Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 88353 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #440 on: February 11, 2022, 08:22:51 AM »


Geez. Germany and others want Russian gas so they do not freeze in the dark. How hard is that for Biden to understand?

The Germans are the ones who begged for Russia to build NS2, because they shut down their nukes or were going to after the Japanese incident. You know, because of all the tidal wave danger in Germany.  Most EU countries are telling Ukraine to not start anything because the EU will not back them up.

Reminds of an old joke. Jimmy Carter threatened to cut off the Pepsi supply to Russia after they invaded Afghanistan.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #441 on: February 11, 2022, 08:26:41 AM »


Geez. Germany and others want Russian gas so they do not freeze in the dark. How hard is that for Biden to understand?

The Germans are the ones who begged for Russia to build NS2, because they shut down their nukes or were going to after the Japanese incident. You know, because of all the tidal wave danger in Germany.  Most EU countries are telling Ukraine to not start anything because the EU will not back them up.

Reminds of an old joke. Jimmy Carter threatened to cut off the Pepsi supply to Russia after they invaded Afghanistan.

Very hard to understand...it's jello-head Joe after all...

Merkel the former commie youth secretary (and suspected Stasi snitch) and Putin the former KGB officer coming from similar experiences probably not hard to see an understanding reached, eh?

And the excuse of Germany being as tectonically unstable as The Ring of Fire should be global headline news, right?

In Soviet Russia: No Pepsi, no Coke..Vodka!!!

 ::laughonfloor::
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #442 on: February 11, 2022, 02:43:38 PM »
Rus tank and troop ships entering Black Sea, joining 4 other destroyers on 2/8...

Couple missile cruisers from Northern Fleet joining them...

Italian and French carriers with Truman in Med...

https://news.usni.org/2022/02/08/six-ship-russian-navy-amphibious-group-attack-sub-approach-black-sea-as-warships-mass-in-the-mediterranean

4 US destroyers being sent to Med 2/10...

https://news.usni.org/2022/02/10/4-east-coast-destroyers-deploy-to-europe-joining-u-s-naval-build-up

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Online ToddF

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #443 on: February 12, 2022, 10:16:06 AM »
As Brandon ramps up war talk our allies...

run away?

https://www.rt.com/russia/549164-uk-withdraw-troops-ukraine/

 ::unknowncomic::

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #444 on: February 12, 2022, 11:01:10 AM »
Hilarious...

Apparently the Under-Sec of Armed Services does not talk to the Foreign Office...probably because they are 180 degrees out of phase to each other on Ukraine...

And apparently Sandhurst grads were instructed on the principles of the retreat...just haven't seen it in action before a fight before...

Heck, even the French take a few rounds before running up the white flag!

 :P

But everybody is telling citizens and families of missions to get out...should take heed so as to not be abandoned Afghan-style...

And, remember when surveillance pics used to be shown in public and at the UN?  I guess that was so 60 years ago, eh?  Now, take the word whispered into obedient wire-service ears...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-says-russia-masses-more-troops-near-ukraine-invasion-could-come-any-time-2022-02-11/

Show these pics?  In 1962 JFK sent F-8 Crusaders over for pics so the US didn't have to disclose the capabilities of the U2 spy-plane...how hard is it to send drones and side-looking recon flights along safe-side of border areas and show this evidence in support of your claims?  Or is it more likely that muppet JoeFraud's string-pullers don't give a damn about public support?

Meanwhile, they keep deploying or discuss deploying more troops in bordering nations...

https://www.rt.com/news/549037-nato-troops-deployment-russia/

And Ukraine deploys S-300's to Donbas...

https://tass.com/world/1401611

F-16's to Romania...mulling permanent naval presence in the Black Sea...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-deploys-f-16s-romania-nato-mulls-permanent-battle-groups-black-sea-region

See, my BS-detector is chirping away steady...and then I see this...

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/593790-pentagon-under-fire-for-blocking-journalist-embeds-around-ukraine

...and the cadence in my detector ramps up.  The US in particular seems to be really wanting a tight lid on the narrative here...and this move seems obvious in that they do not want word of what troops are being told to get out.  Now, they'll say the obvious as a distraction "protecting mission security" crap but that is total misinformation since even embedded journalists cannot report out squat not approved by the theater commanders...but they do not want word of what they are being told to come out even after the fact.  That sets my BS-detector off big-time.

Bet this phone call is short...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pentagon-pulls-forces-ukraine-safety-security-biden-phones-putin

Doesn't look like anybody sees a way out of this they can accept...

