Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[Libertas]

H/T-WZ
What's happened before can happen again and again...   

[patentlymn]

A good but long video on Ukraine. 44 min they talk about the corruption.
Earlier they talk about the Azov battalion. There are actually private neo Nazi militias incorporated into the regular army.
Scott Ritter says there are 3 countries actually.  West, actually Polish. East actually Russia. Central which longs for the efficiency of the USSR (not joking).

https://youtu.be/NLpPyuzxSf4
Is Russia really planning a war in Ukraine - or is Washington?
20,853 views
Streamed live on Dec 9, 2021
The Grayzone
161K subscriber
Follow Scott on Twitter at https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter

50 min. The Ukrainians hate the West because they are being used against Russia and getting screwed in the process.

Russia is second oil exporter to US, second to Canada.

[Libertas]

https://www.weaselzippers.us/477306-report-putin-added-10k-more-troops-to-ukraine-border-after-call-with-biden/

Nothing will avert war...

Get used to the idea.

[patentlymn]

https://www.weaselzippers.us/477306-report-putin-added-10k-more-troops-to-ukraine-border-after-call-with-biden/

Nothing will avert war...

Get used to the idea.

As long as the US is not involved I do not care.

[Libertas]

https://www.weaselzippers.us/477306-report-putin-added-10k-more-troops-to-ukraine-border-after-call-with-biden/

Nothing will avert war...

Get used to the idea.

As long as the US is not involved I do not care.

Oh ye of short term memory...

There will be...the template is already established...unpreparedness coupled with stupid decisions...loss of life and ignominious retreat...

All there is to see is if that is all there is or if more triggers get pulled making a regional conflict global and release the Four Horsemen...

As a betting man I would play the field and plan for the worse case scenario...

Besides, wtf can we the oppressed do about it anyway?

[Libertas]

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov described that "The situation in international affairs, especially on the European continent, is very, very tense right now and requires discussion between allies."

He underscored that "We see very, very aggressive rhetoric on the NATO and US side, and this requires discussion between us and the Chinese."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/xi-putin-discuss-very-aggressive-us-nato-rhetoric-virtual-summit

 

How very, very, very, very-very...aggressively hypocritical and hilarious!!!   

A virtual Karen & Karen whine-fest...yay, what fun!   

[patentlymn]

https://www.weaselzippers.us/477306-report-putin-added-10k-more-troops-to-ukraine-border-after-call-with-biden/

Nothing will avert war...

Get used to the idea.

As long as the US is not involved I do not care.

Oh ye of short term memory...

There will be...the template is already established...unpreparedness coupled with stupid decisions...loss of life and ignominious retreat...

All there is to see is if that is all there is or if more triggers get pulled making a regional conflict global and release the Four Horsemen...

As a betting man I would play the field and plan for the worse case scenario...

Besides, wtf can we the oppressed do about it anyway?

When the Albanians in Serbia were being oppressed the US and NATO went to war to give them Kosovo. Now if the ethnic Russians are oppressed in Ukraine that is different?  What if the Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina want to join the Serbs in Serbia? IMO not our problem.

[Libertas]

https://www.weaselzippers.us/477306-report-putin-added-10k-more-troops-to-ukraine-border-after-call-with-biden/

Nothing will avert war...

Get used to the idea.

As long as the US is not involved I do not care.

Oh ye of short term memory...

There will be...the template is already established...unpreparedness coupled with stupid decisions...loss of life and ignominious retreat...

All there is to see is if that is all there is or if more triggers get pulled making a regional conflict global and release the Four Horsemen...

As a betting man I would play the field and plan for the worse case scenario...

Besides, wtf can we the oppressed do about it anyway?

When the Albanians in Serbia were being oppressed the US and NATO went to war to give them Kosovo. Now if the ethnic Russians are oppressed in Ukraine that is different?  What if the Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina want to join the Serbs in Serbia? IMO not our problem.

Sure, but everybody (with power) gets in everybody's business all the time...I don't see that changing anytime soon...

[patentlymn]

https://www.weaselzippers.us/477306-report-putin-added-10k-more-troops-to-ukraine-border-after-call-with-biden/

Nothing will avert war...

Get used to the idea.

As long as the US is not involved I do not care.

Oh ye of short term memory...

There will be...the template is already established...unpreparedness coupled with stupid decisions...loss of life and ignominious retreat...

All there is to see is if that is all there is or if more triggers get pulled making a regional conflict global and release the Four Horsemen...

As a betting man I would play the field and plan for the worse case scenario...

