Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 88414 times)

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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #380 on: January 15, 2022, 01:32:03 PM »

Stalin moved people around the USSR for evil political purposes I cannot recall the details of. IMO not much can be done about that now. I recall NATO protected the Albanians who migrated into Serbian areas in another country. Expelling them was not allowed and I cannot imagine expelling the ethnic Russians from Ukraine to undo what Stalin did if that is the reason for the ethnic Russians being in Eastern Ukraine. I cannot remember.

Putin and the Russians can think more than one step ahead. IMO the US govt cannot think even one step ahead. The Duran guys are both sons of diplomats as I recall. So they obsess on diplomacy and talk about it all the time. Both the Duran and the Grayzone say that US diplomats are chuckle-heads. Not their exact words. They laugh at their incompetence.

The Duran said that the US diplomats are very smart boys and girls who went to all the right schools and joined the right organizations but they could not negotiate a used car purchase.

For the sake of argument, lets say the Russians are evil and the US is good.
What are the goals of the countries?
Russia
1. We do not want NATO forces on our doorstep, similar to the Monroe doctrine.
2. Do not harm ethnic Russians inside your country that was part of the USSR. Blood is thicker than water.

US
1. Lets piss off the Russians.
2. Lets try to weaken Russia.
3. What about Ukraine? We do not care. Just like we did not care about Libya or Syria. Leave it in ruins.
4. We have no long term goals.


What would happen after the US imposed trade sanctions against Russia?
1. Russia would change trade partners and become self sufficient in those goods.
2. The countries selling to Russia were screwed.This included Greece and many other countries
3.  Ukrainian industries selling to Russia were screwed and the EU was not going to allow such imports from Ukraine.
4. Russia is now self sufficient in food and is a large exporter.
5. Russia is now aligned with China, their second choice after Europe.

What would happen after the US imposed financial sanctions against Russia and announced they might kick Russia off SWIFT in the future?
1. Russia develops an alternative to SWIFT.

What would happen after the US financial sanctions against Russia?
1. Russia now has a balanced budget and has no net financial debt. They have no need to borrow on the international markets. I think they even have a net trade surplus? 

What would happen after the US sanctions too many countries?
1. They turn to China.
2. They develop alternatives to the dollar for trade. Slowly but surely.
3. The US dollar will not be the reserve currency sooner rather than later.

Good luck with threatening Russia with sanctions.  The Duran said that after previous US sanction threats some Russian financial markets tanked. Maybe the ruble or bank stocks? This time nothing happened.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #381 on: January 15, 2022, 02:23:55 PM »

Stalin moved people around the USSR for evil political purposes I cannot recall the details of. IMO not much can be done about that now. I recall NATO protected the Albanians who migrated into Serbian areas in another country. Expelling them was not allowed and I cannot imagine expelling the ethnic Russians from Ukraine to undo what Stalin did if that is the reason for the ethnic Russians being in Eastern Ukraine. I cannot remember.

Putin and the Russians can think more than one step ahead. IMO the US govt cannot think even one step ahead. The Duran guys are both sons of diplomats as I recall. So they obsess on diplomacy and talk about it all the time. Both the Duran and the Grayzone say that US diplomats are chuckle-heads. Not their exact words. They laugh at their incompetence.

The Duran said that the US diplomats are very smart boys and girls who went to all the right schools and joined the right organizations but they could not negotiate a used car purchase.

For the sake of argument, lets say the Russians are evil and the US is good.
What are the goals of the countries?
Russia
1. We do not want NATO forces on our doorstep, similar to the Monroe doctrine.
2. Do not harm ethnic Russians inside your country that was part of the USSR. Blood is thicker than water.

US
1. Lets piss off the Russians.
2. Lets try to weaken Russia.
3. What about Ukraine? We do not care. Just like we did not care about Libya or Syria. Leave it in ruins.
4. We have no long term goals.


What would happen after the US imposed trade sanctions against Russia?
1. Russia would change trade partners and become self sufficient in those goods.
2. The countries selling to Russia were screwed.This included Greece and many other countries
3.  Ukrainian industries selling to Russia were screwed and the EU was not going to allow such imports from Ukraine.
4. Russia is now self sufficient in food and is a large exporter.
5. Russia is now aligned with China, their second choice after Europe.