And what does puppet JoeFraud do with a war that could go from hot to radioactive?

https://www.weaselzippers.us/479190-biden-snaps-selfie-on-way-to-camp-david-as-russian-invasion-looms/

Vacation, of course.

(crickets)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 01:00:07 PM by Libertas »
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #445 on: February 12, 2022, 03:04:10 PM »

I think there is way too much fear porn. I think the US govt and MIC wants war. Russia will invade only if the Kiev govt invades the Eastern provinces or Crimea. OR Ukraine joining NATO. If they join NATO.

Failing that nothing will happen. The US govt loves to provoke a war. They do not care if it further destroys Ukraine.

BTW the Duran guys reported on some UK foreign minister meeting with Lavrov. She repeatedly talked over interpreters and had to be told to slow down. She was asked if she recognized Russian cities.

At 6:30 it is reported she said UK would refused to recognize Russia's sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh. She was later informed these were large cities inside Russia. She also talked over the translators and had to be told to not do that.

https://rumble.com/vunzzf-liz-truss-train-wreck-in-moscow.-lavrov-exposes-incompetence.html
Liz Truss train wreck in Moscow. Lavrov exposes incompetence
Alex Christoforou Published February 11, 2022

In the previous week she confused the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea.

About the lack  of satellite photos.....
The Duran reported that Russia had moved troops to existing bases in Russia. News photos show new troops. They give the impression that the troops are on the Ukraine border. If they zoomed out they would show them along side existing bases.



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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #446 on: February 13, 2022, 12:46:45 PM »

The is about the OK foreign minister. The US and UK sends clowns to negotiate with Russia and Lavrov eats them for lunch.

https://twitter.com/i_nautilus/status/1491815902458884109

https://twitter.com/HighBanana/status/1491853110398046211



https://twitter.com/barrydixonok/status/1488936924760924163
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #447 on: February 13, 2022, 01:55:04 PM »
Yeah, Truss & Defense not on same page...how about giving Lavrov a better match?  Well, mostly...it just doesn't matter.

See news out of Kiev?

But the all-important and central question that's not being asked is once again: what's the view from Kiev? What is the Ukrainian government's reaction to the latest White House statements on the crisis? How about the President of Ukraine himself?

Kiev is not too happy, and is demanding proof from US intelligence backing the new dire allegations that Russia is poised to go in:

"There has been too much information about a full-scale war with Russia – even specific dates have been announced. We understand there are risks. If you have any additional information regarding the 100 percent guaranteed invasion of Ukraine by Russia on 16 February, please give it to us," Volodymyr Zelensky told reporters on Saturday.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/surreal-plot-twist-ukraines-president-demands-proof-us-over-russian-invasion-claims

Yeah, well...expect crickets.

Meanwhile the large deployments on land and sea by all sides are still in progress...and all it takes is one dummy not paying attention or given conflicting orders or having a mental breakdown...or an equipment failure or misinterpreted communication...

Fear porn?  Sure.  But given the state of the world we are in now where all governments drive media narratives...it makes it difficult to tell the wheat from the chaff...understanding how militaries work in the context of what is known and what is not is all we got.

The immediate risk is a mistake by any party. 

Plans being acted on is a huge variable.  But, look at recent evidence...past episodes of Russian aggression in Georgia and cutting off the flow of gas into Ukraine, incursion and seizures of Eastern Ukraine territory and the invasion and seizure of Crimea...didn't matter who POTUS was...did NATO respond militarily?  No.  Fundamentally, right/wrong/indifferent (more on this later) Russia sees itself as the preeminent Slavic nation to whom all are to bend the knee to without question, reservation or complaint but with rapturous gratitude and adulation...whereas the West sees bringing in the former oppressed Soviet satellites into Europe as stabilizing act that prevents any further aggression and NATO is the chosen vehicle.  There is no argument that can be made that shows the West using a pattern of military force to seize what it wants (beyond the former Yugoslavian implosion which should have been a Euro thing and not a NATO thing) but there is a steady military action pattern on the Russian side that cannot be justified except under the preeminent Slavic ruler point of view.  I would not have used NATO as the Euro vehicle for the former satellites, that should have been an all EU affair as well, the US should be out of NATO and out of Europe, period.

