Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine

[patentlymn]

The pumped $5B into Ukraine and backed a military coup which set this whole thing off. IMO the US backed regime change in both Belarus and Kazakhstan within the last year. Both failed. Ukraine never had control of the nukes BTW. That was in Moscow. Always. The physical nukes were in Ukraine but control was in Moscow.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[2][3]

[Libertas]

The US claiming that there is a Russian blockade of Ukrainian ports.
I do not believe that is true. I recall that Turkey is pissed because Ukraine mines the black sea.
https://www.america-times.com/statement-by-permanent-representative-vassily-nebenzia-at-un-security-council-open-debate-conflict-and-food-security/
Statement by Permanent Representative Vassily Nebenzia at UN Security Council open debate “Conflict and food security”
By
America Times News Service
May 20, 2022
...
An important factor is the leap over to green energy that is being imposed on the entire world instead of a thoroughly considered smooth energy transition, to say nothing of straight-up politicizing of energy cooperation by some states. As a result, energy projects were abandoned recklessly and energy prices spiked. In 2020-2022 oil prices increased by more than 22 %, affecting fuel for farm machinery and agricultural carriers, as well as electricity for food industry. Gas price also went record high – in December 2021 gas spot price reached a psychological benchmark of 2,000 dollars for a thousand cubic meters, even though Russia enhanced deliveries. This led up to an unprecedented increase of prices for mineral fertilizers in December 2021: carbamide and saltpeter prices multiplied by 3.5-4, prices for other fertilizers increased two- or threefold.
...
You say that we allegedly block opportunities for exporting agricultural products from Ukraine by sea. Truth is however that it is Ukraine and not Russia who has blocked 75 vessels from 17 states in the ports of Nikolaev, Kherson, Chernomorsk, Mariupol, Ochakov, Odessa, and Yuzhniy and has mined the waterways. How can we be talking about grain exports? Russia’s armed forces daily open a humanitarian corridor, which is a safe passageway for vessels leading in the south-western direction from Ukraine’s territorial waters. As for Kiev, it evades interacting with foreign states who operate those vessels to solve the issue of their safe exit to the rendezvous area. 

Well, I'll focus on the Black Sea issue...say Vassily is correct on the mines...I thought Russia basically absconded with the bulk of the Ukrainian Navy when it seized Crimea...so these mines were laid before Crimea was seized?  Meaning they mined what was previously theirs that became theirs?  Or are they admitting what little Ukraine has left allowed them to mine significant sections of the Black Sea coastal area and Russia was powerless to stop them and/or has no/little minesweeping capability?  Maybe they intended to do nothing about them...?

Anyway, the blame game is pointless...if not for an invasion, there'd be a fertilizer deliveries and harvests...if not for Russian-speaking-peoples^TM there would be no separatists bitching about having to speak Ukrainian in Ukrainian borders (like racist capitalist Americans insist on English, eh?)...if not for throwing Budapest aside Minsk 1/2 may not have been thrown aside...if not for Trump and America being the worst victims of fraud in history, perhaps none of this would have happened...if not for Soviet domination... ... ... ...

IMO it does not take much to lay mines. Small coastal patrol boats will do. Ukraine controls Odessa. Russia has mine sweepers but I imagine it is hard to catch them all. Turkey says Ukraine is laying mines and they drift into waters near Turkey.

It would be nice to know the names and places of the ships allegedly blockaded. If true it could be negotiated fast. But Ukraine hates even being in the same room with vermin and sub humans. Such direct meetings were promised in Minsk but Ukraine does not believe in that.

I recall 75% of the Ukrainian navy defected to Russia.
IMO little of the US billions spent on Ukraine was invested there. Most is in Swiss banks accounts I'll bet.
Western mercs report that they had a hard time getting rifles and ammo.

Grain shortages may be the result of something else.