What would happen after the US imposed financial sanctions against Russia and announced they might kick Russia off SWIFT in the future?
1. Russia develops an alternative to SWIFT.

What would happen after the US financial sanctions against Russia?
1. Russia now has a balanced budget and has no net financial debt. They have no need to borrow on the international markets. I think they even have a net trade surplus? 

What would happen after the US sanctions too many countries?
1. They turn to China.
2. They develop alternatives to the dollar for trade. Slowly but surely.
3. The US dollar will not be the reserve currency sooner rather than later.

Good luck with threatening Russia with sanctions.  The Duran said that after previous US sanction threats some Russian financial markets tanked. Maybe the ruble or bank stocks? This time nothing happened.

Obviously I call BS on that! 

First, it's intellectually lazy.

Second, it excuses past sins to commit new ones.

Third, there is something to be done...tell Vlad to take his Rus squatters back and STFO of other people's territory.

I know, it asks a lot...the least of which is honesty and integrity.

Plus, if you think dumping people in an area and then coming back and using it as an example to exert Monroe Doctrine rights for the conqueror...then there is a sh!tload of opportunity out there for all to have a blast with!!!

And, buttressing my insane rabid desperate cornered dog characterization of the JoeFraud regime...

Jack Posobiec - This morning I warned you the admin was getting desperate and discussing military options in Ukraine to distract from their domestic failures:

All is well, Chessmaster Putin has this all gamed out.  No war, no widening conflict...peace, love, good will among men and harmony will prevail...

/
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #382 on: January 15, 2022, 03:00:04 PM »
My point was that even if Putin is evil his goals are clear and he acts to achieve them. Also China. The US goals are to poke the bear and enrich the defense contractors. What happens next is not thought of.

The Russians moved to Ukraine had little choice. Stalin moved around lots of people.
I think he deported lots of Tartars from Crimea.
USSR deported all ethnic Germans from many countries after WWII. They had been imported in part because of their great farming expertise. There were German cities deep inside Russia for a  long time. Maybe hundreds of years. They may have been allowed to govern themselves?

The Monroe Doctrine type thinking would apply to Ukraine without a single Russian living there. They don't want NATO tanks on their borders. Even if that is evil that is their goal.



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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #383 on: January 15, 2022, 05:27:05 PM »



Alexander is saying that the Russians met with US. Provided written demands for written US guarantees. Will not meet again with Americans. Will await WRITTEN replies from US.

He thinks Russians will not invade. Germany is saying that anything that would disrupt their gas would really hurt them now.
He said Blinken was told by Germans and EU that sanctions would hurt them too much. He said that pissed off Blinken to no end.

Max Blumenthal named Blinken "Blinkenskrieg."  He has a wicked sense of humor.

Long. 51 min.
https://youtu.be/hk9b0yw1XBk
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #384 on: January 15, 2022, 05:49:11 PM »
I am just reporting what Alexander said about Russian diplomat Lavrov.
US says countries have the right to chose alliances.
BUT
 EU parliament passed resolution against Russia union with Belarus to stop it.
Turkey, India Indonesia and Egypt threatened with US sanctions for defense cooperation with Russia.
Germany must negotiate with US to build pipeline with Russia.

When US sanctioned farm exports from US to Russia back when it harmed US farmers. Under Carter?
2014 US sanctions against Russia were to harm Russia but less US and EU.
Now Russia is immune to most harm from sanctions BUT Germany and EU would get clobbered so they do not want sanctions. THIS is what pissed off Blinken.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #385 on: January 16, 2022, 10:48:10 AM »
Well, as this is a microcosm of what the (snort!) so-called professionals are encountering I don't think I can make my points any more clear...suffice it to say that ego, greed and pride often trample facts, wisdom and justice...and I see nothing from any side that indicates a single element of the latter exists.

I see no heroes anywhere in this...no saints, no martyrs, no prophets...no champions, no knights, no justice...no wisdom...I see every one of the Seven Deadly Sins and nothing else.

What comes of this conflict or any other is never going to be long lasting any way you cut it...the species is simply too stupid to live at this point...and it is retrograding globally at an alarming rate....

There is only one conclusion sane people can agree on - we cannot do anything about things like this so we best look to ourselves and our families and loved ones.