On the self-ordination of Russia as the preeminent Slavic ruler, this goes back a long ways...from the earliest days when Muscovites conquered the Kievian Rus down through Imperial times into the Soviet era and to the present day.  Basically it is a story of might makes right and to the victors go the writing of history along with all the spoils.  I keep coming around to these deep-seated and erroneous interpretations of Russian preeminence because they've been used by Tribal Chieftains, Monarchs, Politburos and Dictators to justify their divine right to rule absolute power over anything they've ever conquered in the past.  By such interpretations what isn't right or possible?  Absolutely nothing.

And Putin is no different than any of his predecessors.  That statement may anger or upset some, well, not my problem...I only care about accuracy in what I say.  And I am not a Russia hater any more than I am a hater of Russian people...I think there are things to admire about the nation and its people, I think if given a fairer chance at autonomy and a break from this fantasy of Russian preeminence could free them and usher in a new age for their people and remove some of the gloominess in their character which I contend is a subconscious rebellion against centuries of falsehoods and false promises. 

Anyway, you want a glimpse inside the mind of the leading proponent of Russian preeminence then read this.  It was difficult for me because I was trying to carefully comprehend and dissect practically word by word, line by line.  Make no mistake, Putin is clever, and Putin like his predecessors glommed onto and exploited this mythology as the central driving force of his leadership and goals and instilled it in all of his allies, but he did it with much more skill than any of those predecessors and tapped into that fatal flaw of the long-suffering Russian character - the cult of the Strong Man.  The Strong Man and the mythology of Russian preeminence go hand in hand, and sadly, I do not see the Russian people breaking from it, it is fed into them from birth to death for so many generations I fear there is no escape from it for them.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

According to the Russian preeminence mythos...one need not dwell on the "how" the greatest of the Slavic nations became great and dominate, it only matters that it simply "is" dominate.  In his rendition of this mythology Putin calls the ancient Rus state the "largest state in Europe", so not only is Russia the preeminent Slavic nation, it is the largest European nation.  Keep that in mind and juxtapose it with the alternating East/West flip-flopping of defining their past character as it suits them politically when examining their relations with Communist China and Mahdi cultists in Iran.  Anyway, Rus arose in Kiev, hence the term Kievian Rus.  Why doesn't Ukraine have a claim to preeminent Slavic nation?  The people of Ukraine have their own Cyrillic language, some regional dialects too...distinct from Russian.  Anyway, I will not dissect the whole thing...I would be typing all damn night...and in the end the result is the same.  No mention of "how" this preeminence was achieved, no admission of past wrongs, past slaughters...just the noble Knights of Muscovy bringing enlightened rule and prosperity to all their Slavic wards!  Just proves what I've known a long time...might makes right, might writes history...might is all that matters.

Since the Norsemen of Sweden spawned with the local Slavs in the Kiev region and began the rise of the Kievian Rus...the Swedes have the most senior land claim to all of the Slavic world.

They should assert their ancestral claim.  Free the Slavic lands from the usurping Russian despots and return it to the heirs of the conquering Norsemen!   ::hysterical::

Anyway, good luck cracking that Russian preeminence mythology!  I guess the advocates for Putin's Russia are yelling "Yes, yield to this ethos, or else!".  (Snort!)

I like being right, and I hate it.  Might makes right verified.


« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 01:59:03 PM by Libertas »
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #448 on: February 13, 2022, 04:28:20 PM »


I don't have the time to dig into this but here is what I recall.
Georgia started the conflict with Russia.
Russia did not shut off gas to Ukraine. Right now Germany buys gas from Russia from the Ukraine pipeline and allows Ukraine to take some in exchange for money. This is called "reverse flow" even though there is no such thing as running the pipeline in reverse. I cannot remember the financial details.

I agree all it takes is one big mistake to kick things off.  The MIC makes money off this. Ukraine is the big loser.

From imperfect memory. Some anarchists or nationalists try to assassinate the Archduke of Austria with bombs thrown at his motorcade but fail. Some soldiers are wounded.

The plot fails and one of the would be assassins goes into a bar on some side street to get a sandwich. The archduke decides to make a side trip to the hospital to see the wounded soldiers and makes a wrong turn and his driver has trouble getting the car into reverse. The would be assassin walks out of the bar and finds the archduke right in front of him and shoots and kills him. WWI ensues. That plot is too unreal to use in a movie but it happened. So weird stuff does happen..

We know now that at least a couple of the Syria gas attacks were fake but used by the US military as an excuse to bomb people. Libya was destroyed based on even flimsier data.  So nothing real has to happen. Just propaganda with the MSM providing cover.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #449 on: February 14, 2022, 07:55:59 AM »
Somebody else started it, I win.  Sounds like might makes right vindicated to me.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #450 on: February 14, 2022, 08:53:50 AM »
Latest news...

