Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 14762 times)

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Online Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #260 on: January 15, 2018, 10:25:05 AM »
It is ironic...Russophiles at ZH like to talk about how the DeepState in the US is aching for war and wanting to start sh*t with innocent Mother Russia...but then why is innocent Mother Russia feeding the war-monger-mania?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-14/who-do-russians-consider-their-greatest-enemies

Wouldn't the smart play be to downplay your antagonism and not offer red meat to the statists in America?

I guess not.  See?  There are no "innocents", the lust of elitists everywhere is for the same thing and for the same reasons...hard not to see this not ending on the really bad end of the scale, isn't it?
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Offline Syzygy

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #261 on: January 15, 2018, 03:38:27 PM »
It is ironic...Russophiles at ZH like to talk about how the DeepState in the US is aching for war and wanting to start sh*t with innocent Mother Russia...but then why is innocent Mother Russia feeding the war-monger-mania?

...

Good question. 

And a lot of the "agitprop" that feeds the war-mongering-mania comes from the Russian sponsored news media, i.e. RT and Sputnik.

I don't recall these being around pre-Putin.  And I don't think 68% of the Russian people thought America was their biggest threat pre-Putin,  either,  with Ukraine coming in second at almost 30%. 

I think the answer to your question will have to include SOMETHING about Putin--a BIG something.  My 2 cents,  anyway.

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #262 on: January 15, 2018, 05:06:37 PM »

How many times has the US MSM bashed Russia in the past year?  10,000 times maybe?
The US moved NATO forces to the Russian border after the Russians pulled back.
The US funneled $5 billion to subvert Ukraine.
US influenced a previous Russian election.
The US outspends Russia 10 to 1 on military.

We think of ourselves as the good guys but Russians have a right to their view of that, with our tanks on their border.  The US has accused Russia of economic warfare for building gas pipelines. I believe the US Senate has gone on the record about that as I recall.

Russia has been much better about causing trouble for the US in Latin America and Cuba.
What does it get them?
We gave Ukraine sniper systems. Why shouldn't Russia give such systems to MX narco gangs?

We should pull out of NATO. I don't care about Russia vs Ukraine.

When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #263 on: January 15, 2018, 06:24:40 PM »
It is ironic...Russophiles at ZH like to talk about how the DeepState in the US is aching for war and wanting to start sh*t with innocent Mother Russia...but then why is innocent Mother Russia feeding the war-monger-mania?

...

Good question. 

And a lot of the "agitprop" that feeds the war-mongering-mania comes from the Russian sponsored news media, i.e. RT and Sputnik.

I don't recall these being around pre-Putin.  And I don't think 68% of the Russian people thought America was their biggest threat pre-Putin,  either,  with Ukraine coming in second at almost 30%. 

I think the answer to your question will have to include SOMETHING about Putin--a BIG something.  My 2 cents,  anyway.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

It helps him with the masses, the strong man there to protect them from evil like nobody else can.  It also helps fund the Russian MIC/Oligarchy/Syndicates which he cannot cut loose to the wind of chance.

It shows the masses there can be just as stupendously moronic as those here or just about anywhere...and shows what a bunch of Putin gravy gulping idiots troll ZeroHedge!
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Online Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #264 on: January 15, 2018, 06:36:56 PM »

How many times has the US MSM bashed Russia in the past year?  10,000 times maybe?
The US moved NATO forces to the Russian border after the Russians pulled back.
The US funneled $5 billion to subvert Ukraine.
US influenced a previous Russian election.
The US outspends Russia 10 to 1 on military.

We think of ourselves as the good guys but Russians have a right to their view of that, with our tanks on their border.  The US has accused Russia of economic warfare for building gas pipelines. I believe the US Senate has gone on the record about that as I recall.

Russia has been much better about causing trouble for the US in Latin America and Cuba.
What does it get them?
We gave Ukraine sniper systems. Why shouldn't Russia give such systems to MX narco gangs?

We should pull out of NATO. I don't care about Russia vs Ukraine.