ETA -

Peskov decried the current atmosphere where the West is blowing off Russia's legitimate security concerns, and seems unwilling to compromise: “This is the reason we are insisting on receiving a direct response." He said that his side in good faith offered "extremely specific proposals" - presented to Washington and Brussels in the form of the draft 'security guarantees' earlier this month.

He stressed that while Moscow isn't at the moment "speaking about military action" - it remains that Russia is not "going to say that we will not deploy any offensive weapons on Ukraine’s territory."

However, it remains unclear the degree to which he posited this as 'an option'. Instead, it seems the remarks simply reflect that with no apparent willingness to compromise coming out of the West, the Kremlin can't in turn take any option of the table.

Of the more controversial statements by Peskov, Russian media clarified the following:

Later, on Sunday, Peskov elaborated on what he had said about potential weapons deployment to Ukraine. Before any judgment was passed, he told Russian media, his statement needed to be understood in context, adding that a quote attributed to him by America's Bloomberg was "their words." RT was unable to access the full interview at the time of publication.


 ::hysterical::  Naturally!   ::laughonfloor::

The hyperbole and pettiness of all concerned is hilarious!  Just reinforces my assessment that every one of these professionals is a sack of sh!t.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 11:27:15 AM by Libertas »
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #386 on: January 16, 2022, 12:31:11 PM »

Even if Peskov is a sack of sh*t I understand what he is saying. I don't have to agree with his goals to understand them.

I have no idea what the US goals are other than to poke the bear and undermine Russia
What were the US long term goals in Libya, Syria, and Ukraine?
I once listened to some Ghaddafi remarks in front of the UN and was shocked at how much sense he made.
I agreed with maybe half but I understood them all.

Trivia: I read a book on the French conquest of the Sahara and another on maybe taking over Morocco? Sultans were chosen based on blood  lines, Islamic scholarship, and military prowess. It helped if they were a little bit crazy. Crazy meant they were closer to God. I thought of Ghaddafi.

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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #387 on: January 16, 2022, 04:08:14 PM »

I did not watch the whole thing. This is a crazy idea. If the goal is to ruin Ukraine further then this will help.
This is based on a recent NYT article floating this idea.

https://youtu.be/Y3J0in2NF9s
Lacking Military Options US Considers Disastrous Plan to Sponsor Partisan War in Ukraine
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Alexander Mercouris
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #388 on: January 16, 2022, 06:29:54 PM »

Alex expounds on this. I have it on in background on roku. Says Biden is acting on Ukraine to distract from build back better, OSHA, low approval ratings.

I remember what some Reagan admin person said about the Korean airlines shoot down. "Everybody lies, the trick is to lie first."  There was some minor (IMO) US manipulation of the recording of the Russian air defense recording as bet I recall. It made the Russians look a little worse than they already did, which was bad.


https://youtu.be/kIOrJzJI8ek
Psaki says Russia preparing false flag to invade Ukraine
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #389 on: January 17, 2022, 08:33:10 AM »
Full scale war...limited war...protracted insurgency...

Yeah, so?

Nobody GAFF...

This is their playground not anybody else's...

There is no such thing as a crazy idea in a world overflowing with imbeciles...

Grab a chair, crack a brew...enjoy the show... 

ETA - The latest not a be concerned about...

RUssian cyber attacks and another fantasy has the pro-Rus camp alleging American spooks at Langley bringing Ukrainians in to train them as Russian-murdering insurgents.

Ahh, such drama...

Raise the curtain already!!!   ::popcorn::
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 09:27:42 AM by Libertas »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #390 on: January 18, 2022, 08:39:23 AM »
Oh, Lord...these people are all over the map with excuses...

But Moscow is pointing the finger right back at NATO, with on Sunday Putin's spokesman admitting Russian troops are on the border because it can no longer "tolerate" NATO's own "gradual invasion" of Ukraine.

Wow, such possessiveness is indicative of unyielding intent and does little to convince anyone paying attention that invasion is not in the offing.

I would call this hand immediately.

Ukraine is there for the taking!  Might makes right, so get mighty.  Don't miss your fair share!

