Topic: To Be or Not to..uhm

[Pablo de Fleurs]

Bob Newhart discusses atheism of the gaps.
#MakeStuffUp

An Infinite Number Of Monkeys - Bob Newhart

[Libertas]

...infinite number of monkeys and an infinite number of typewriters...and an infinite amount of time...

 

 

[ChrstnHsbndFthr]

Yeah, but that theory was popular BEFORE the Obama teleprompter. So what did they upgrade the theory to now?

[Pablo de Fleurs]

Yeah, but that theory was popular BEFORE the Obama teleprompter. So what did they upgrade the theory to now?

The "throw more time at it" argument will probably always be around as a gap-filler. The unofficial theory is that with enough time ANYTHING is possible. Or they say "Well, we're here & that proves we evolved" OR "that proves Big Bang".

Sometimes it's camouflaged in seemingly scientific language: “A replicator arose because a molecule capable of replicating arose.”

“Arose”? Well, arose from where? (time+slime+chance is the default answer).

Always, still, monkeys @ typewriters.

Banana, anyone?

[Libertas]

"time+slime+chance"

 

Sounds like a recipe for hopium!

 

[KittenClaws]

Is infinity the measure of time or possibility? Weird that I don't know that.

I'm only posting to this because it made me think of "eternity" and a definition I was once told.  I can not remember who wrote it and this is not verbatim, just how I remember it:

Somewhere in the middle of a vast ocean there sits an island. On the island there is a boulder that is one thousand miles wide and one thousand miles high.

Every thousand years a small bird arrives and sharpens his beak upon the boulder.

When the boulder is thus worn down, a single day of eternity has passed.

[Libertas]

Nice saying, has a kind of Zen-ness to it.

And I think infinity (a mathematical term) is a scientists way of expressing eternity.

[oldcoastie6468]

Is infinity the measure of time or possibility?

Infinity can also be used as a distance.

[Libertas]

Is infinity the measure of time or possibility?

Infinity can also be used as a distance.

As in "the eGOP can hope to infinity that conservatives and libertarians will stick with them if they continue to become democrats, but it won't match reality"?

[oldcoastie6468]

Is infinity the measure of time or possibility?

Infinity can also be used as a distance.

As in "the eGOP can hope to infinity that conservatives and libertarians will stick with them if they continue to become democrats, but it won't match reality"?

I think that sums it up quite well.

[KittenClaws]

Nice saying, has a kind of Zen-ness to it.

And I think infinity (a mathematical term) is a scientists way of expressing eternity.

But infinity is measureable, if one has the time, intelligence and resources to measure it, right? 

Which implies that Infinity is sciences way of saying "sure we can measure space, but who has the time or resources to do it?" or "there are infinite possibilities, but who has the intelligence to think of them all?"

Don't get me wrong, I love science. Particularly theoretical physics. I can't understand the mathematics no matter how hard I try, but I can understand the theory that the math tests.

But eternity? It can not be measured, because time does not exist within eternity. Indeed, time does not really exist at all.  Quantum physics does an acceptable job of explaining our perception of time, but is perception reality?

[Septugenarian]

In politics, yes.  Otherwise, no.

[Libertas]

Nice saying, has a kind of Zen-ness to it.

And I think infinity (a mathematical term) is a scientists way of expressing eternity.

But infinity is measureable, if one has the time, intelligence and resources to measure it, right? 

Which implies that Infinity is sciences way of saying "sure we can measure space, but who has the time or resources to do it?" or "there are infinite possibilities, but who has the intelligence to think of them all?"

Don't get me wrong, I love science. Particularly theoretical physics. I can't understand the mathematics no matter how hard I try, but I can understand the theory that the math tests.

But eternity? It can not be measured, because time does not exist within eternity. Indeed, time does not really exist at all.  Quantum physics does an acceptable job of explaining our perception of time, but is perception reality?

Yes, the mathematics of theoretical physics is beyond my understand too but the concepts can be understood if one looks at them as Einstein looked at simple observations he made, his "thought experiements", like where he describes the "twin paradox" describing time dilation.  If I focus on visulizing the concept I don't necessarily have to know the complex mathematics behind it, others have done the latter and prove it correct, I get to enjoy the idea.

Having the appearance of measurability (and the operative utilitity in mathematics) is why science sticks with infinity and leaves eternity to theologians and believers.

To that I can add -

"Given for one instant an intelligence which could comprehend all the forces by which nature is animated and the respective positions of the beings which compose it, if moreover this intelligence were vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in the same formula both the movements of the largest bodies in the universe and those of the lightest atom; to it nothing would be uncertain, and the future as the past would be present to its eyes." - Pierre Simon De Laplace

Interesting to debate if the father of modern probability and noted skeptic was describing God or hoping for the chance to be that intelligence, eh?

