Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine  (Read 88155 times)

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Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #900 on: August 01, 2022, 09:36:21 AM »


I fell asleep to this, Russia haters will not like this snap of Gorky Park in Moscow a few days ago. Is this what your city looks like? Watch it and weep.

https://youtu.be/SAWUf7CPCK4?t=892
Moscow LIVE. Gorky Park. Friday Dancing
51,969 views Streamed live on Jul 22, 2022 Wandering around Gorky Park in Moscow, Russia.
Friday Jul, 22 2022

Sure.  Had a street dance in a small Wisconsin town over the 4th...

We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #901 on: August 01, 2022, 09:41:09 AM »

This is depressing. Imagine an American city looking like this. Some used to I guess.
Where do they hide the ugly women?
Where is the 'diversity'?
How are those sanctions working out?

https://youtu.be/0zeqQh6ECgU

 Moscow LIVE. Patriki - Tverskaya - Kuznetskiy Most - Nikolskaya
41,189 views  Streamed live on Jul 23, 2022  Wandering around Moscow city center. 24 Jul 2022

You missed some burly babushka's...

Plus, cannot compare the clean parts of Moscow (or better yet the more western/cosmopolitan St. Petersburg) to American sh*thole cities in their sh*ttier parts...come on, man!

Go to those smaller towns in Russia, especially moving east...by the time you hit the Pacific if you aren't depressed you must be gobbling Prozac...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #902 on: August 01, 2022, 09:56:18 AM »
Seattle used to look sorta similar (not that many pretty girls!).

The formula was remarkably simple: Take a visually stunning background (The Puget Sound inland waterway, the Olympic mountain range to the west, and the Cascade mountain range to the east) and then add world class architecture provided by the Olmsted Brothers (whose father designed New York's Central Park among other treasures). Then feature all sorts of public events to gather people around and you have scenes like the Moscow video.

That's what I grew up enjoying. There was seemingly no end of things to do.

It's all but gone now. The progs have ruined it - all of it.

You literally couldn't film a similar video in Seattle now without bangers or gangsters or wandering crackheads or homeless bums intruding into the frame. The social scene was on life support when the coof visited itself on us. Our betters choked the life out of every diversionary entertainment. None survives. They still attempt some activities but they are all "look but don't touch" counterfeits that a suffocating "social distancing" restriction that has succeeded in making neurotics of all of us.

I live in a medium city about 30 miles to the south of Seattle. It's a working town so not much on the picturesque or frivolous here. When my parents moved here in the late 1980's it still had the quaint charm of (conservative) SmallTown USA. One could still do modest social events that leaned on good-natured neighborly instincts with an emphasis on informality, blue jeans and a solid work ethic. All that died several years ago when leftists gained control of the Mayor and City Council. They tried to turn us into some sort of Woke circle-jerk. Now it's a lot like the rust-belt - everything in decline and no one gives a damn.

I know that I don't.

The Moscow street videos made me very sad for what was lost in the US.
That is what civilization looks like.
I imagine anti US propaganda over seas consists of clips from the US evening news.
No need to write their own false propaganda when we make our own.

On occasion I would watch amateur travel videos that included street scenes and travel scenes.
Most of those places would not put up with the crap that we put up with.
Lots or stuff from the ADVChiina guys when they lived in China.
There is a NZ guy Indigo Traveller who traveled through Iran. Included a long hitch hiking part.
Parts had local guides. It seemed very civilized.
If he had been a citizen of the US ('the great Satan') he would have needed a govt approved minder.

Very long ago I was waiting for a ferry in Brindisi Italy. It had the feel of America around 1900 with a quaint town square. Some sort of festival was coming up. Old small town America. Then I saw the flags. Hammer and sickle. The local govt was communist party. Totally blew my mind. I could never process that.

https://youtu.be/HgEqlOFs56Q
WALKING STREETS OF IRAN 🇮🇷 (Met Local Girl)

https://youtu.be/6TleZuubucU
CRAZY HITCHHIKING IRAN 🇮🇷 (11 Cars/500 KM in One Day)

You might enjoy this...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/russian-embassy-just-released-new-video-mocking-west-time-move-russia-traditional-values-christianity-no-cancel-culture/

...to me it is a double-insult...

...insult #1 - kicking us when our oppressors have us down, but it is to be expected...

...insult #2 IMO is worse...like Russian pooh doesn't stink!  Swell, your not woke, not DemoCommie woke...maybe Ruling Russian Elite woke though...yeah, you don't overtly push one race over another (though I don't know if the more Asian/indigenously ethnic would agree in total), you shun gays/trans and all that, push nuclear families and traditional roles, swell...cheap natural resources you do not punish...swell...but it is our oppressors pushing all the crap, not us the oppressed...thanks for ignoring the distinction, assholes!  All in the face of what they don't tell you...like they are trying to impose here, they've already imposed there - one party rule, no vocal opposition allowed, that sh*t gets jailed or snuffed...and in addition to the noble exports of energy, vodka, caviar and ballet...there is the seedier exports of organized crime trafficking just about everything, arms sales to the worst regimes on the planet...and lots of prostitutes.  And hospitality?  Watch those videos I posted long ago about the Russian girl vlogging about suburbs of Moscow, how people avoid eye contact, rarely offer greetings...or even smile!  They've asked foreign tourists why they came to Russia!

Anyway...I'm beating a dead horse...surprised it has any flesh left...there is no perfect, anywhere...everything has blemishes, taints...the little dirty truths...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #903 on: August 01, 2022, 12:41:23 PM »
...

You might enjoy this...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/russian-embassy-just-released-new-video-mocking-west-time-move-russia-traditional-values-christianity-no-cancel-culture/

...to me it is a double-insult...

