Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 88133 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #300 on: October 22, 2021, 08:07:38 AM »
Hilarious...

Not defending REMF Austin at all and as I've made clear a zillion times over I want the US out of NATO...if the Euro's want to carry on and sign up new members that's their issue...

Having got that out of the way...

Putin - "The military development of the territory [of Ukraine] is already underway, and this really poses a threat to Russia."  "The Secretary of Defense has arrived, in fact, opening the doors for Ukraine to NATO, in fact, his statement should and can be interpreted in this way..."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nato-presence-ukraine-already-underway-poses-real-threat-russia-putin

Funny how such clarity is present in this situation versus say the Iranian nuclear threat to Israel which Czar Vlad not only ignores but defiantly rejects through direct support of the Mahdi Death Cult.

I will bet any sum of money against a doughnut if an offer was put on the table for Russia to abandon Iran in exchange for the West abandoning Ukraine he would reject it outright.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #301 on: October 25, 2021, 08:37:56 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/putin-lays-cards-down-approve-nord-stream-2-get-more-gas

Russia to Germany -  ::kiss-my-ass::

 ::hysterical::

Meanwhile, butthurt Eurotards in Brussels still investigating Gazprom for "manipulation"...

Ohh, so cute...hypocrites soiling their diapers...

Everybody cheats, manipulates and threatens...might makes right, old as Adam, er Cain actually...
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #302 on: October 26, 2021, 10:19:49 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/putin-lays-cards-down-approve-nord-stream-2-get-more-gas

Russia to Germany -  ::kiss-my-ass::

 ::hysterical::

Meanwhile, butthurt Eurotards in Brussels still investigating Gazprom for "manipulation"...

Ohh, so cute...hypocrites soiling their diapers...

Everybody cheats, manipulates and threatens...might makes right, old as Adam, er Cain actually...

 ::thumbsup::

Spoken like a true Christian!

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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #303 on: October 26, 2021, 01:29:06 PM »

7 nin. Why I like Putin. He has been talking like this for many years.
https://youtu.be/g6sIZ8-C1vw
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #304 on: November 11, 2021, 11:46:53 AM »
Screw Ukraine, screw Romania and the insignificant Black Sea...

Poland and the lunatic in Belarus are inflaming Poland and the Baltics...and pretty sure Lukashenko can't wipe his ass without the blessing of Putin...just like Aeroflot cannot fly invaders to the borders without his permission...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/baltic-states-warn-military-clash-over-belarus-deliberate-escalation-migrant-crisis

Poland and the Baltics should repel these invaders with lethal force...and they should not wait on a feckless EU to dither and make things worse because of their own insane invader worship BS...

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #305 on: November 15, 2021, 08:28:34 AM »
 "Pesident of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko wants Russian nuclear-capable Iskander missile systems to deploy in the south and west of the country, he said in an interview with a Russian defense magazine published on Saturday."

Despite the Kremlin not commenting on the statements when pressed by Western reporters, there's little doubt that it's the most inconvenient moment possible to open up such a discussion as provocative as nuclear weapons - again given it appears Russia is trying to distance itself from some of Belarus' leaders' most outlandish statements.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/belarus-leader-asks-russia-station-nuclear-capable-missiles-near-poland-ukraine

 ::hysterical::

Yeah, right!  Saying it so without any evidence of anything of the like ever being said does not make it true...so, it appears the aim of Putin is to let the West think this is a good idea and that Russia is happy to do whatever it takes to make a lunatic happy, eh?  A mad man wanting nukes?  Nothing new there...just this latest one doesn't speak Farsi...may want Jews dead though too...