Besides, wtf can we the oppressed do about it anyway?

When the Albanians in Serbia were being oppressed the US and NATO went to war to give them Kosovo. Now if the ethnic Russians are oppressed in Ukraine that is different?  What if the Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina want to join the Serbs in Serbia? IMO not our problem.

Sure, but everybody (with power) gets in everybody's business all the time...I don't see that changing anytime soon...

Yeah.
China is acting much worse but they bought off too many in the US govt. Tibet. India. Now Taiwan.
The Duran and now Vox Day are reporting on how Russia had developed an alternative to Swift which is one of the last big sanctions that could be used. They have yet to implement it. Many have commented on how the US keeps doing things that will end the dollar as the world reserve currency. They sanction countries who then work around the sanctions.

The Duran reported on how Russia over came sanctions by dong things internally. The biggest loser is Ukraine as they used to export lots to Russia. Much of their population has emigrated.
https://voxday.net/2021/12/15/were-not-locked-out-youre-locked-out/
https://www.rt.com/russia/543258-moscow-china-create-independent-structure/

[Libertas]

Bypassing Swift likely still be an issue...at best it would be a Asian bloc thing...which is fine with me as Russia pivoting east not west so...let everyone end run everybody and fractionalize into hostile conglomerates...

Again, wtf can I do so wtf do I care anymore?  All problems lead to despots on everybody's side...

Till everyone rises up and beats the crap out of all despots nobody will ever see jack squat change...

If wars don't end it all for everybody first...

Welcome to Sh!tworld...

[patentlymn]

After the USSR broke up Russia wanted to join NATO, not China. IMO we screwed up by forcing them into bed with China.
I have a good 2015 video on. I had it on off and on today. So far 50 minutes in. He makes sense to me.
He says the US is encouraging Ukraine to act out and will end up wrecked in the process.
He has some good ethnic maps and polling maps early on. 6:11, 7:02, 7:12, 7:38,  8:28, 8:45. Most in the West want to join EU, most in the East do not. Most in West want to join NATO, not in the East.

He says the first time things heat up with China we will forget about Ukraine. Most Ukrainians do not want to break up, even those in the East.

He said the US goal is to peel Ukraine away from Russia but Russia will see Ukraine wrecked before they allow Ukraine to join NATO. He hopes that the US goal changes to making Ukraine better off and a buffer state, not wrecking it.

In Apr 2008 the US said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of NATO. He thought Germany and France would kill that idea and he said he was wrong. The Germans do not want to lead.

He said the fascists in the West really spook the Russians. Yes there are neo Nazis in the Ukrainian West.

https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer
110,275 views
Sep 25, 2015

[Libertas]

After defeating a foe, and make no mistake communist Russia was a foe and the cold war was a war...there is a natural inclination of the victor to secure gains made...a Marshall Plan for the Russia was never going to fly politically or by the Pentagon or IC...what should have happened is letting the Euro's take on the task of managing relations...it could have been transitioned over the course of 5 years at the end of which we would disband NATO as it's mission was complete...and let the Euro's manage their partners in all of Europe...leaving Russia to once again decide if it is a European nation or an Asian nation...and historically they've always struggled with that...but a demilitarized Europe may or may not have had an impact on post-communist Russia still filled with long-time communists and neo-capitalist criminal oligarchs...I suspect they would have thinned but not completely rolled back its presence in Eastern Europe...

But, whatever...all that is hindsight thought games...the reality is all sides are doing the wrong thing for the same reasons...insecurity, ego, power, control, greed, lust, fear, anger...stupidity...

It will end in blood because there is no remedy to human weakness entrenched this deep...

[patentlymn]

Of course you are correct in your conclusions. IMO there is so much money at stake in the mostly US military industrial complex there is little chance of that gravy train ending. There is no way NATO spending would end, at least in the short term. NATO needed a boogieman. I read that after Stalin died but before Khrushchev was installed, Beria offered to leave East Germany in exchange for lots of money to the USSR. East German commies found out. He was recalled to Moscow and a bullet put in his head.

Boatloads (many billions) of US, EU, and IMF money was spent on Ukraine but IMO most ended up in DC, London, Brussels, or in the pockets of corrupt Ukrainians. Very little went to help average Ukrainians.

Thanks to US bungling, Russia is now an ally of China and the economy of Ukraine is ruined. As the Duran guys said, current US diplomats could not even negotiate an apartment lease and never have. For historical reasons, Russia does not want NATO countries and tanks on its border. So the US took short term joy in threatening just that.