...insult #1 - kicking us when our oppressors have us down, but it is to be expected...

...insult #2 IMO is worse...like Russian pooh doesn't stink!  Swell, your not woke, not DemoCommie woke...maybe Ruling Russian Elite woke though...yeah, you don't overtly push one race over another (though I don't know if the more Asian/indigenously ethnic would agree in total), you shun gays/trans and all that, push nuclear families and traditional roles, swell...cheap natural resources you do not punish...swell...but it is our oppressors pushing all the crap, not us the oppressed...thanks for ignoring the distinction, assholes!  All in the face of what they don't tell you...like they are trying to impose here, they've already imposed there - one party rule, no vocal opposition allowed, that sh*t gets jailed or snuffed...and in addition to the noble exports of energy, vodka, caviar and ballet...there is the seedier exports of organized crime trafficking just about everything, arms sales to the worst regimes on the planet...and lots of prostitutes.  And hospitality?  Watch those videos I posted long ago about the Russian girl vlogging about suburbs of Moscow, how people avoid eye contact, rarely offer greetings...or even smile!  They've asked foreign tourists why they came to Russia!

Anyway...I'm beating a dead horse...surprised it has any flesh left...there is no perfect, anywhere...everything has blemishes, taints...the little dirty truths...

There are video blogs from people who stayed in Russia for a while. They all say Russians don't smile much.
 The one minute Russian video is definitely trolling and propaganda but well done at that.
Who said Russia was perfect? No one.  They have promoted  ideals and values they fail to meet. That is true everywhere and goes unsaid most of the time as everyone knows it. I do not know the culture or ideals of Iran but because humans are involved I am certain they fail to meet them and there is corruption and .....


I watched some "Lost in Moscow" street videos on youtube. I was surprised. There are videos of people going to rural Russian villages. Isolated and very run down. Poor. Aged. Most will die when the old folks die but there will be dachas near larger cities.

I do not know much about Russia but that last source I would trust is the US MSM or govt. I know for a fact they lie 24/7 in areas I know about. I expect them to  push some narrative about Russia that may or may not be true.

BTW reminded me of a Russian movie Brat. Made for almost no money. I liked it but remember none of it.
https://youtu.be/iw6cDYEd8Dw
 Brat (Brother with subtitles 1/8)
1,225,009 views  Apr 12, 2013  You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/user/CTBFilm
Web: http://www.ctb.ru
Title: Brat (Brother with subtitles 1/8)
After military service Danila Bagrov have returned to his home town. But boring life of Russian province didn't suit  him and he decided to go to Saint Petersburg, where his elder brother was living for several years. Danila found his brother. But everything was not so easy - his brother was a killer.
The film went on to quotations and soundtracks. For audience  Danila has become a hero of the time -- in 90s Russia, film has made an influence on the whole russian cinematograth.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #904 on: August 01, 2022, 12:48:33 PM »
...

You might enjoy this...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/russian-embassy-just-released-new-video-mocking-west-time-move-russia-traditional-values-christianity-no-cancel-culture/

...to me it is a double-insult...

...insult #1 - kicking us when our oppressors have us down, but it is to be expected...

...insult #2 IMO is worse...like Russian pooh doesn't stink!  Swell, your not woke, not DemoCommie woke...maybe Ruling Russian Elite woke though...yeah, you don't overtly push one race over another (though I don't know if the more Asian/indigenously ethnic would agree in total), you shun gays/trans and all that, push nuclear families and traditional roles, swell...cheap natural resources you do not punish...swell...but it is our oppressors pushing all the crap, not us the oppressed...thanks for ignoring the distinction, assholes!  All in the face of what they don't tell you...like they are trying to impose here, they've already imposed there - one party rule, no vocal opposition allowed, that sh*t gets jailed or snuffed...and in addition to the noble exports of energy, vodka, caviar and ballet...there is the seedier exports of organized crime trafficking just about everything, arms sales to the worst regimes on the planet...and lots of prostitutes.  And hospitality?  Watch those videos I posted long ago about the Russian girl vlogging about suburbs of Moscow, how people avoid eye contact, rarely offer greetings...or even smile!  They've asked foreign tourists why they came to Russia!

Anyway...I'm beating a dead horse...surprised it has any flesh left...there is no perfect, anywhere...everything has blemishes, taints...the little dirty truths...

There are video blogs from people who stayed in Russia for a while. They all say Russians don't smile much.
 The one minute Russian video is definitely trolling and propaganda but well done at that.
Who said Russia was perfect? No one.  They have promoted  ideals and values they fail to meet. That is true everywhere and goes unsaid most of the time as everyone knows it. I do not know the culture or ideals of Iran but because humans are involved I am certain they fail to meet them and there is corruption and .....


I watched some "Lost in Moscow" street videos on youtube. I was surprised. There are videos of people going to rural Russian villages. Isolated and very run down. Poor. Aged. Most will die when the old folks die but there will be dachas near larger cities.

I do not know much about Russia but that last source I would trust is the US MSM or govt. I know for a fact they lie 24/7 in areas I know about. I expect them to  push some narrative about Russia that may or may not be true.

BTW reminded me of a Russian movie Brat. Made for almost no money. I liked it but remember none of it.
https://youtu.be/iw6cDYEd8Dw
 Brat (Brother with subtitles 1/8)
1,225,009 views  Apr 12, 2013  You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/user/CTBFilm
Web: http://www.ctb.ru
Title: Brat (Brother with subtitles 1/8)
After military service Danila Bagrov have returned to his home town. But boring life of Russian province didn't suit  him and he decided to go to Saint Petersburg, where his elder brother was living for several years. Danila found his brother. But everything was not so easy - his brother was a killer.
The film went on to quotations and soundtracks. For audience  Danila has become a hero of the time -- in 90s Russia, film has made an influence on the whole russian cinematograth.

