Author Topic: BITCOIN  (Read 7255 times)

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Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2013, 08:04:00 AM »
Will a virtual currency cause a virtual depression? Will there be virtual theft of folk's funds?
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2013, 10:06:59 AM »
Will a virtual currency cause a virtual depression? Will there be virtual theft of folk's funds?

We already use a Virtual Currency. Dollars mostly exist as 1s and 0s Right now.   When the Fed "prints" it really justs adds a couple of 0s  to the end of its available balance and then transfers them electronically somewhere else.  Go into a bank and try to take $1000 to $2000 out in cash, and get the dirty looks. Take out more than $5000 and they will probably try to stall you- because they haven't been able to physically print as much cashy money as they need  to cover the size of the money supply.

And yes, virtual theft of assets happens every day.

Bitcoin  doesn't have a cash form-  and must be moved into a currency that does in order to "remove it"- but as more vendors accept bitcoin, the less need you would have for "cash"

The fed probably likes the idea just because it is cashless. If they can take over and/or compromise bitcoin somehow, then they are set to run this scam all over again using that currency instead of the dollar



Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2013, 03:02:24 PM »
I still do not trust it, and I certainly don't trust the CIC (Communist in Control).
U.S. Coast Guard veteran, 1964-1968

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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2013, 07:01:43 PM »
I still do not trust it, and I certainly don't trust the CIC (Communist in Control).

Money IS trust.  It is trust that makes you believe that if you accept it in return for  the value of your time, your labor, your production that you will be able to exchange it later for the equivalent value from someone else.  It can be anything. Shells, shiny rocks, beads, ammo, paper, or ones and zeros.
 The Dollar is no more "real money"  than Bit coin, than Yuan , or even Gold and silver.  It all comes down to what you trust others to accept in the future.

Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 07:28:28 AM »
I still do not trust it, and I certainly don't trust the CIC (Communist in Control).

Money IS trust.  It is trust that makes you believe that if you accept it in return for  the value of your time, your labor, your production that you will be able to exchange it later for the equivalent value from someone else.  It can be anything. Shells, shiny rocks, beads, ammo, paper, or ones and zeros.
 The Dollar is no more "real money"  than Bit coin, than Yuan , or even Gold and silver.  It all comes down to what you trust others to accept in the future.

Let's say that again!  MONEY IS TRUST!  Amen, brother!  And the puppetmasters at Fed/Treas are conducting Kabuki theater and once the inescapable realization is reached that fiat paper isn't worth spit that trust will shatter!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2013, 08:46:03 AM »
We have enough stuff to barter for a long time. I actually anticipate that the lib communists will collapse our finances.
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I hate liberals. Liberalism is a disease that causes severe brain damage after it tries to suck knowledge and history out of yours.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2013, 10:12:35 AM »
We have enough stuff to barter for a long time. I actually anticipate that the lib communists will collapse our finances.

Cloward-Piven! :  Its been the plan for 50+ years.
The Key question is when.  We certainly don't have 10 years.  Probably under 5. Quite probably  under 2.
Hey, I will take as many years as they give me at the Fiat Gravy train

Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2013, 07:26:06 AM »
OK, methinks the Limey's are trying too hard to co-opt bitcoin!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-01/uk-royal-mint-working-plans-issue-gold-backed-physical-bitcoins

Fiatizing digital currency seems a bit stupid, just my two bits...and besides, what would stop China for instance (whose been stacking physical gold faster than anybody!) announcing the Yuan is going on the gold standard?  UK's efforts would fizzle.
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Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2013, 10:16:19 AM »
Ann Barnhardt isn't a fan of Bitcoin.

 
Ann Barnhardt Podcast December 3, ARSH 2013

She claims each bitcoin is authenticated by going back and tracing the history of transactions, so she sees it as a security risk and  the NSA's dream currency.  I am not sure those "histories" are linkable with an individual-- I thought they were linked to which server the coin currently "resided" on .. so You could authenticate the creation of a coin to a certain server that "mined" it.