I believe both Duran guys are sons of diplomats and obsess on that angle. They compare US, Chinese, and Russian diplomats. They say that current US diplomats went to all the right schools and are very smart boys and girls but are terrible diplomats. They show up and make demands then leave. Russia is now self sufficient in most sanctioned items and has China for other materials. Countries that used to sell sanctioned items to them got screwed.

[Libertas]

Ironic...war might be the more human ending to humankind than all this other crap we face...it is truly becoming one sh!t-show of a planet...thanks in large part to greedy corrupt psychotic elites and their brainless minions they've seduced with scraps and flowery titles and taxpayer-funded perks...

As I've always said and will continue to say since I see ZERO evidence to the contrary...there is no safe haven...anywhere...the entire planet is infected too severely...

[Libertas]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/if-nato-rebuffs-russian-security-proposals-kremlin-will-deploy-advanced-weapons

https://youtu.be/bhYckH-RrBo

Yes, yesssss...

Threats, war drums...more, moooore!

[patentlymn]

The Duran went on and on about this recent Russian proposal.

via vox day. I hope this is not true.
Then again I drilled down into the OPCW and the take gas attacks in Syria.
https://voxday.net/2021/12/21/remember-the-maine/
Remember the Maine!

And the Gulf of Tonkin. And the Lusitania. And Pearl Harbor. And the Kuwaiti incubators. And the Twin Towers. And every other US false flag or prearranged incident that was used to justify more US military action around the globe, before you overreact to another one that will lead to making the military error that is proverbial for stupidity: invading Russia in winter.

    US private military companies (PMCs) are preparing a provocation using chemical weapons in troubled and tense eastern Ukraine, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claimed on Tuesday. Moscow believes there are more than 120 employees of American PMCs operating in the region, where they are working with Ukrainian special forces.

    Containers with “unidentified chemical components” have been delivered to the cities of Avdeevka and Krasny Liman in Donbass in order to stage provocations, Shoigu said, at Tuesday’s meeting of the Defense Ministry board, attended by President Vladimir Putin.
https://www.rt.com/russia/543861-us-pmc-chemical-provocation-ukraine/

[Libertas]

Why not?  If true, nothing we can do, if propaganda as a pretext for Russian invasion, same answer...

Not my doing either way, as long as people understand that perhaps the targeting lists will consider that...or not...

Again, not in my power to control...the dogs of war all have masters holding leashes...maters unanswerable to anyone but themselves...

[patentlymn]

Why not?  If true, nothing we can do, if propaganda as a pretext for Russian invasion, same answer...

Not my doing either way, as long as people understand that perhaps the targeting lists will consider that...or not...

Again, not in my power to control...the dogs of war all have masters holding leashes...maters unanswerable to anyone but themselves...

Vox Day is a source of ideas and leads I do not find elsewhere. He is also an arrogant A-hole. I recall he was a big Q anon believer and said that the US military created covid and blamed it on the Chinese. Still, I do not rely on his personal credibility much if ever. E.g. he is not saying the light was green vs red. He passes on interesting leads.

My biggest shock in terms of conspiracy theories was learning about the USS Liberty. The fake Syrian gas attacks were another, as they were revealed in real time.

He introduced me to Michael Hudson, a very interesting economist who grew up some in Minneapolis. A very interesting guy.
Here is Michael Hudson.
https://youtu.be/hH9pzzIIEj4

[patentlymn]

I hope this is not true. Putin says the US wants to put missiles in Ukraine. If so, that is 7 minutes flight time to Moscow.
That is insanity. I recall how the US got upset over Soviet missiles in Cuba, much further than that from DC or NYC.

https://youtu.be/1yA0Y6CpYcI
BREAKING! Putin: US Wants To Put Hypersonic Missiles In Ukraine! Russia Has "Nowhere To Retreat"!
22,290 views
Dec 21, 2021
Russia Insight
Russian President Vladimir Putin : The United States and its allies need to understand that Russia simply "has nowhere to retreat" if American missiles appear in Ukraine.

[patentlymn]

Also
https://youtu.be/WCQshen6rXw
BREAKING! Putin: Who Gave USA The Right To Target European Capital Belgrade? They Do As They Please!
11,088 views
Dec 21, 2021
Russia Insight
Russian President Vladimir Putin: What was the pretext to target Serbia? Was it authorised by the Security Council, or what? Where is Yugoslavia and where is the United States? Who gave them the right to conduct airstrikes against a European capital? No one did. They just chose to do so, and their satellites were running behind them yelping along. So much for international law.