is going to be brutal, both budget-wise and election-wise. We need to win big in both battles!

[Sectionhand]

You think it's a win?

I think it was a draw . The fact that Republicans didn't get drawn into being blamed for a shutdown ( which is what would have happened ) means the Dems were foiled in their intent . They'll try again though in a few months .

[IronDioPriest]

You think it's a win?

I think it was a draw . The fact that Republicans didn't get drawn into being blamed for a shutdown ( which is what would have happened ) means the Dems were foiled in their intent . They'll try again though in a few months .

I do think Boehener's gamesmanship in dealing with the looming shutdown was pretty good. I think sectionhand is right at least in the fact that every effort would have been made by the media and the Democrats (I repeat myself) to replay this as 1995, and I think that the tactic could have at least been somewhat successful. Boehner didn't want to find out, and I don't blame him.

In my opinion, the worst thing he (and Cantor and probably McConnell) did was beginning the negotiations too close to the enemy's final offer. They seriously should have begun with Rand Paul's $500 Billion in cuts and worked back from there. It would have done several things - the first and possibly the most important thing it would have done is demonstrate to the American people how huge the gulf is between the responsible thing to do and where the Democrats are at. It would have set up a classic fight with stark differences between the parties, and it would have given the GOP $400 Billion cushion to move away from their start position and look like they were willing to compromise. They could have moved down in tens-of-billion dollar increments to the $100 B mark, given the Tea Party everything it asked for from the negotiations, and it would have set the tone for the debate moving forward into 2012.

They can tell us all day long that Obama wanted zero cuts, Boehner wanted the Tea Party's pro-rated cuts of $61 B, and that in the end we got almost $40 B. They can tell us that it's a win because we're talking about how much to cut, so we've won the argument that cuts need to take place. But because John Boehner and Eric Cantor began the negotiations by signaling that the demands of the Tea Party were not to be taken seriously and that shutdown was essentially off the table, we're looking past what they try tell us is a good thing (and may well be) to the disappointment beyond. I think that's completely reasonable, and I won't entertain being shamed into saying it's unreasonable to be disappointed.

[rickl]

I do think Boehener's gamesmanship in dealing with the looming shutdown was pretty good. I think sectionhand is right at least in the fact that every effort would have been made by the media and the Democrats (I repeat myself) to replay this as 1995, and I think that the tactic could have at least been somewhat successful. Boehner didn't want to find out, and I don't blame him.

In my opinion, the worst thing he (and Cantor and probably McConnell) did was beginning the negotiations too close to the enemy's final offer. They seriously should have begun with Rand Paul's $500 Billion in cuts and worked back from there. It would have done several things - the first and possibly the most important thing it would have done is demonstrate to the American people how huge the gulf is between the responsible thing to do and where the Democrats are at. It would have set up a classic fight with stark differences between the parties, and it would have given the GOP $400 Billion cushion to move away from their start position and look like they were willing to compromise. They could have moved down in tens-of-billion dollar increments to the $100 B mark, given the Tea Party everything it asked for from the negotiations, and it would have set the tone for the debate moving forward into 2012.

They can tell us all day long that Obama wanted zero cuts, Boehner wanted the Tea Party's pro-rated cuts of $61 B, and that in the end we got almost $40 B. They can tell us that it's a win because we're talking about how much to cut, so we've won the argument that cuts need to take place. But because John Boehner and Eric Cantor began the negotiations by signaling that the demands of the Tea Party were not to be taken seriously and that shutdown was essentially off the table, we're looking past what they try tell us is a good thing (and may well be) to the disappointment beyond. I think that's completely reasonable, and I won't entertain being shamed into saying it's unreasonable to be disappointed.

I can't find anything to disagree with there.  Why hasn't Fox hired you as an analyst?

[John Florida]

[rickl]

Off topic:
I don't remember whether I actually saw this or just imagined it:  A Far Side cartoon showing a guy in bed, who has one eye open looking at his alarm clock, which reads five minutes before seven.  The caption says, "The Clock of Damocles."

[Libertas]

This is one tiny little spec of crap on a gigantic pile of manure!  The real test is yet to come...the debt limit.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the Repub's fresh with the exhilaration of victory will get another bill they hail as victory, that others hail as the best crap sandwich they could get, that leftists claim is extreme and that Obama claims as his own...all all we'll get his a higher debt ceiling!

Giving an insane gambler more money to blow is not going to fix things!

Our leaders should be rallying around the only sane plan offered thus far, the Ryan plan, and fight for it to the death.

But that won't happen.  Not with this bunch of feckless fools!

 

[Libertas]

FYI -

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/04/08/satisfied-federal-budget-deal/#