Whatever.  Rabid dog on a leash is still a rabid dog...
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #306 on: November 18, 2021, 09:01:18 AM »
Baltics are akin to Russia what Poland was in WWII...an entry point.



https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/estonia-orders-snap-military-drill-calls-reservists-fortify-border-russia

But for any who know the region, it's geography and strengths and weaknesses...Latvia is the key for any invasion from the East...and why ally Belarus no matter how batshyt-crazy its leadership is, is critical for Russia not just for the Baltics but Ukraine and Europe itself.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #307 on: November 18, 2021, 02:21:27 PM »
the duran guys report on Belarus. They say that the EU pays Turkey to hold back migrants but sanctions Belarus so Belarus gets even.
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #308 on: November 18, 2021, 03:45:41 PM »
From previous reading some countries, France Germany, Ukraine and Russia, I think met and hammered out the Minsk agreements. They included agreements to keep certain classes of weapon certain distances from the contact line in Eastern Ukraine. Ukraine govt violated that part not long ago. The US was not invited as there was fear we would stir things up.

The agreements included requiring Ukraine and the Eastern regions to met directly with each other. Now the Ukraine govt is refusing that part.

I did not watch the video below yet.
https://youtu.be/xjrwNdxfqp8
West Shocked as Moscow Rules out Summit on Ukraine, Insists on Direct Talks between Kiev and Donbass
4,767 views
Nov 18, 2021
Alexander Mercouris
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #309 on: November 18, 2021, 03:55:24 PM »
War, uhh, what's it good for...

Settling sh*t, same as it every was...
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #310 on: December 01, 2021, 11:36:05 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/belarusian-president-lukashenko-threatens-halt-transit-energy-products-russia

Since Alex the Weak cannot do squat without Emperor Vlad's approval...it's just more of his farting out his mouth...

If I were Poland I'd want to keep invaders out...if Alex the Weak is such a humanitarian...he can take care of them...   ::mooning::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #311 on: December 07, 2021, 04:45:46 PM »
Well, looks like the Russian ultimatum is going to have a really hard time breaking through EuroClownworld group-think and DeepState group-think pulling His Fraudulency's strings in the Amerikan government...

At the Kremlin last week, Putin drew his red line:

“The threat on our western borders is … rising, as we have said multiple times. … In our dialogue with the United States and its allies, we will insist on developing concrete agreements prohibiting any further eastward expansion of NATO and the placement there of weapons systems in the immediate vicinity of Russian territory.”

That comes close to an ultimatum. And NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg backhanded the President of Russia for issuing it:

“It’s only Ukraine and 30 NATO allies that decide when Ukraine is ready to join NATO. … Russia has no veto, Russia has no say, and Russia has no right to establish a sphere of influence trying to control their neighbors.”

https://buchanan.org/blog/putin-to-biden-finlandize-ukraine-or-we-will-158813

...and despite Buchanan's desire to have Amerika bow out...


H/T-WZ

...all His Fraudulency is doing right now is threatening more economic sanctions and threaten to deploy more troops if Putin invades Ukraine...oh, and threatens to call Putin on the phone...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10280951/Putin-preparing-invade-Ukraine-not-clear-final-decision-made.html

I guess deploying after is a bold move...   :o

And listening to JoeFraud brain-fart on the phone between diaper changes and meds and pudding is probably the most harrowing thing Vlad has to suffer...up front anyway...

Ukraine threatens the Euro's with millions of refugees...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10283695/Escalating-tensions-Europe-scale-Russia-warns-ahead-talks-Biden-Putin.html



Hypocrites on both sides...

What happened to Russian pro-sovereignty of nations principle?  OK when a nation aligns with Russia...but not with anybody else, eh?  And I'm being the Devil's advocate, don't care either way.  But Putin is showing typical Russian paranoia on Ukraine and other former East-Bloc nations joining NATO...he says the aim is to encircle Russia and push for regime change in Russia...a stunning admission that is being way too overlooked in my opinion...

Is Putin so insecure in his nation that there is a chance of that happening?  Is whatever NATO does deployment-wise in such areas not easily countered by state of the art Russian systems?  What happened to invincibility?  There is also the pesky fact of who invaded who first?  Putin loves bringing up the old rigged Presidential contest in Ukraine where their guy got canned...but hey we got screwed over hear in America and I don't see ya giving a crap about that?  Hey, would ya be in the same boat if JoeFraud lost fair and square?