These Duran guys recycle Rus talking points like no other.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/zuesse-making-sense-ukraine-standoff

No point in rehashing any of that as there is only one truth in the entire article - I believe that Zelensky is doing all he can to comply with EU and not with U.S. but still stay alive.

Dude, you could have gone there without all of the attendant bullsh!t.  Zelensky isn't a moron, those are populating other governments.  He knows occupied America under JoeFraud's puppetmasters is wanting a fight to distract from their cratering domestic position and that many in Europe led by the UK are likewise inclined for the same reason, of course Zelensky is going to try to dance with the split-personality Euro's.  Congratulations Captain Obvious.

And as far as this more than reasonable request by a supposed "ally"...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/surreal-plot-twist-ukraines-president-demands-proof-us-over-russian-invasion-claims

...the last thing JoeFraud's puppetmasters want is to stabilize things...so expect lame excuses and a lackey sent in his stead.

In fact, the distraction is such an overwhelming need in US Marxists that we see this complete bullsh!t coming out of the yap of Marxist HOuse Diktator Pelosi -

“Well, I think we have to be prepared for it. And that is what the president is — yes, I do believe that he is prepared for an invasion. I also understand why the President of Ukraine wants to keep people calm and that he wants his economy not to suffer. But, on the other hand, if we were not threatening the sanctions and the rest, it would guarantee that Putin would invade. Let’s hope that diplomacy works.

It’s about diplomacy deterrence. Diplomacy deterrence. And the president’s made it very clear. There’s a big price to pay for Russia to go there. So, if Russia doesn’t invade, it’s not that he never intended to. It’s just that the sanctions worked.” … “I’m very proud of the work that the president has done.”

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/02/13/its-official-white-house-ukraine-crisis-is-manufactured-pelosi-says-if-russia-doesnt-invade-ukraine-it-proves-strength-and-brilliance-of-joe-biden-policy/

These loons are taking an early victory lap, saying they are victorious no matter what happens.  I hope people realize are deranged and dangerous this is!  It locks any US response into automatic discharge mode or else they risk being seen for the insane fools they are.  This is playing with the worst sort of fire possible!

But Zelensky should stick to his good sense, and not precipitate an excuse for Putin to act and for the West to counter.

But, all it takes is some infiltrators to start something along the border and festivities commence.

As for Russia...

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/sp-futures-surge-yields-jump-after-lavrov-says-there-way-move-forward

...Lavrov is right to advise continued dialogue, even if it is fruitless...for the same reason of not provoking anything.

As for the puppetmasters...it seems deepening NATO ties is their Grail...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-denmark-military-deal-affects-danish-national-sovereignty

...it going to take something nasty to get us unencumbered to these fricken Euro's!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 09:01:13 AM by Libertas »
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #451 on: February 14, 2022, 09:09:39 AM »
I don't follow this story on the 'news' any more. Lots of fear porn. No news.  IMO Biden wants to distract from US problems.

I will wait for any real military activity.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #452 on: February 14, 2022, 11:44:55 AM »
Snort!

https://tass.com/politics/1402899

Only Russia can move in Russia...Ukraine cannot move in Ukraine...

 ::hysterical::

PS-Russia can also move in loyal vassal Belarus, muuhahaaa!
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #453 on: February 14, 2022, 03:39:03 PM »


Geez. Germany and others want Russian gas so they do not freeze in the dark. How hard is that for Biden to understand?

The Germans are the ones who begged for Russia to build NS2, because they shut down their nukes or were going to after the Japanese incident. You know, because of all the tidal wave danger in Germany.  Most EU countries are telling Ukraine to not start anything because the EU will not back them up.

Reminds of an old joke. Jimmy Carter threatened to cut off the Pepsi supply to Russia after they invaded Afghanistan.

Very hard to understand...it's jello-head Joe after all...

Merkel the former commie youth secretary (and suspected Stasi snitch) and Putin the former KGB officer coming from similar experiences probably not hard to see an understanding reached, eh?

And the excuse of Germany being as tectonically unstable as The Ring of Fire should be global headline news, right?

In Soviet Russia: No Pepsi, no Coke..Vodka!!!

 ::laughonfloor::

I just learned something about Putin. He did not run spooks in Berlin. He was essentially an in house lawyer. I thought he was a spy or spymaster.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #454 on: February 14, 2022, 04:23:22 PM »


Geez. Germany and others want Russian gas so they do not freeze in the dark. How hard is that for Biden to understand?