She of course points out that there is currently  no rule of law and no expectation of moral behavior from other citizens or entities with power  and therefore  if you can't "roll around in it naked while holding an AR-15" it isn't yours.  IN all she regards it as a Tulip Bubble and the currency is already be subject to manipulation by Soros or Soros wannabes - Just as Gold has been manipulated.  Plus its vulnerable to EMP pulse, but really, the dollar is too - there is nowhere near enough cash to cover it.  If someone running a bitcoin server started mining bitcoin and then printing some form of note or cash based on those bitcoins held in deposit, you would  have something akin to the Dollar.


I think in a moral, stable world Bitcoin is a far better system than letting an organization like the Fed exist. But as Ann points out.. we don't live in that world.







Offline radioman

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2013, 10:22:37 AM »
I don't know how anyone could possibly feel secure in Bitcoins. Ann is right! Look, our cash in banks is subject to 0s and 1s too and can disappear in a flash.

She's right, unless you have something material and physical in your hands, you're beholden to other people for the security of your savings.

Liberals are now looking to steal your 401s, you betta move 'em out while you still have something.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2013, 11:21:46 AM »
"if you can't 'roll around in it naked while holding an AR-15' it isn't yours"

Precious metals bath!   ::whoohoo::

"But as Ann points out.. we don't live in that world."

Aye.

"Liberals are now looking to steal your 401s, you betta move 'em out while you still have something."

Yup!



We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2013, 06:52:15 AM »
FINCEN (Treasury goons with guns...just what we need, more Fedcoats with guns!) targets maker of physical bitcoins...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-12/producer-physical-casascius-bitcoins-being-targeted-feds

...they don't even pretend to counterfeit government legal tender, but the Fedcoats cannot stand any fiat replacement outside of their direct and express control!

Makes me want to get more than a few just for spite!!!
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline oldcoastie6468

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2013, 09:36:18 AM »
Quote
{snip}

Bitcoin is just a massive public ledger

At heart, bitcoin is simply a huge public ledger, recording who gave what to whom and when: a long list of transactions (27 million at last count), replicated across a network of thousands of computers.

To work out how much bitcoin money you have, you just look down the list of your transactions and add them up.

To give someone bitcoin money, you send a ‘transfer please’ message to the network, which copies the request around the computers and checks all is in order. It is put in a block of transactions, which are added to the ledger (the ‘block chain’). That, in essence, is bitcoin.

This of course raises some questions. What’s to stop a computer in the network just adding whatever it likes to the block chain? The answer is that the block of transactions has to be agreed among the majority of the computers in the network. So any rogue computer is just ignored by the rest.

This in turn begs the question of how bitcoins are created in the first place – if the block chain records the spending, where do they originally come from? Well, bitcoins come from the operation of the network itself: before you gain the right to add a block, you need to solve a time-consuming complex mathematical puzzle. The puzzle is designed to be hard to solve, but easy to check – like a really fiendish sudoku.

The first computer to solve the puzzle tells the network and wins the ownership of 25 new bitcoins – and also takes ownership of the fees (if any) attached to the transactions in the block.

How bitcoin mining works

This process of solving the puzzle and adding new bitcoins to the ledger is called ‘mining’. The miners are competing with each other to be the first to find the solution to each puzzle. The puzzle is also designed to get ever more fiendish as the network gets faster, so that it always takes about ten minutes for the network to solve.

Unsurprisingly, an arms race has developed between miners, who have to use ever-faster computers just to stay in the game (the total computing power of the bitcoin network doubled in just the last month). The race has gone so far that mining now requires computers built from specially-designed bitcoin chips.

Mining is a zero-sum game, and will eventually become an activity finely balanced between the costs of electricity used for mining and the value of bitcoins produced (very similar to gold mining, where the costs are largely dictated by the price of fuel for the equipment used).

This is already happening: it’s now just a myth that an ordinary PC can be used for mining, because it runs so slowly that it costs a hundred times more in electricity than it could be expected to yield in bitcoins. As a result, the solo PC miners are dropping out.