Yeah, trusting any government to be honest with its people or themselves is a foolish thing.  Most of the "official" chatter is aimed either at blowing smoke at foreigners, your citizens or both...

The lack of tolerance for BS and the intelligence to discern it are the only factors that can increase or decrease it....
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #905 on: August 01, 2022, 12:52:31 PM »

This is depressing. Imagine an American city looking like this. Some used to I guess.
Where do they hide the ugly women?
Where is the 'diversity'?
How are those sanctions working out?

https://youtu.be/0zeqQh6ECgU

 Moscow LIVE. Patriki - Tverskaya - Kuznetskiy Most - Nikolskaya
41,189 views  Streamed live on Jul 23, 2022  Wandering around Moscow city center. 24 Jul 2022

You missed some burly babushka's...

Plus, cannot compare the clean parts of Moscow (or better yet the more western/cosmopolitan St. Petersburg) to American sh*thole cities in their sh*ttier parts...come on, man!

Go to those smaller towns in Russia, especially moving east...by the time you hit the Pacific if you aren't depressed you must be gobbling Prozac...

If I depended on the US MSM I would think that China, Vietnam, and Russia are depressed hellscapes run by dictators. People with video cameras walk around and talk to people and that no longer rings true.   I never got the impression they were utopias or anything close.

I have watched several videos from the east in Russia from several sources. Lots of isolated, poor, depressed villages.
Here is one from some village.
https://youtu.be/_0lql3prvnI

https://youtu.be/BpZHXmrfjLg

When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #906 on: August 01, 2022, 01:04:01 PM »
...

Yeah, trusting any government to be honest with its people or themselves is a foolish thing.  Most of the "official" chatter is aimed either at blowing smoke at foreigners, your citizens or both...

The lack of tolerance for BS and the intelligence to discern it are the only factors that can increase or decrease it....

I know the US govt and MSM lie about man made climate change, green energy, Jan. 6, covid, vaccines, masks, etc. When the DC/fed cops shot Miriam Carey 5 times in the back through her rear car window I watched the US govt and MSM generate false propaganda in real time, smear her, hide or destroy evidence, then bury the story.

In Ukraine I tried to find both sides to the story and the best ones at that. Scott Horton at anti-war.com had the best providing the Russian side IMO. I waited to hear what the Ukr people recently conquered/liberated by the Russians would say. What they report is nothing like what we hear in the MSM. At least 90% of what is reported is false and anything pro Russian is hidden. Hundreds of civilians' testimonies on telegram.

The German govt filed criminal charges against one of their journalists who went to the Donbass and let people there speak on camera. UK just put one of their citizens Graham Phillips on the sanctions list (like some Russian official or oligarch) for doing the same.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #907 on: August 01, 2022, 01:37:33 PM »

The suppression of news was Ukraine is amazing. Here is just one example. Very recently Kiev has been showering civilian residential areas of Donetsk with anti personnel mines using rockets. Perhaps thousands.
Can you imagine the reporting if Russia did this in Kiev?

I am providing the long post below to provide support. Don't trust me or any govt. Lots of video clips.


Very recently Kiev has been dispersing small anti personnel mines over Donetsk civilian areas. These would not put a dent in tanks but will blow off feet, especially unawares civilians. Lots shown on videos.

https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7643
Ukrainian artillerymen continue to remotely mine Donetsk. Local sources published a map of the alleged PFM-1 dispersal (https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7635?single) in the city center tonight.
https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7644
ZradaXXII, [7/30/2022 2:47 PM]
💥💣Deputy minister of information of the DPR on Ukrainian remote mining of Donetsk with anti-personnel butterfly mines:

Please spread as much as possible. The Armed Forces of Ukraine are actively mining Donetsk with anti-personnel mines remotely. Our air defense works, but even from downed missiles, mines can fall to the ground and remain active. I ask all residents NOT to let their children out of the house and to exercise maximum vigilance when moving around the city until the sappers of the Ministry of Emergency Situations and other law enforcement agencies inspect the city.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/3941
Ukrainian “petal” mines were found in the following streets, avenues and lanes of Donetsk:
...

GB: I know and have walked all of these streets. This all across central Donetsk, some major transportation arteries involved. All completely residential districts—not the slightest suspicion of any military targets. This is pure Ukrainian genocidal terrorism.

https://t.me/VanessaBeeley/7377
Donetsk right now (https://t.me/astrahandm/4731). Ukrainian Armed Forces have shelled the central Donetsk with PFM-1, a scatterable anti-personnel land mines (Lepestok).

Ukraine has been distantly mining Donetsk and its suburbs for several days already. A child’s weight is enough to make these mines detonate. They are small and almost invisible in the grass and on the ground.

The mines are deployed from mortars; they glide to the ground without exploding.

Several children have already died from stepping on these mines in the past days.

That’s an absolutely vicious and undeniable act of terrorism against civilians.
https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7648
One of the cassettes of a Ukrainian MLRS rocket did not explode during the shelling of Donetsk.

The ammunition is equipped with anti-personnel mines PFM-1 "Petal".

It should be specifically noted that Armed Forces of Ukraine are using mines against the civilian population of the city, which are not equipped with a self-destruction mechanism, thus remaining active years after being deployed.
https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7649
People are afraid to go home - streets in the center of Donetsk right now.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine are actively mining the center of Donetsk with anti-personnel butterfly mines (colloquially called 'petal mines' in Russian) - air defense is working, but the mines fall to the ground from downed missiles and do not explode. According to eyewitnesses, the entire Voroshilovsky district is strewn with PMF-1 - some of the cars were damaged when they ran over the mines.