The Germans are the ones who begged for Russia to build NS2, because they shut down their nukes or were going to after the Japanese incident. You know, because of all the tidal wave danger in Germany.  Most EU countries are telling Ukraine to not start anything because the EU will not back them up.

Reminds of an old joke. Jimmy Carter threatened to cut off the Pepsi supply to Russia after they invaded Afghanistan.

Very hard to understand...it's jello-head Joe after all...

Merkel the former commie youth secretary (and suspected Stasi snitch) and Putin the former KGB officer coming from similar experiences probably not hard to see an understanding reached, eh?

And the excuse of Germany being as tectonically unstable as The Ring of Fire should be global headline news, right?

In Soviet Russia: No Pepsi, no Coke..Vodka!!!

 ::laughonfloor::

I just learned something about Putin. He did not run spooks in Berlin. He was essentially an in house lawyer. I thought he was a spy or spymaster.


See "zampolit"  ;)
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #455 on: February 14, 2022, 09:57:22 PM »
C-BS says "Russians moving into attack positions.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-attack-by-end-week/

Pretty sure C-BS could discern an attack position if Dan Rather was standing behind them with his pants around his ankles...

Likely Sullivan BS.

Zelensky declares the day of the supposed attack (the 16th) as "a day of unity"...

https://thehill.com/policy/international/594151-zelensky-says-ukraine-has-been-informed-feb-16-will-be-day-of-attack

...if anything probably a floated date by Sullivan too, given that he would know first hand Jello-head JoeFraud's talk with Putin and Saturday was the exepected fustercluck..

Don't get the joke part though...

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/02/zelensky-makes-confusing-joke-about-russian-invasion.html

...war ain't pretty...it's brutal and nasty...unless you're doing it wrong...

Well, probably another jab both directions...I could see him getting frustrated and lashing out East and West.  Can't say I blame him...
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #456 on: February 15, 2022, 06:47:24 AM »
^^^^^
Someone said that Putin does not have to invade to destroy Ukraine. People in Ukraine are getting exhausted with the US pushing the fear porn. If Russia wants to crank up the exhaustion all they have to do is drive their troops around in circles  on their side of the border for a couple hours.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #457 on: February 15, 2022, 08:34:45 AM »
^^^^^
Someone said that Putin does not have to invade to destroy Ukraine. People in Ukraine are getting exhausted with the US pushing the fear porn. If Russia wants to crank up the exhaustion all they have to do is drive their troops around in circles  on their side of the border for a couple hours.

Actually...no.

It appears Putin is having units RTB.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/russia-withdraws-troops-ukraine-border-after-media-said-invasion-was-imminent

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/amid-skepticism-russia-publishes-video-tanks-leaving-ukrainian-border-stoltenberg

Russia saying Western propaganda proven false...West saying they are cautiously optimistic...no doubt JoeFraud and the rest of the Demonscat Party will be doing another victory lap...

In the end, nothing has changed since all these exercises have commenced...and the risk of war and the hope of peace remain precariously balanced on a teeny-tiny point...
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Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #458 on: February 15, 2022, 10:05:41 AM »
^^^^^
Someone said that Putin does not have to invade to destroy Ukraine. People in Ukraine are getting exhausted with the US pushing the fear porn. If Russia wants to crank up the exhaustion all they have to do is drive their troops around in circles  on their side of the border for a couple hours.

Actually...no.

It appears Putin is having units RTB.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/russia-withdraws-troops-ukraine-border-after-media-said-invasion-was-imminent

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/amid-skepticism-russia-publishes-video-tanks-leaving-ukrainian-border-stoltenberg

Russia saying Western propaganda proven false...West saying they are cautiously optimistic...no doubt JoeFraud and the rest of the Demonscat Party will be doing another victory lap...

In the end, nothing has changed since all these exercises have commenced...and the risk of war and the hope of peace remain precariously balanced on a teeny-tiny point...

From your link
Paul Joseph Watson
I bet this won't age well.
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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #459 on: February 15, 2022, 10:48:19 AM »
Yup!  And give Zelensky credit for outing JoeFraud's 2/16 invasion date and mocking it...and giving Putin the heads up to RTB exercise units to rub it in.  Demonscats can crow all they want about getting Putin to pull back when what happened was Zelensky peed on his supposed invasion date, but watch, Demoscats will take a victory lap without addressing reality.
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