Anyway, cut to the chase...let's talk partition and nobody place limits on the other about what they do with their half...y'all did it by force last time in Eurpoe after the last world war...do it again peacefully now to avoid a third...or is that not face-saving enough for your fragile ego?

Anyway...if he invades...doubt Euro's can do much but bitch and moan...and America cannot respond unless the DeepState wants to expand the carnage...

Given how little control anybody has over the DeepState I cannot say I am instilled with much confidence that WWIII won't break out...I guess we'll see who is really calling the shots after all...

Grab a drink, pull up a chair...

« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 04:48:50 PM by Libertas »
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #312 on: December 07, 2021, 05:07:54 PM »
Look up the treaty made in 1994 (I forget the name of it) among us, Britain and Ukraine, the basis of which was Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons on the grounds we and Britain would protect it against Russia.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #313 on: December 08, 2021, 07:59:28 AM »
Look up the treaty made in 1994 (I forget the name of it) among us, Britain and Ukraine, the basis of which was Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons on the grounds we and Britain would protect it against Russia.

1994 Budapest Memorandum of Security Assurances

https://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2014/eirv41n08-20140221/34-35_4108.pdf

Independence, sovereignty of Ukraine, no use of force against Ukraine, no economic coercion against Ukraine, no nukes, UNSC, blah blah blah...

That agreement?  Ha!  So 1994!  Also included Belarus and Kazakhstan for NPT...all gave up their nukes...latter 2 became vassals again and Ukraine got invaded and coerced and had Crimea seized and Eastern territory included in the 1994 borders breached.  That worked well.

Russia, in classic neo-Soviet style...claims since their puppet got ousted as Ukraine President that anything signed became null and void...which if anybody with a reasonably functioning brain would see virtually the entire history of agreements rendered void on such a childish interpretation.

Basically Putin defaulted to his KGB roots and re-adopted the Brezhnev Doctrine of quasi-sovereignty of vassals...such nations may think they are independent and sovereign...so long as they obey Russia, or Russia reserves the exclusive unchallengeable regardless of signed anything with anybody ever right to discipline said wayward vassal any way it pleases.  And since all it takes is one planted puppet to "invite" troops and advisors in, super simple to secure a foothold.

On these grounds we should all adopt the Putin Doctrine...makes life oh so much more cut and dry.  Finally, Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Arctic, Greenland, Iceland, West Indies islands...all belong to us for the taking!
 ::whoohoo::

ETA - Heck, what the EU is trying to do to Poland is no different...just hasn't got to the invasion stage yet...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/poland-vs-eu-battle-political-sovereignty

Time to join 'em since we can't beat 'em!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 08:23:32 AM by Libertas »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #314 on: December 08, 2021, 11:54:12 AM »
The phone call...


A bilateral discussion between Russia’s Vladimir Putin and US President Joe Biden began with an awkward moment as Mr Biden fumbled with his microphone for the first few seconds of the call.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-putin-call-microphone-video-b1971555.html

So...pudding-head brain-farted at the start...not really shocking...and this pic with pudding-head sitting there with 4 handlers...Putin sits alone...

 ::unknowncomic::
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #315 on: December 08, 2021, 12:45:32 PM »
And THE MASKS!!!! I can't stand it!
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #316 on: December 08, 2021, 05:47:06 PM »

There is more than one  side to the Ukraine Russia story.

In early 2014 the US and EU backed the Madan coup, forcing out the elected Ukraine president. The US, EU, and IMF sent billions to Ukraine, most of which ended up in DC, Brussels, Paris, London.

Years ago, The Ukraine govt decided to screw over ethnic Russians in the East. I recall they forbid teaching Russian in schools, maybe cancelled some pensions. This lead to armed conflict between the Kiev govt and the Eastern Ukraine.