Sappers are working throughout the center of Donetsk - the process of clearing roads is underway. People move around the city with caution - the mines are scattered literally at every step.

According to preliminary data, butterfly mines covered at least four quarters of the center of Donetsk - the roadway poses a particular danger.
https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7650
Mines in the center of Donetsk on Universitetskaya Street are being collected by the military with a shovel.

The Nazis fired a rocket-propelled cluster projectile with mines PFM-1 "petal" in the center of Donetsk.
One such missile carries 312 mines.


Mina PFM-1S is the simplest anti-personnel ammunition of the minimum size. The diameter of the product does not exceed 120 mm, the weight is only 80 g. 40 g of explosive is placed inside a lightweight plastic case. The push-to-action fuse is activated within 1-10 minutes after being released. A self-liquidator is provided that works 1-40 hours after activation.
When firing at maximum range with a volley of 16 9M27K3 shells, the mines are dispersed along an ellipse with an area of   up to 150 hectares. The average distance between individual mines does not exceed 10 m.

Recently, the Nazis are increasingly using this type of mining in Donetsk, Makeevka and Yasinovataya.
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7846
Reality Theories, Eva K Bartlett, [7/30/2022 2:11 PM]
[ Photo ]
This is the mild version of what the "petal" mines Ukraine is firing on the Donbass (https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7845), including one street away from where I am, will do to civilians who unfortunately tread on them.
https://t.me/intelslava/34236
🇷🇺🇺🇦??Specialists destroyed more than 600 high-explosive anti-personnel mines in Donetsk in just two days, Aleksey Kostrubitsky, head of the DPR Ministry of Emergency Situations, told RIA Novosti

In Donetsk an old lady put the "petal" mine in her bag to "show it at work." She thought it was just a shard. Fortunately, no one was hurt.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #908 on: August 01, 2022, 01:38:07 PM »

More support. Many videos.
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7848
Telegram (https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7846)
Reality Theories, Eva K Bartlett
This is the mild version of what the "petal" mines Ukraine is firing on the Donbass, including one street away from where I am, will do to civilians who unfortunately tread on them.
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7851
So you get a sense of how small & difficult to spot these powerful, nasty, mines are which Ukraine has littered on streets all over the DPR
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7852
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7855
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7856
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7860
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7861
this is the CENTRE of Donetsk, a popular pedestrian area with playgrounds & cafes! This is Ukraine targeting civilians, especially children, with insidious petal mines
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/7866
https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7652
Tanks being used in unusual role to clear the streets of the center of Donetsk from PMF-1 anti-personnel mines scattered by Ukraine with MLRS Uragan (https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7648).
https://t.me/ZradaXXII/7696
🔵🔴 In Donetsk, an insane woman put an anti-personnel petal mine in a bag with food to boast in front of her colleagues.

https://youtu.be/OcqfAk_7P0w

https://youtu.be/4m_D7EulAGA

https://rumble.com/v1e94mr-ukraine-launches-banned-anti-personnel-petal-mines-in-donetsk.html
https://rumble.com/v1e7d11-today-ukro-nazis-threw-at-donetsk-again-forbidden-anti-personnel-petal-mine.html
https://rumble.com/v1e4cj1-a-good-example-of-how-a-pfm-1-petal-mine-works.html
Reportedly, Ukrainian forces loaded Smerch MLRS launchers with them and fired them at Donetsk and now they're spread around a few districts. When the hard-to-see mines are stepped on they can take off a foot or lower leg.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #909 on: August 01, 2022, 01:48:01 PM »
...

Yeah, trusting any government to be honest with its people or themselves is a foolish thing.  Most of the "official" chatter is aimed either at blowing smoke at foreigners, your citizens or both...

The lack of tolerance for BS and the intelligence to discern it are the only factors that can increase or decrease it....

I know the US govt and MSM lie about man made climate change, green energy, Jan. 6, covid, vaccines, masks, etc. When the DC/fed cops shot Miriam Carey 5 times in the back through her rear car window I watched the US govt and MSM generate false propaganda in real time, smear her, hide or destroy evidence, then bury the story.

In Ukraine I tried to find both sides to the story and the best ones at that. Scott Horton at anti-war.com had the best providing the Russian side IMO. I waited to hear what the Ukr people recently conquered/liberated by the Russians would say. What they report is nothing like what we hear in the MSM. At least 90% of what is reported is false and anything pro Russian is hidden. Hundreds of civilians' testimonies on telegram.

The German govt filed criminal charges against one of their journalists who went to the Donbass and let people there speak on camera. UK just put one of their citizens Graham Phillips on the sanctions list (like some Russian official or oligarch) for doing the same.

Yeah, people have agendas and their version of the party line...for political survival, economic survival...self-interest drives all...and the more powerful one is generally speaking the crimes committed to stay powerful are much greater...same in Russia, speaking out against official narrative is silenced...those speaking out get grabbed off the streets for re-education or involuntary internment...arguing over degrees between x and y seems petty...right is right, wrong is wrong...I see wrong everywhere...

I'm sure the Russian families having their sons remains returned from Ukraine probably have a different outlook on things that the people in Moscow calling the shots...same in Ukraine...or anywhere else...war used to be the last action after diplomacy fails, now it seems the game played by all is the make diplomacy fail as fast as possible and just go to war...the tie-in to commercial interests being a big driver...the MIC exists in most states, not just the US...economics is an element of warfare now...everybody wants their filthy lucre...doesn't matter how...people better not ask why (they'll get lied to anyway)...and force is a quicker way to get there than actually negotiating something sides can live with...