I respect the Duran and they respect Jacob Dreizin. He predicted a year of famine in 2022 back in Nov 2021 and updated Dec 2021. Why? Green energy policies, less nat gas for fertilizers. Sanctions on Belarus. etc. Who to blame? Now May 2022 we will blame Putin of course.


https://thedreizinreport.com/2021/11/16/the-famine-year-approaches/
 The Famine Year Approaches

Published by dreizinreport on November 16, 2021

Russia sells nat gas to Ukraine even now. I see no reason why they would not sell fertilizer if they have it to sell.
Ukraine controls the upstream part of a northern nat gas pipeline from  Russia. Russia controls some downstream part. After Russia started diverting some Russian gas to the Donbass Kiev shut it off upstream, ending 1/3 of the gas to Germany with it.

After Crimea voted to rejoin Russia Kiev dammed the source of 90% of water to Crimea. This ended much agriculture in Crimea. A naval blockade seems more in keeping with Kiev's recent actions than Russia's. Still, a 'news' organization might ask Kiev and Moscow to detail their accusations of a blockade.

If true then it means the Ukes control the sea better than the Russians...

If I ran Ukraine I reckon I would exploit that, acquire more assets and raise a lot of heck all along the coast...

[Libertas]

The pumped $5B into Ukraine and backed a military coup which set this whole thing off. IMO the US backed regime change in both Belarus and Kazakhstan within the last year. Both failed. Ukraine never had control of the nukes BTW. That was in Moscow. Always. The physical nukes were in Ukraine but control was in Moscow.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[2][3]

And they all violated it...

But, so what?   It appears nobody cares either...so, its all barking at the wind...

See?

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russian-soldier-given-life-sentence-ukraines-first-war-crimes-trial

Tit...then Tat...

Follow the script...

[Libertas]

Damn...

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/pentagon-chief-says-ukraine-get-harpoon-anti-ship-missiles-denmark

...they reading my stuff?

And after the Godfather of Realpolitik urged negotiation to the status quo within the next 2 months to avoid a direct conflict with Russia...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/blue-checks-furious-after-henry-kissinger-says-ukraine-should-cede-territory-peace

...the blue-check Marxists want nothing to do with peaceful reesolution.

The script continues to be played out to the nightmare conclusion...

[patentlymn]

The pumped $5B into Ukraine and backed a military coup which set this whole thing off. IMO the US backed regime change in both Belarus and Kazakhstan within the last year. Both failed. Ukraine never had control of the nukes BTW. That was in Moscow. Always. The physical nukes were in Ukraine but control was in Moscow.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[2][3]

And they all violated it...

But, so what?   It appears nobody cares either...so, its all barking at the wind...

See?

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russian-soldier-given-life-sentence-ukraines-first-war-crimes-trial

Tit...then Tat...

Follow the script...

I don't think the guy was treated as a POW but a criminal.

Did the US violate Minsk with the various coups and coup attempts in those three countries?

[Libertas]

The pumped $5B into Ukraine and backed a military coup which set this whole thing off. IMO the US backed regime change in both Belarus and Kazakhstan within the last year. Both failed. Ukraine never had control of the nukes BTW. That was in Moscow. Always. The physical nukes were in Ukraine but control was in Moscow.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[2][3]

And they all violated it...

But, so what?   It appears nobody cares either...so, its all barking at the wind...

See?

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russian-soldier-given-life-sentence-ukraines-first-war-crimes-trial

Tit...then Tat...

Follow the script...

I don't think the guy was treated as a POW but a criminal.

Did the US violate Minsk with the various coups and coup attempts in those three countries?

I dunno, did anybody press a case in The Hague at the ICC or ICJ?  Did the UNSC sanction the US?

Anybody else see cases pressed against any major powers in the modern era?   

[Libertas]

In other news...

Likely there's currently intense Russian diplomacy being aimed at the Turkish government arguing that Finland especially, which shares an over 800-mile long border with Russia, must not be admitted into the Western military alliance.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/finland-sweden-dispatch-teams-turkey-after-erdogan-said-dont-even-bother

No!