France, Germany, and Russia held meetings (excluding the US) with the East and Kiev. They hammered out the Minsk accords in late 2014. This required Kiev to meet directly with the East and to keep a set distance from the contact line.

The people of Crimea voted to rejoin Russia. Over 90%. This was OK for Kosovo BTW. NATO bombed to enforce that. Russia already had a huge naval base and lots of troops.

Ukraine used to export lots of ag products and heavy industry to Russia. The sanctions ended that. I think Greece, Baltics,  and other countries also ended exports and got screwed. Ukraine was the major source of aviation in the USSR. Planes, helicopters, gas turbines, etc. That ended. The workers are screwed. China is buying some gas turbines for military use but will stop that once they steal the IP. They are already making them inside China.

The EU will not buy Ukraine ag products. Russia is now self sufficient in all these products and even exports food. The later is a shocker to me, remembering the old days.
The US forced Russia into bed with China. So anything they do not make they can get from China. Russia wanted to be part of EU and even NATO.

Recently, for internal political reasons, Kiev violated the Minsk accords and moved heavy forces to the contact line. Kiev refuses to meet with the East, as required by the Minsk accords. Russia moved their forces to their border.

Kiev pulled forces mostly back. Russian kept theirs in place. The Kiev forces are in crappy trenches. The Russian forces have warm beds and hot showers.

The major take away is that Ukraine is screwed thanks to the anti Russian sanctions. Much of Ukraine has left the country.
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #317 on: December 09, 2021, 09:18:43 AM »


At 23:00 Tucker talks about the US-Russia tiff.
McGregor said Russia reverted to Othrodox Christianity.
Tucker said maybe that is why the US is trying to destroy  Russia.

https://rumble.com/vqgksn-following-putin-biden-summit-neocons-push-for-war.html

https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/tucker-carlson-us-would-gain-nothing-in-confrontation-with-russia
...
COL. DOUGLAS MACGREGOR (RET), U.S. ARMY: Well, based upon your monologue, it is hard to tell right now, but certainly the destination is the land of the stupid.
...

We're not doing any of those things. We are bent on some sort of revenge mission, which makes no sense to humiliate and harm Russia. Why? It is beyond me.

This is not the Soviet Union, this is Russia. A Russian state that rests on the foundation of Orthodox Christianity. It is back to what it has been for a thousand years, we should celebrate that, not try to destroy it.

CARLSON: Maybe that's one of the reasons we are trying to destroy it.

MACGREGOR: It could be.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #318 on: December 09, 2021, 09:42:30 AM »

There is more than one  side to the Ukraine Russia story.

In early 2014 the US and EU backed the Madan coup, forcing out the elected Ukraine president. The US, EU, and IMF sent billions to Ukraine, most of which ended up in DC, Brussels, Paris, London.

Years ago, The Ukraine govt decided to screw over ethnic Russians in the East. I recall they forbid teaching Russian in schools, maybe cancelled some pensions. This lead to armed conflict between the Kiev govt and the Eastern Ukraine.

France, Germany, and Russia held meetings (excluding the US) with the East and Kiev. They hammered out the Minsk accords in late 2014. This required Kiev to meet directly with the East and to keep a set distance from the contact line.

The people of Crimea voted to rejoin Russia. Over 90%. This was OK for Kosovo BTW. NATO bombed to enforce that. Russia already had a huge naval base and lots of troops.

Ukraine used to export lots of ag products and heavy industry to Russia. The sanctions ended that. I think Greece, Baltics,  and other countries also ended exports and got screwed. Ukraine was the major source of aviation in the USSR. Planes, helicopters, gas turbines, etc. That ended. The workers are screwed. China is buying some gas turbines for military use but will stop that once they steal the IP. They are already making them inside China.

The EU will not buy Ukraine ag products. Russia is now self sufficient in all these products and even exports food. The later is a shocker to me, remembering the old days.
The US forced Russia into bed with China. So anything they do not make they can get from China. Russia wanted to be part of EU and even NATO.