I see noting changing that...horizon looks the same every direction right now...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #910 on: August 01, 2022, 02:02:16 PM »
I can't get the Telegraph links to work, probably need an account, which I won't get...

The YouTube and Rumble links work...but pictures of petal bombs and narration picking them up with shovels isn't proving anything to me as to lethality...it is proving to me they are disposing of them easy enough...only the last link showed one being triggered...look about equivalent to like maybe half-grenade strength (no shrapnel shroud)...

And this is where I need a referee to explain consistency in narratives...told by Putin that the special military operation was launched to protect Russian people and Russian interests in this areas...whose civilians are being targeted, Ukrainians (who shouldn't be there) or Russians (who may be civilians, militia or Russian soldiers)?

The narratives change to push one agenda or another and are not consistent...inconsistency may work for some, I always have a problem with it...

But who is a referee I can trust?  Maybe get a Filipino in there, or a monk from Tibet?  Good luck finding volunteers...all sides will want them murdered.

ETA - Actually, these petals make sense...saw something and forgot where so I cannot post it...but basically some anonymous government fop in the Pentagon admitting the cause (pushing back the Russians let alone stopping their consolidation) is lost...so inflicting harm for spite fits, doesn't it?

Again, our oppressors and their fellow travelers in the Pentagon are nuts, not us, this is on them...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 02:15:27 PM by Libertas »
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #911 on: August 01, 2022, 05:00:34 PM »
I don't know why you wouldn't get a telegram account. It is just an uncensored twitter, and twitter is censored for all sorts of topics. Telegram is the best source for uncensored current news on many topics.

Long ago US News & World Report used to have a feature "pro and con". One page both sides, divided into opposing columns right and left sides. Two sides of an issue. That was unusual. What was more unusual was that they got heavy hitters on both sides. I recall only one, universal health care, where Sen. Kennedy was on the pro side. That almost never happens now.

I do not want a referee. I want to to hear both sides. Like a court room.  I also want to hear factual reporting. Telegram is good for the factual part, coming directly from  sources, often civilians, often with videos. 

The petal mines are not meant to be lethal. They are meant to maim.

When I say these are civilian residential areas I do not take anyone's word for it although I give some weight to the testimony of locals. The military is mostly at the front, fighting, not hanging around inside the city. It also looks like a residential area from maps and especially from the videos.  Also, the military at the front might be DPR or they might be Russian. I appreciate that some things are dual use such as fuel depots. I did see one tank, used to run over the petal mines.

So, the people in the city are not Russian soldiers. They are Ukrainian civilians who live and work there. Kiev has been shelling such people for 8 years. This according to the locals getting shelled and the video clips. The recent petal mines are little different from past shelling, just different shells.
There are lots of videos where video bloggers will go to such areas, take videos, and interview the locals. I don't have a life so I have watched over a hundred.

After the 2014 coup, the Ukr govt was installed by the US, Russian language TV stations shut down, NAZIs took positions of influence, text books rewritten, Russian no longer in govt and stores, and parents no longer allowed to chose which language to education their children in. IMO they got all amped up on some weird ultra nationalism. IMO Ethnic hatred and ultra nationalism were and are the motives for the past and recent shelling.

The bulk of the local's testimony from Mariupol according to civilian testimony,  is that the troops sent by Kiev invaded them, robbed, raped, killed for sport, and used them as human shields. People from Mariupol were not defending Mariupol from the Russians or DPR. They mostly viewed the Russians/DPR as liberators. Who am I to argue?

Kiev forces would set fire to residences when leaving and often shell them or fire tank rounds. Also at churches.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #912 on: August 01, 2022, 05:16:02 PM »

I stopped posting most of what I find on telegram from civilian testimonies on camera. I trust them in bulk more than any govt reports. Too much to post and duplicative. Hundreds.

I have been truly amazed at how the MSM and govts report on Ukraine.
Over simplifying .....
The west sanctions Russian energy and food then blames it on Russian embargoes.
Ukr mines its own waterways and harbors then blames Russia.
Western MSM report this stuff as fact.
As Ukr forces retreat they have been destroying residences, markets, apts, churches. This is from reports of civilians in the areas. Kiev shuts of nat gas to those areas when they can.

Now according to some Spanish video blogger, Kiev is destroying grain stores as they leave. I am sure they will blame it on the Russians. Videos at links. Hundreds more.

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/7885
‘While the Western media was unleashing hysteria against Russia over the threat of a global famine due to a lack of Ukrainian wheat, Ukraine was burning tons of the grain,’ says Liu Sivaya, a Spanish blogger who reported the Ukrainian army burning tons of wheat in the village of Rubezhnoe in the Luhansk People's Republic.

https://rumble.com/v1dyipb-liu-sivaya-a-spanish-blogger-who-reported-the-ukrainian-army-burning-tons-o.html
Liu Sivaya, a Spanish blogger who reported the Ukrainian army burning tons of wheat
TellMeSweetLittleLies Published July 28, 2022 143 Views

https://youtu.be/zlrYBnttnt4
Liu Sivaya, a spanish War correspondent reports from the Alley of Angels in the center of Donetsk.


https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/7886
Residents of Lisichansk recalled how the Ukrainian Army shelled Orthodox churches
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #913 on: August 02, 2022, 08:08:19 AM »
I avoid social media, it is the easiest to be corrupted and feeds the spooks in CIA & NSA...closest thing I have to it is LinkedIn and I barely tolerate that noise...