/

Me personally would have no problem telling Turkey to go screw itself...they call any Kurd a terrorist...I would take a Kurd over a Turk any day.

I would kick Turkey out of NATO...let them embrace Russia, WTF do I care what they do?  Russians love all the dregs of the planet...why are we not letting them have them?

Anyway, expect most members to kiss Turk ass...in their hatred and greed they think they cannot function without them at the Eastern gate...

Whatever...

And, this cannot happen unless the Russians are as impotent in their lake as I question they are -

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/uk-backs-lithuanias-plan-naval-protective-corridor-lift-russian-blockade-ukraine-ports

I suspect the Russians will bitch...but allow the Western devils to clear the mines they cannot.

[Libertas]

More Russian threats of initiating thermonuclear war...

https://www.infowars.com/posts/russia-threatens-to-annihilate-u-s-with-4-satan-ii-missiles-over-ukraine-proxy-war/

...no, we have enough Satan going on with an illegitimate occupation government and corrupt institutions thank you!   

[patentlymn]

More Russian threats of initiating thermonuclear war...

https://www.infowars.com/posts/russia-threatens-to-annihilate-u-s-with-4-satan-ii-missiles-over-ukraine-proxy-war/

...no, we have enough Satan going on with an illegitimate occupation government and corrupt institutions thank you!   

At least this is just the RU MSM not Putin talking. He is much more measured in his use of words.
UA has been shelling civilian areas with no dual use or military presence for 8 years. They recently used a US M777 howitzer to shell Donetsk city I believe. That is what they refer to.

[Libertas]

Commanders have abandoned their troops in the Eastern provinces...pretty strong indication the status quo is the new reality...

Kinda sad, troops are willing...leadership is garbage...

They ought to nominate their own commanding officer and fallback to more defensible and supplied areas if they were smart...otherwise they are going to be target practice for Russians and their separatist pals...

Anywho, saw this, had to chuckle...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/europol-warns-weapons-shipped-ukraine-could-be-used-criminal-groups-years

Happens in every conflict...especially proxy wars...and apparently some are forgetful of Biden's Afghanistan & Good Time Charlie who armed the Mujahideen...Clinton and Bosnia & Kosovo...Carter and Iranian fustercluck...Nixon (inherited from LBJ) & Vietnam...

And, how did all those AK's and RPG's etc ever fall into others hands?  Purchased and donated...

Monkey's toss their pooh, film at 11...

 

[Libertas]

More Russian threats of initiating thermonuclear war...

https://www.infowars.com/posts/russia-threatens-to-annihilate-u-s-with-4-satan-ii-missiles-over-ukraine-proxy-war/

...no, we have enough Satan going on with an illegitimate occupation government and corrupt institutions thank you!   

At least this is just the RU MSM not Putin talking. He is much more measured in his use of words.
UA has been shelling civilian areas with no dual use or military presence for 8 years. They recently used a US M777 howitzer to shell Donetsk city I believe. That is what they refer to.

Yah, well their media is state run...just like 95% of ours...

I reckon a howitzer shell is about all the ammo they got left...hard to get anything through to the front...the gauntlet of corruption being what it is...as always war zones often see flocks of vultures to prey on anybody and everybody...

[patentlymn]

More Russian threats of initiating thermonuclear war...

https://www.infowars.com/posts/russia-threatens-to-annihilate-u-s-with-4-satan-ii-missiles-over-ukraine-proxy-war/

...no, we have enough Satan going on with an illegitimate occupation government and corrupt institutions thank you!   

At least this is just the RU MSM not Putin talking. He is much more measured in his use of words.
UA has been shelling civilian areas with no dual use or military presence for 8 years. They recently used a US M777 howitzer to shell Donetsk city I believe. That is what they refer to.

Yah, well their media is state run...just like 95% of ours...

I reckon a howitzer shell is about all the ammo they got left...hard to get anything through to the front...the gauntlet of corruption being what it is...as always war zones often see flocks of vultures to prey on anybody and everybody...