So, only a neighbor can invade a neighbor?  Cool, sell a sh*tload of weapons and arms to Poland (and other interested neighbors), let them march...   :o

The energy side is tilted...with the EU (especially the German's) submitting to Russian control any efforts to bypass them will collapse, and it will be the Euro's who drive it.

Everybody involved with this is a snot-nosed toddler...   ::hysterical::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #391 on: January 19, 2022, 09:12:22 AM »
 ::rimshot::

More war drums...as Russia & Belarus launch "snap" drills in the latter's back yard...

The Russian official additionally informed NATO diplomats that its "S-400 missile systems would be deployed as part of the exercises in Belarus."

https://youtu.be/_dgOnzmIyj8

Babushka, is this a good thing?  Da.  OK then...

UK promises defensive weapons sales to Ukraine...

"We have taken the decision to supply Ukraine with light anti-armor defensive weapons systems," Wallace told the Commons on Monday, adding that “a small number” of British troops would provide training to help Kyiv’s forces in using them.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-launches-snap-war-drills-belarus-aimed-thwarting-external-aggression

A more curious development is the statement by the new German Chancellor Olaf Scholz - "Germany may consider halting the Nord Stream 2 pipeline if Russia attacks Ukraine, Chancellor Olaf Scholz signaled on Tuesday, as pressure grew on his government to take a more hawkish stance on the Kremlin," Reuters reports of the statements made after he met with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg.


That Stoltenberg must be one silver-tongued devil to get so many marching to his tune, eh?

Ahh heck, all is well...nobody is serious about war or inflexible to peace and cooperation...everything will be fine.

https://youtu.be/k40GOWT31Jw

SWIFT not off the table...  Damn face, off with the nose!

 ::unknowncomic::

ETA - Lot of news pouring in today...

I hear the Russians best amphibious group is moving into the Black Sea...

And now His Fraudulency is giving Ukraine $200M in aid...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-giving-ukraine-200m-more-military-aid-blinken-talks-diplomacy

And NATO is boosting "cyber cooperation" with Ukraine...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nato-signs-deal-ukraine-deepen-cyber-cooperation
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 12:26:35 PM by Libertas »
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #392 on: January 20, 2022, 09:06:25 AM »
LOL!  Jello-headed JoeFraud just gave Putin the green-light to invade Ukraine!

"I believe he's calculating what the immediate short-term and the near-term and the long-term consequences of Russia will be. And I don't think he's made up his mind yet," Biden stressed. He admitted that "I don't know if Putin decided what he wants to do" - in a bit of a glaring contradiction to all the breathless admin official statements of the last two weeks asserting an "invasion" is coming. Hilariously, there was also this contradiction during the presser:

Biden: Decision to invade Ukraine "will depend on what side of bed Putin get's up on..."

Biden later: "he's calculating Russia's interests"

And here's CNN detailing his words on an "incursion" vs. major invasion:

But he suggested a "minor incursion" would elicit a lesser response than a full-scale invasion of the country.

"I'm not so sure he is certain what he is going to do. My guess is he will move in. He has to do something," Biden said, describing a leader searching for relevance in a post-Soviet world. "He is trying to find his place in the world between China and the west."

Biden's prediction of an invasion is the firmest acknowledgment to date the United States fully expects Putin to move after amassing 100,000 troops along the Ukraine border.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/biden-my-guess-russia-will-invade-ukraine-i-dont-know-if-putin-decided-what-he-wants

There you go, Vlad...a "minor incursion" (however/whoever describes that!) is the ticket!

 ::hysterical::

And in another bit of hilarious hysterical idiocy...Marxists are having major meltdowns on Tucker Carlson for having Clint Ehrlich on his show warning of the possibility of the worst conflict in Europe since WWII over DemCom desires to spite Russia...

https://youtu.be/TLrCy0Vlcy4

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/latest-tucker-carlson-ukraine-segment-sent-us-liberal-media-political-elites-meltdown

Relax you Marxist asshats, you're getting your wish...HisFraudulency already said a minor incursion may be OK...when everybody knows that can be defined differently person to person...while the rest of the sane people on the planet know minor can be major and escalation risks rise exponentially and is likely to do so when hotheads on all sides are calling the shots...so relax, your war is coming...have a spritzer or whatever it is you betas and gammas suck on and enjoy your bloody show.