You are more trusting of sources than I, I think everybody is full of crap.  Take that language issue...your in "Ukraine"...officially language would be expected to be "Ukrainian"...like speaking English here (that the DemoCommies corrupted by caving into the third world invaders and why we have effing signs in 8 languages!)...seems petty Russian butthurt to me, keep rehashing past sins...that's a game that can go on and on and on and if not stomped out ensures somebody suffers genocide...but, seems what they all want...I'm starting to not care...sucks for the innocent not wanting any of it...hopefully guilty on all sides suffer accordingly...

Same with the Nazi crap...Uke Nazi's/Russian Nazi's...WGAFF?  Same as American Nazi's and Soviet Nazi's... Don't care.

This sh*t show is in its last spasms...all that matters is the lust for war doesn't spill over into neighboring countries...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #914 on: August 02, 2022, 11:38:22 AM »
Seattle used to look sorta similar (not that many pretty girls!).

The formula was remarkably simple: Take a visually stunning background (The Puget Sound inland waterway, the Olympic mountain range to the west, and the Cascade mountain range to the east) and then add world class architecture provided by the Olmsted Brothers (whose father designed New York's Central Park among other treasures). Then feature all sorts of public events to gather people around and you have scenes like the Moscow video.

That's what I grew up enjoying. There was seemingly no end of things to do.

It's all but gone now. The progs have ruined it - all of it.

You literally couldn't film a similar video in Seattle now without bangers or gangsters or wandering crackheads or homeless bums intruding into the frame. The social scene was on life support when the coof visited itself on us. Our betters choked the life out of every diversionary entertainment. None survives. They still attempt some activities but they are all "look but don't touch" counterfeits that a suffocating "social distancing" restriction that has succeeded in making neurotics of all of us.

I live in a medium city about 30 miles to the south of Seattle. It's a working town so not much on the picturesque or frivolous here. When my parents moved here in the late 1980's it still had the quaint charm of (conservative) SmallTown USA. One could still do modest social events that leaned on good-natured neighborly instincts with an emphasis on informality, blue jeans and a solid work ethic. All that died several years ago when leftists gained control of the Mayor and City Council. They tried to turn us into some sort of Woke circle-jerk. Now it's a lot like the rust-belt - everything in decline and no one gives a damn.

I know that I don't.

The Moscow street videos made me very sad for what was lost in the US.
That is what civilization looks like.
I imagine anti US propaganda over seas consists of clips from the US evening news.
No need to write their own false propaganda when we make our own.

On occasion I would watch amateur travel videos that included street scenes and travel scenes.
Most of those places would not put up with the crap that we put up with.
Lots or stuff from the ADVChiina guys when they lived in China.
There is a NZ guy Indigo Traveller who traveled through Iran. Included a long hitch hiking part.
Parts had local guides. It seemed very civilized.
If he had been a citizen of the US ('the great Satan') he would have needed a govt approved minder.

Very long ago I was waiting for a ferry in Brindisi Italy. It had the feel of America around 1900 with a quaint town square. Some sort of festival was coming up. Old small town America. Then I saw the flags. Hammer and sickle. The local govt was communist party. Totally blew my mind. I could never process that.

https://youtu.be/HgEqlOFs56Q
WALKING STREETS OF IRAN 🇮🇷 (Met Local Girl)

https://youtu.be/6TleZuubucU
CRAZY HITCHHIKING IRAN 🇮🇷 (11 Cars/500 KM in One Day)

You might enjoy this...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/russian-embassy-just-released-new-video-mocking-west-time-move-russia-traditional-values-christianity-no-cancel-culture/

...to me it is a double-insult...

...insult #1 - kicking us when our oppressors have us down, but it is to be expected...

...insult #2 IMO is worse...like Russian pooh doesn't stink!  Swell, your not woke, not DemoCommie woke...maybe Ruling Russian Elite woke though...yeah, you don't overtly push one race over another (though I don't know if the more Asian/indigenously ethnic would agree in total), you shun gays/trans and all that, push nuclear families and traditional roles, swell...cheap natural resources you do not punish...swell...but it is our oppressors pushing all the crap, not us the oppressed...thanks for ignoring the distinction, assholes!  All in the face of what they don't tell you...like they are trying to impose here, they've already imposed there - one party rule, no vocal opposition allowed, that sh*t gets jailed or snuffed...and in addition to the noble exports of energy, vodka, caviar and ballet...there is the seedier exports of organized crime trafficking just about everything, arms sales to the worst regimes on the planet...and lots of prostitutes.  And hospitality?  Watch those videos I posted long ago about the Russian girl vlogging about suburbs of Moscow, how people avoid eye contact, rarely offer greetings...or even smile!  They've asked foreign tourists why they came to Russia!

Anyway...I'm beating a dead horse...surprised it has any flesh left...there is no perfect, anywhere...everything has blemishes, taints...the little dirty truths...

Update - The good folks at TPC found some interesting facts (much of what they boast is Ukrainian or Soviet) and some is odd (beautiful women and the clip shows young girls?)...is this meant as a farce or are they OK with cultural hijacking and links to Soviet ideals and pedophilia?

https://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/this-russia-t23042.html

So, without Ukraine, Mother Russia would not exist?
This video is Russian disinformation. - jackalopelipsky
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #915 on: August 02, 2022, 01:01:27 PM »
I avoid social media, it is the easiest to be corrupted and feeds the spooks in CIA & NSA...closest thing I have to it is LinkedIn and I barely tolerate that noise...