[KittenClaws]

Nice saying, has a kind of Zen-ness to it.

And I think infinity (a mathematical term) is a scientists way of expressing eternity.

But infinity is measureable, if one has the time, intelligence and resources to measure it, right? 

Which implies that Infinity is sciences way of saying "sure we can measure space, but who has the time or resources to do it?" or "there are infinite possibilities, but who has the intelligence to think of them all?"

Don't get me wrong, I love science. Particularly theoretical physics. I can't understand the mathematics no matter how hard I try, but I can understand the theory that the math tests.

But eternity? It can not be measured, because time does not exist within eternity. Indeed, time does not really exist at all.  Quantum physics does an acceptable job of explaining our perception of time, but is perception reality?

Yes, the mathematics of theoretical physics is beyond my understand too but the concepts can be understood if one looks at them as Einstein looked at simple observations he made, his "thought experiements", like where he describes the "twin paradox" describing time dilation.  If I focus on visulizing the concept I don't necessarily have to know the complex mathematics behind it, others have done the latter and prove it correct, I get to enjoy the idea.

Having the appearance of measurability (and the operative utilitity in mathematics) is why science sticks with infinity and leaves eternity to theologians and believers.

To that I can add -

"Given for one instant an intelligence which could comprehend all the forces by which nature is animated and the respective positions of the beings which compose it, if moreover this intelligence were vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in the same formula both the movements of the largest bodies in the universe and those of the lightest atom; to it nothing would be uncertain, and the future as the past would be present to its eyes." - Pierre Simon De Laplace

Interesting to debate if the father of modern probability and noted skeptic was describing God or hoping for the chance to be that intelligence, eh?

Fascinating, actually. The men ( and women, I suppose) who have such great minds are often as interesting as the theories they present.

If I remember correctly, Einstein sought to prove the existence of God through science. Simplistic retelling of course.

Stupid television show aside, if we were to look at quantum theory - string theory. We could see how all possibilities do exist, must exist for free will to work.  If our decisions affect others, and others affect our own, yet God makes all things work for His glory. (I know I misquote scripture, but I'm posting off the cuff), then there must be a "world" where the correct actions for the individual takes place.

Damn. There is no way I can explain what I mean. It is just too big for me to comprehend and communicate with my level of knowledge on the subject. The concept is just too abstract.

But I've taken so long to type this out, I'm posting it dag nabbit!


 

[Pablo de Fleurs]

...We could see how all possibilities do exist, must exist for free will to work.  If our decisions affect others, and others affect our own, yet God makes all things work for His glory. (I know I misquote scripture, but I'm posting off the cuff), then there must be a "world" where the correct actions for the individual takes place.

From a live stream, earlier tis evening; Ravi Zacharias from John Hopkins University:
#Freedom makes #love possible, which in turn makes #pain possible, then a #Savior possible, then #redemption & then #restoration possible. #FreeWill

We would not want to be automatons - but if not, must embrace the good & bad that come with free will.

[KittenClaws]

...We could see how all possibilities do exist, must exist for free will to work.  If our decisions affect others, and others affect our own, yet God makes all things work for His glory. (I know I misquote scripture, but I'm posting off the cuff), then there must be a "world" where the correct actions for the individual takes place.

From a live stream, earlier tis evening; Ravi Zacharias from John Hopkins University:
#Freedom makes #love possible, which in turn makes #pain possible, then a #Savior possible, then #redemption & then #restoration possible. #FreeWill

We would not want to be automatons - but if not, must embrace the good & bad that come with free will.

I am moved (by God) to give a waitress a $20 tip, but a thief steals it before she arrives at the table. Another person  has usurped my actions and the waitresses children do not get milk.

But, the thief is a father whose children are also hungry and he has stolen on their behalf. He regrets his actions, but the deed is done, his children are fed. He embarks on a life of giving thereafter.

Or he is just a thief who bought drugs with the $20.

The waitress, who trusts God, still receives just enough money to buy her kids milk, which they drink in the dark because their electricity has been shut off. She praises God that her children have been fed, lights an emergency candle and plays Yahtzee with the kids...they remember this night fondly well into their 80th year on earth.

There are infinite possibilities within this scenario. If all things work to the glory of God, then it is not a question of being an automaton, but a question that can never be understood. What is Gods will? And when His will is not followed..because it is not always followed, how is His will achieved?

What if I had not followed His will and not left the $20?

It may not have affected the waitress, but it surely would have affected the thief.

[Pandora]

See, that's the thing.  He works His Will on us all; if we listen, we do as He asks and it is His outcome, unknowable to us, that comes to fruition.

Who knows, right?  He does.

[Libertas]

Yes, keep it simple, avoid the rabbit hole/house of mirrors...avoid the chaos...be yourself and have faith.