The Russia-Ukraine thing does piss me off, it's well documented, read this thread from the start.  The original impetus was twofold - 1) Outdated (See Soviet) Russian ego that all former satellites are their natural vassals and 2) kind of related to number one, the belief that they can dominate the region as sole-source energy provider (which after all is just another term for hydraulic despotism - control/fear/extort!).  Then they started lying about Ukrainians being the aggressors, lied about blowing the airliner out of the sky when nobody but them could have pulled it off...all on the heels of outright stealing Crimea.  On these factors alone they are thugs unable to cope with their low self esteem issues.  By using Russian logic there is not a damn thing that should stop us from seizing Cuba and the parts of Canada and Mexico we desire!

On the EU/NATO front they have more to legitimately bitch about IMO.  NATO is no longer needed, the candy-ass Euro-Socialists can pay for their own defense and should have been charged with doing so the moment the Soviet Union collapsed.  Screw those losers, never get one damn bit a thanks from them for bailing their ass out of two world wars and keeping the Russian Bear at bay for another 46 years!

I have also stated more than once, we should be allies in combating the Islamo-Fascist threat, but that can only go so far, since the Russians make a ton of money selling tech to batshyt crazies like Syria, Iran and North Korea.  In Syria we should be the hell out of there too, let Russians take that cesspool, getting out of NATO would finally cut us loose from Erdogan's batshyt crazy Turks too!
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Offline Syzygy

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #265 on: January 15, 2018, 09:41:23 PM »
...
On the EU/NATO front they have more to legitimately bitch about IMO.  NATO is no longer needed, the candy-ass Euro-Socialists can pay for their own defense and should have been charged with doing so the moment the Soviet Union collapsed. 
...

When the Soviet Union collapsed,  it being the reason for a NATO in the first place--a 3 Musketeers,  all for one and one for all defense against Soviet invasion--NATO's raison d'etre collapsed with it.  Instead of disbanding or at least downsizing,  they went on a membership drive,   thus proving once again a Reagan truism:  the closest thing to eternal life here on Earth is a government program.

I think that with the modern day Asian threats--China and NK--a new and improved SEATO treaty would make more sense today,  economically (cheaper) AND strategically.   But when was the last time our government did anything that made good sense? 


Online Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #266 on: January 16, 2018, 07:55:31 AM »
...
On the EU/NATO front they have more to legitimately bitch about IMO.  NATO is no longer needed, the candy-ass Euro-Socialists can pay for their own defense and should have been charged with doing so the moment the Soviet Union collapsed. 
...

When the Soviet Union collapsed,  it being the reason for a NATO in the first place--a 3 Musketeers,  all for one and one for all defense against Soviet invasion--NATO's raison d'etre collapsed with it.  Instead of disbanding or at least downsizing,  they went on a membership drive,   thus proving once again a Reagan truism:  the closest thing to eternal life here on Earth is a government program.

I think that with the modern day Asian threats--China and NK--a new and improved SEATO treaty would make more sense today,  economically (cheaper) AND strategically.   But when was the last time our government did anything that made good sense?

I agree.  The Pacific Rim is where we should be focused, let the Europeans worry about Europe.  Oh, and on record numerous times saying we should have wooed India not Pakistan...would have been better that way...and it would have thrown a wrench in the String of Pearls and BRICS!

Pan started this thread - http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,3910.180.html

We have had lively discussions on it, primarily centered on the Chi-Com "String of Pearls" network.

Other threads related to the String of Pearls and related area interest include:

BRICS -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,991.msg10575.html#msg10575

Pakistan -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,15772.msg169597.html#msg169597

Philippines -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,14240.msg158066.html#msg158066

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,14380.msg155598.html#msg155598

Vietnam -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,14244.msg154262.html#msg154262

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,1854.msg21483.html#msg21483

India -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,6518.msg73303.html#msg73303

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,12311.msg137548.html#msg137548

Norks -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,15137.msg169082.html#msg169082

And because they are directly related to global issues -

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,4585.msg168199.html#msg168199

http://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,913.msg147158.html#msg147158

Now, get in there and post!   ::thumbsup::
Irrumabo!  GOP? - Nope. No more. They made their bed, now let them die in it.*
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