You are more trusting of sources than I
, I think everybody is full of crap.  Take that language issue...your in "Ukraine"...officially language would be expected to be "Ukrainian"...like speaking English here (that the DemoCommies corrupted by caving into the third world invaders and why we have effing signs in 8 languages!)...seems petty Russian butthurt to me, keep rehashing past sins...that's a game that can go on and on and on and if not stomped out ensures somebody suffers genocide...but, seems what they all want...I'm starting to not care...sucks for the innocent not wanting any of it...hopefully guilty on all sides suffer accordingly...

Same with the Nazi crap...Uke Nazi's/Russian Nazi's...WGAFF?  Same as American Nazi's and Soviet Nazi's... Don't care.

This sh*t show is in its last spasms...all that matters is the lust for war doesn't spill over into neighboring countries...


Why would you expect everyone in Ukraine to speak Ukrainian when that was not the case until the coup?
 
Do you expect people in Switzerland to speak Swiss? They have 3 official languages which may vary according to the Canton. "The four national languages of Switzerland are German, French, Italian, and Romansh. German, French, and Italian maintain equal status as official languages at the national level within the Federal Administration of the Swiss Confederation, while Romansh is used in dealings with people who speak it."

In many of the Russian republics there are two official languages, Russian and some local language and school children are taught in both.

Prior to 2022 MSM used to write up the Ukr NAZIs. Now they are mostly buried and not discussed. I think around 10% of the Ukr army are NAZIs. There are some units formed of them and sometimes they are embedded with normal Ukr army to stiffen them up and serve as commissars to enforce discipline. When they take their shirts off they have lots of NAZI tattoos.

I trust civilian locals talking on camera more than any other source, especially more than the MSM or govts.
The west is desperate to keep these people from talking on camera. One German journalist has been criminally charged back in Germany. A UK video blogger has been put on the UK sanction list.  A US and Canadian blogger have been put on a Ukr kill list. Previous Ukr journalists on the list have disappeared.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #916 on: August 03, 2022, 08:35:18 AM »
I avoid social media, it is the easiest to be corrupted and feeds the spooks in CIA & NSA...closest thing I have to it is LinkedIn and I barely tolerate that noise...

You are more trusting of sources than I
, I think everybody is full of crap.  Take that language issue...your in "Ukraine"...officially language would be expected to be "Ukrainian"...like speaking English here (that the DemoCommies corrupted by caving into the third world invaders and why we have effing signs in 8 languages!)...seems petty Russian butthurt to me, keep rehashing past sins...that's a game that can go on and on and on and if not stomped out ensures somebody suffers genocide...but, seems what they all want...I'm starting to not care...sucks for the innocent not wanting any of it...hopefully guilty on all sides suffer accordingly...

Same with the Nazi crap...Uke Nazi's/Russian Nazi's...WGAFF?  Same as American Nazi's and Soviet Nazi's... Don't care.

This sh*t show is in its last spasms...all that matters is the lust for war doesn't spill over into neighboring countries...


Why would you expect everyone in Ukraine to speak Ukrainian when that was not the case until the coup?  (That's called "Sovietization" that I do not endorse)
 
Do you expect people in Switzerland to speak Swiss? They have 3 official languages which may vary according to the Canton. "The four national languages of Switzerland are German, French, Italian, and Romansh. German, French, and Italian maintain equal status as official languages at the national level within the Federal Administration of the Swiss Confederation, while Romansh is used in dealings with people who speak it."

In many of the Russian republics there are two official languages, Russian and some local language and school children are taught in both.

Prior to 2022 MSM used to write up the Ukr NAZIs. Now they are mostly buried and not discussed. I think around 10% of the Ukr army are NAZIs. There are some units formed of them and sometimes they are embedded with normal Ukr army to stiffen them up and serve as commissars to enforce discipline. When they take their shirts off they have lots of NAZI tattoos. (And no Russian/Russophile acknowledges the Wagner Group's Nazi's and close ties to Putin)

I trust civilian locals talking on camera more than any other source, especially more than the MSM or govts.
The west is desperate to keep these people from talking on camera. One German journalist has been criminally charged back in Germany. A UK video blogger has been put on the UK sanction list.  A US and Canadian blogger have been put on a Ukr kill list. Previous Ukr journalists on the list have disappeared.  (But nobody ever documents/provides background of said "citizens"...could all be paid actors, who knows for certain?)

Again, so much noise...nothing changing the essential facts of who holds what ground...I just don't want to see any spillover BS and do not care who starts it or points fingers...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #917 on: August 03, 2022, 11:20:36 AM »
I avoid social media, it is the easiest to be corrupted and feeds the spooks in CIA & NSA...closest thing I have to it is LinkedIn and I barely tolerate that noise...

You are more trusting of sources than I
, I think everybody is full of crap.  Take that language issue...your in "Ukraine"...officially language would be expected to be "Ukrainian"...like speaking English here (that the DemoCommies corrupted by caving into the third world invaders and why we have effing signs in 8 languages!)...seems petty Russian butthurt to me, keep rehashing past sins...that's a game that can go on and on and on and if not stomped out ensures somebody suffers genocide...but, seems what they all want...I'm starting to not care...sucks for the innocent not wanting any of it...hopefully guilty on all sides suffer accordingly...

Same with the Nazi crap...Uke Nazi's/Russian Nazi's...WGAFF?  Same as American Nazi's and Soviet Nazi's... Don't care.

This sh*t show is in its last spasms...all that matters is the lust for war doesn't spill over into neighboring countries...


Why would you expect everyone in Ukraine to speak Ukrainian when that was not the case until the coup?  (That's called "Sovietization" that I do not endorse)
 
Do you expect people in Switzerland to speak Swiss? They have 3 official languages which may vary according to the Canton. "The four national languages of Switzerland are German, French, Italian, and Romansh. German, French, and Italian maintain equal status as official languages at the national level within the Federal Administration of the Swiss Confederation, while Romansh is used in dealings with people who speak it."