I understand that heavy weapons have been making it from Poland into Ukraine and even to the front. The big problem with the MLRS systems is the massive numbers of missiles and support they require. Also training. The guy at New Atlas reads from US DOD manuals describing the logistics and training the US requires.  IMO any huge hits to Russian infrastructure inside Russia might mean lights out in Kiev.

[Libertas]

More Russian threats of initiating thermonuclear war...

https://www.infowars.com/posts/russia-threatens-to-annihilate-u-s-with-4-satan-ii-missiles-over-ukraine-proxy-war/

...no, we have enough Satan going on with an illegitimate occupation government and corrupt institutions thank you!   

At least this is just the RU MSM not Putin talking. He is much more measured in his use of words.
UA has been shelling civilian areas with no dual use or military presence for 8 years. They recently used a US M777 howitzer to shell Donetsk city I believe. That is what they refer to.

Yah, well their media is state run...just like 95% of ours...

I reckon a howitzer shell is about all the ammo they got left...hard to get anything through to the front...the gauntlet of corruption being what it is...as always war zones often see flocks of vultures to prey on anybody and everybody...

I understand that heavy weapons have been making it from Poland into Ukraine and even to the front. The big problem with the MLRS systems is the massive numbers of missiles and support they require. Also training. The guy at New Atlas reads from US DOD manuals describing the logistics and training the US requires.  IMO any huge hits to Russian infrastructure inside Russia might mean lights out in Kiev.

It is my understanding that the occupation government even realized it was stupid to give them anything more than short range for that very reason...and my earlier post about them being poorly equipped and trained seems to bear out that...and yours that they are dropping short range stuff when overrun/shelled heavily.

It's a fustercluck.  The time to arm and train is before the enemy invades, and even a first year plebe knows that...

This was a hurry-up/slap-shod clown show all the way...

[Libertas]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/milley-says-using-military-open-ukrainian-ports-would-be-high-risk

High risk...uhh huh...

Well, the low risk is letting the greedy NATO (heh) partner Turks broker an arrangement...

What a circus...

And lack of effort to control this...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russia-uses-chinese-ships-and-indian-refiners-stay-ahead-oil-sanctions

...and instead being arm-chair gameboys with this...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-engaged-offensive-cyber-ops-against-russia-ukraine-nsa-director-admits-first

...indicates a weakness of effort that will fail to achieve victory.  I mean if they were serious...they'd be sabotaging those Chinese ships and Indian refineries...they think they can win this contest by remote control...

...and do not fall for that Russian mid-term hype...it is Russia Hoax Redux...not worth a sack of scat...

...target the Pentagoons?  Sure.  But the DemCom's will waste any amount of taxpayer funds to make sure only they can control the corrupt election machines...

[Libertas]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/invasion-enters-100th-day-russia-now-holds-20-ukraine-zelensky

[patentlymn]

 I have one huge problem with the ideas to ending the 'Russian blockade' of Ukrainian ports. I do not believe such a blockade exists. I have never seen a single example of such a blockade. I only see the blockade in headlines. Is there one example of a Russian warship stopping exit of a Ukrainian grain ship?

I read that the Russians are announcing daily corridors through the black sea for ships. The Russian MOD recently said they would provide corridors from Ukrainian controlled ports once the mines are removed.

Ukraine said they had mined waters outside Odessa to prevent a Russian landing. The there were reports from Turkey that Ukrainian mines were drifting all over the black sea some as far as Turkey. Ukraine blamed Russian mines.

Ukrainian TV showed UA soldiers deactivating a mine that washed up on an Odessa beach. The had blurred out the lettering on the mine. 

Here is just one example. There is a Turkish ship stuck in a harbor that would have to pass through Ukrainian controlled waters to reach the black sea. The captain says that the problems is the mines in the waterway to the sea.