Recently, for internal political reasons, Kiev violated the Minsk accords and moved heavy forces to the contact line. Kiev refuses to meet with the East, as required by the Minsk accords. Russia moved their forces to their border.

Kiev pulled forces mostly back. Russian kept theirs in place. The Kiev forces are in crappy trenches. The Russian forces have warm beds and hot showers.

The major take away is that Ukraine is screwed thanks to the anti Russian sanctions. Much of Ukraine has left the country.

Mmm, so what?

1994 came first...the territorial integrity of former Soviet puppet states reverted to their largely pre-war boundaries...Yeltsin signed it binding Russia to respect those borders...and they didn't...which led to Minsk I signed by corrupt Pro-Russia anti-press Kuchma in 2014 to calm things down and lock in Pro-Russia territorial seizures in the East...and was so effective it had to have a follow on memorandum for the so-called "security zone...which quickly came under pressure when Pro-Russia forces started getting hungry for more violence and territory that it blew up amnesty crap pushed through by corrupt Oligarch Poroshenko that led to Minsk II to stop the violence in Donbas.  Minsk is an abject failure that is always used by Russia and Pro-Russia factions as a brick in any negotiations while 1994 agreement that established national boundaries is completely ignored by them.

Parse, nuance and spin all they might...the fact is Russia and Pro-Russia separatists broke the sovereignty agreement, fomented dissent, inflamed division and began violence.

So, if it is OK for Russia to violate 1994...why is it not OK for US and Europe to violate anything that followed?  Either the same logic of corrupt faithless signatories matter in all or they matter in none, which is it?

Bottom line - the only thing operative since 1994 is that might makes right, violence solves all...so let there be violence and let people stop pretending otherwise.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #319 on: December 09, 2021, 09:56:26 AM »


At 23:00 Tucker talks about the US-Russia tiff.
McGregor said Russia reverted to Othrodox Christianity.
Tucker said maybe that is why the US is trying to destroy  Russia.

https://rumble.com/vqgksn-following-putin-biden-summit-neocons-push-for-war.html

https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/tucker-carlson-us-would-gain-nothing-in-confrontation-with-russia
...
COL. DOUGLAS MACGREGOR (RET), U.S. ARMY: Well, based upon your monologue, it is hard to tell right now, but certainly the destination is the land of the stupid.
...

We're not doing any of those things. We are bent on some sort of revenge mission, which makes no sense to humiliate and harm Russia. Why? It is beyond me.

This is not the Soviet Union, this is Russia. A Russian state that rests on the foundation of Orthodox Christianity. It is back to what it has been for a thousand years, we should celebrate that, not try to destroy it.

CARLSON: Maybe that's one of the reasons we are trying to destroy it.

MACGREGOR: It could be.


There are competing interests in the US that have to be understood...the DeepState that controls most aspects of political, strategic and economic forces in America is predominate but within this sphere is the competing interests of the Pentagon, State and the Intel community (as well as within the IC vis a vis the CIA vs KGB)...all play off as well as with each other as their interests align.  Within the Political arena are competing factions of Statist Marxists and Fascist Cucks and a small but determined band of Liberty-loving patriots...and then there is the largely DeepState-obedient bureaucrats that Cucks and Patriots (more the latter) battle with.  Then there is the Fifth Columnists in the PressCorpse and ThinkTanks and Globalist enterprises and NGO's.

The targeting of Russia (or anybody for that matter) is largely DeepState driven with all the competing agendas and frictions attendant...it is not We, the American people...and that is meant in the greater plural and well as the majority plural of Patriots in conservative and libertarian and independent camps to the degrees present within them...it is they/them doing the targeting.

Yay, Russia is Orthodox Christian.  Swell, who still have a Soviet appetite for territory and enjoy making money of the most despotic regimes on the planet by selling them weapons and technology...and it is this latter behavior that makes it easy for Russia-targeting elements march to the DeepState beat.

See what I am getting at?
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