The key point about the mining process is that it’s the miners competing to get new bitcoins and transaction fees that actually operate the bitcoin network. In effect, the self-interest of the miners in prospecting for bitcoins is being exploited to provide the underlying public service. Adam Smith would be proud.

http://moneyweek.com/bitcoin/
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I hate liberals. Liberalism is a disease that causes severe brain damage after it tries to suck knowledge and history out of yours.

Offline Libertas

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2013, 12:51:36 PM »
Invisible hand is nice, especially if it has some mass.
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline IronDioPriest

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BITCOIN has crashed and burned: Total loss
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2014, 11:47:42 AM »
I don't really understand Bitcoin, but apparently it just crashed and burned, and everyone who invested in it has now lost every penny.

Bitcoin Just Completely Crashed! All Withdrawals Halted!

In these just released videos from Dahboo7 and Blaine Cooper and story from Business Insider we learn that Bitcoin has just completely crashed and there is a massive sell-off in progress. With Bitcoin now going down the tubes, what’s next? Is this just another symptom of the global financial collapse that should be telling us that the ‘endgame’ is getting much closer?

Bitcoin just completely fell out of bed. The chart [at link], via BitcoinWisdom, shows the move...
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Offline Glock32

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2014, 11:55:38 AM »
"The Fourth Estate is less honorable than the First Profession."

- Yours Truly

Offline IronDioPriest

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2014, 12:16:01 PM »
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

- Thomas Jefferson

Offline trapeze

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2014, 12:47:17 PM »
Investing in a "virtual" currency seems to me to be as bad or worse than investing in fiat currencies. They are all, essentially, faith based except that your faith must be in fallible human beings behaving "correctly" in order for your investment to appreciate (at best).

Since we live in a time where cities (Detroit and others) and countries (Argentina, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Greece, Portugal, etc.) are literally failing, perhaps today's best investments* will ultimately turn out to be ammunition and long term (storable) food. Gold, silver? Well, yes except that you can't do anything with them unless there is someone willing to take them from you (at an rate that is agreeable) in exchange for something you need. Right now I am able to count on my skills and knowledge in a barter economy if the need for one ever arises. Later, as I get older, I will have to rely more on other things and that is where food and ammo come in. And at some point I suppose that I will start to put some gold and silver aside. If they are at a good price.

But currencies? Virtual currencies? Fiat currencies? Seems like a great way to get very wealthy or very broke. I just don't need the stress. At least with a share of stock you actually are a part owner of a company/corporation that has (or should have) tangible assets. And (hopefully) profits. And real growth. But I'm not invested in stocks either these days. If I was going to invest in something traditional, though, it would be in a stock. Probably a blue chip stock at this point in my life. For right now, no.

*Also in the planning stages of building an alcohol still because, why not?
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Offline trapeze

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2014, 12:52:40 PM »
More here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-10/bitcoin-flash-crashes-drops-80-seconds

That report doesn't sound as absolutely dire as the one I posted.

No, but it should serve as a warning shot across the bow for the prudent. Of course, the prudent won't be invested with any money they cannot afford to lose.
In a doomsday scenario, hippies will be among the first casualties. So not everything about doomsday will be bad.

Offline Weisshaupt

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Re: BITCOIN
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2014, 12:56:19 PM »
Investing in a "virtual" currency seems to me to be as bad or worse than investing in fiat currencies. They are all, essentially, faith based except that your faith must be in fallible human beings behaving "correctly" in order for your investment to appreciate (at best).

Bitcoin may ( or may not be) a fine investment as a means of exchange.. but its traded on corrupt markets and will therefore be subject to the same HFT and other manipulation as any other asset traded on those markets.  TPTB may have decided bitcoin was getting to big for its britches and decided to force a dump - just as the force a dump in silver and Gold every morning when the american exchange opens.
 
Quote
And at some point I suppose that I will start to put some gold and silver aside. If they are at a good price.


I think what you are seeing now is as good a price as you will get in your lifetime. Silver is not going to return to $3 and Gold is not going to return to $200  because of the $ sign  in front.   In the end you will probably be able to purchase $3 and $200 worth  of goods with them ( in pricing relative to that era)  but if you plan on buying them with Fiat, the artificial suppression of the price going on right now is your best chance.