Also, is there an embargo on wheat from Russian ships? Maybe in some countries but not others? If so it would seem the blockade is from the west. Is the west starving people to harm Russia?

https://youtu.be/iyVSCUBrFTk?t=753
Ships Held Captive In Kherson Ukraine Port. See How
11,125 views
Jun 3, 2022
In Russian Controlled Kherson Region Ukraine there are many civilian ships that can not leave to the Black sea. In this report The captain of a Turkish ship in the port and Russian Soldiers explain why they can not leave the port and go to the Black sea.

I remember when OPEC was formed and some oil embargo. Now we have a self imposed Russian oil embargo.
I remember a scene in Blazing Saddles where the black sheriff pulls out a gun, points it at his own head, says to what he says or the n*gger gets it. 

[Libertas]

I have one huge problem with the ideas to ending the 'Russian blockade' of Ukrainian ports. I do not believe such a blockade exists. I have never seen a single example of such a blockade. I only see the blockade in headlines. Is there one example of a Russian warship stopping exit of a Ukrainian grain ship?

I read that the Russians are announcing daily corridors through the black sea for ships. The Russian MOD recently said they would provide corridors from Ukrainian controlled ports once the mines are removed.

Ukraine said they had mined waters outside Odessa to prevent a Russian landing. The there were reports from Turkey that Ukrainian mines were drifting all over the black sea some as far as Turkey. Ukraine blamed Russian mines.

Ukrainian TV showed UA soldiers deactivating a mine that washed up on an Odessa beach. The had blurred out the lettering on the mine. 

Here is just one example. There is a Turkish ship stuck in a harbor that would have to pass through Ukrainian controlled waters to reach the black sea. The captain says that the problems is the mines in the waterway to the sea.

Also, is there an embargo on wheat from Russian ships? Maybe in some countries but not others? If so it would seem the blockade is from the west. Is the west starving people to harm Russia?

https://youtu.be/iyVSCUBrFTk?t=753
Ships Held Captive In Kherson Ukraine Port. See How
11,125 views
Jun 3, 2022
In Russian Controlled Kherson Region Ukraine there are many civilian ships that can not leave to the Black sea. In this report The captain of a Turkish ship in the port and Russian Soldiers explain why they can not leave the port and go to the Black sea.

I remember when OPEC was formed and some oil embargo. Now we have a self imposed Russian oil embargo.
I remember a scene in Blazing Saddles where the black sheriff pulls out a gun, points it at his own head, says to what he says or the n*gger gets it.

That's what they want the Western devils to do...make it easier for them to say "see!" gotchya, right, wrong or indifferent...

[patentlymn]

https://t.me/EurasianChoice/14674
Poles told to gather firewood.

[Libertas]

Yes, it is the age where people have to be told what to do...rather than just know what to do and do it...   

Nobody should be dependent upon anybody else...

Works for people, communities...and yes even nations.

[patentlymn]

I agree with the quote below but wonder if Ukr is holding back good troops somewhere, maybe Kiev.
From what I understand.....

Ukr military wanted to pull out from Severodonetsk to a more defensible position as they prefer live soldiers to dead soldiers. Zelensky over ruled them as he wants glorious wins for his PR battles. So Ukr keeps feeding fresh meat into a Russian meat grinder. Russia is happy to oblige.

Does Biden admin want to keep the war going until the fall elections? Do they want to put off total Ukr collapse until then?


Among Friends
6 minutes ago
Current events are all highly reminiscent of late eastern front WWII. You have a drug crazed "leader" issuing irrational and self-destructive military orders while running propaganda mill churning out lies and hopium; a weak general staff; a military whose best troops have been decimated (at least) and is relying on volkssturm to fill gaps; mixed kampfgruppe deployed in place of coherent units; tactical counteroffensives leading to units getting wiped out; troop concentrations hopelessly encircled; a trickle of heavy weapons to replace massive amounts destroyed; complete loss of air support; expensive underperforming wunderwaffe like Javelins; and a rapidly failing logistics chain.