PS - We know how Xi will interpret this...Taiwan, you're on the clock...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 09:57:53 AM by Libertas »
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #393 on: January 20, 2022, 06:01:52 PM »
^^^
Alexander talked for a long time about this. I only half listened.   
Apparently Biden gave away/revealed  the US bargaining positions like you said. He said what the US would do and what we would not do if Putin invades Ukraine. A massive diplomatic screw up according to Alexander.
Biden let it slip that the US and EU are deeply divided on what to do.
He also said that Biden's saying Putin is certain to invade is causing panic buying in Ukraine.  ::doh::

Any financial sanctions on Russia have to leave room for the EU to pay for the Russian gas.

https://youtu.be/6TjKHZ5FwRU
NATO Divisions Laid Bare by Biden in Bizarre Presser and Macron in EU Parliament Speech
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #394 on: January 21, 2022, 08:11:51 AM »
(While we do not deserve/need neither)...Biden and the Euro's deserve each other...

I hope the Euro's are going fetal, sucking their thumbs and failing to calm themselves with their "Orange Man Bad" mantras...   ::doublebird::

People this stupid are the only ones deserving of the coming war(s)...
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #395 on: January 21, 2022, 10:00:35 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-special-forces-continue-mission-training-troops-ukraine

Training nothing new...everybody does it...even the peace-loving Rus...but what is new is moving stuff from the Baltics to Ukraine...can the latter be properly utilized by Ukrainian troops?  If so seems logical...but a smart foe knows how to attack weak points...did JoeFraud regime & NATO clowns just make the Baltics an easier prize?  Wouldn't be hard to jump with what Russia has already in Belarus...and a quick pivot or two could find a multi-front incursion in play...

Whatever...all is well...

Tulsi Gabbard -

“As warmongers in the White House escalate tensions with Russia, let’s be real about what we’re dealing with – open conflict between two nuclear armed powers. The only place this conflict can end is the destruction of the world and life as we know it. This is what’s at stake.”

“Unfortunately, in this White House, we have warmongers and people like Jake Sullivan and Tony Blinken, who had a very strong hand in being the architects of regime change wars in Iraq, in Libya, in Syria and they’re the ones who are influencing the decisions being made by this White House”


https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1484105595569377280

Yeah well, the usurpers controlling America concede and encourage war, Putin has no fear or even a reason to fear, the Euro's are schizo on Ukraine, energy and Russia, and nobody seems interested in any kind of deal, so...war.

 ::deercorn::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #396 on: January 21, 2022, 12:38:42 PM »
An interpretation of The Summit via TPC -



Ukraine take by BB -

https://babylonbee.com/news/hitler-kicks-off-minor-incursion-into-poland
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #397 on: January 21, 2022, 01:51:10 PM »
An interpretation of The Summit via TPC -



Ukraine take by BB -

https://babylonbee.com/news/hitler-kicks-off-minor-incursion-into-poland

Could you explain the summit meme to me? I must be slow so type slowly. ;-)
It bothers me that I do not get it.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #398 on: January 21, 2022, 02:17:55 PM »
An interpretation of The Summit via TPC -



Ukraine take by BB -

https://babylonbee.com/news/hitler-kicks-off-minor-incursion-into-poland

Could you explain the summit meme to me? I must be slow so type slowly. ;-)
It bothers me that I do not get it.

Bozo Blinken hitting a bong...JoeFraud hitting a crack pipe (probably borrowed from pedo-drug addict chip off the 'ol block Hunter) in contrast to historically typical Rus nipping Stoli...
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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #399 on: January 21, 2022, 06:52:31 PM »
An interpretation of The Summit via TPC -



Ukraine take by BB -

https://babylonbee.com/news/hitler-kicks-off-minor-incursion-into-poland

Could you explain the summit meme to me? I must be slow so type slowly. ;-)
It bothers me that I do not get it.

Bozo Blinken hitting a bong...JoeFraud hitting a crack pipe (probably borrowed from pedo-drug addict chip off the 'ol block Hunter) in contrast to historically typical Rus nipping Stoli...

Thanks.
I didn't think that the US diplomacy could get any more incoherent then along came Biden.
It's like he was playing poker with Putin and showed him his cards.
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