In many of the Russian republics there are two official languages, Russian and some local language and school children are taught in both.

Prior to 2022 MSM used to write up the Ukr NAZIs. Now they are mostly buried and not discussed. I think around 10% of the Ukr army are NAZIs. There are some units formed of them and sometimes they are embedded with normal Ukr army to stiffen them up and serve as commissars to enforce discipline. When they take their shirts off they have lots of NAZI tattoos. (And no Russian/Russophile acknowledges the Wagner Group's Nazi's and close ties to Putin)

I trust civilian locals talking on camera more than any other source, especially more than the MSM or govts.
The west is desperate to keep these people from talking on camera. One German journalist has been criminally charged back in Germany. A UK video blogger has been put on the UK sanction list.  A US and Canadian blogger have been put on a Ukr kill list. Previous Ukr journalists on the list have disappeared.  (But nobody ever documents/provides background of said "citizens"...could all be paid actors, who knows for certain?)

Again, so much noise...nothing changing the essential facts of who holds what ground...I just don't want to see any spillover BS and do not care who starts it or points fingers...

The Swiss have several official languages for reasons of history, not Sovietization. Also other countries. The Kingdom of Belgium has three official languages: Dutch, French, and German. A number of non-official, minority languages and dialects are spoken as well.SSA, swatsikas, linguistic situation in Luxembourg is characterized by the practice and the recognition of three official languages: French, German, and the national language Luxembourgish, established in law in 1984. Most countries there have a live and let live attitude. They do not fine people for speaking the wrong language in a store as they do in Ukraine.
The history of Europe different than the US.

I never heard that the Wagner group were NAZIs. In WWII around 26 M Soviets died so NAZIs are not popular. There are too many photos of Ukr soldiers with NAZI tattoos to count. SS symbols, swastikas, dark sun, even portraits of Hitler. Can you provide photos of the Wagner group with such tattoos? There are also videos of Ukr children singing fascist songs and giving the Heil Hitler salute. It looks like this is socially acceptable to do in public or they would not do it in public.

Why do you put "citizens" in quotes? Journalists like Patrick Lancaster, Graham Phillips, Eva Bartlett walk up to people on camera on sites and ask them questions. Also some guy from Telemundo, some German reporter and some French reporter. Some have been doing this for 8 years, some almost full time, some sporadically.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown

Offline Libertas

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #918 on: August 03, 2022, 11:38:37 AM »
I avoid social media, it is the easiest to be corrupted and feeds the spooks in CIA & NSA...closest thing I have to it is LinkedIn and I barely tolerate that noise...

You are more trusting of sources than I
, I think everybody is full of crap.  Take that language issue...your in "Ukraine"...officially language would be expected to be "Ukrainian"...like speaking English here (that the DemoCommies corrupted by caving into the third world invaders and why we have effing signs in 8 languages!)...seems petty Russian butthurt to me, keep rehashing past sins...that's a game that can go on and on and on and if not stomped out ensures somebody suffers genocide...but, seems what they all want...I'm starting to not care...sucks for the innocent not wanting any of it...hopefully guilty on all sides suffer accordingly...

Same with the Nazi crap...Uke Nazi's/Russian Nazi's...WGAFF?  Same as American Nazi's and Soviet Nazi's... Don't care.

This sh*t show is in its last spasms...all that matters is the lust for war doesn't spill over into neighboring countries...


Why would you expect everyone in Ukraine to speak Ukrainian when that was not the case until the coup?  (That's called "Sovietization" that I do not endorse)
 
Do you expect people in Switzerland to speak Swiss? They have 3 official languages which may vary according to the Canton. "The four national languages of Switzerland are German, French, Italian, and Romansh. German, French, and Italian maintain equal status as official languages at the national level within the Federal Administration of the Swiss Confederation, while Romansh is used in dealings with people who speak it."

In many of the Russian republics there are two official languages, Russian and some local language and school children are taught in both.

Prior to 2022 MSM used to write up the Ukr NAZIs. Now they are mostly buried and not discussed. I think around 10% of the Ukr army are NAZIs. There are some units formed of them and sometimes they are embedded with normal Ukr army to stiffen them up and serve as commissars to enforce discipline. When they take their shirts off they have lots of NAZI tattoos. (And no Russian/Russophile acknowledges the Wagner Group's Nazi's and close ties to Putin)

I trust civilian locals talking on camera more than any other source, especially more than the MSM or govts.
The west is desperate to keep these people from talking on camera. One German journalist has been criminally charged back in Germany. A UK video blogger has been put on the UK sanction list.  A US and Canadian blogger have been put on a Ukr kill list. Previous Ukr journalists on the list have disappeared.  (But nobody ever documents/provides background of said "citizens"...could all be paid actors, who knows for certain?)

Again, so much noise...nothing changing the essential facts of who holds what ground...I just don't want to see any spillover BS and do not care who starts it or points fingers...

The Swiss have several official languages for reasons of history, not Sovietization. Also other countries. The Kingdom of Belgium has three official languages: Dutch, French, and German. A number of non-official, minority languages and dialects are spoken as well.SSA, swatsikas, linguistic situation in Luxembourg is characterized by the practice and the recognition of three official languages: French, German, and the national language Luxembourgish, established in law in 1984. Most countries there have a live and let live attitude. They do not fine people for speaking the wrong language in a store as they do in Ukraine.
The history of Europe different than the US.

I never heard that the Wagner group were NAZIs. In WWII around 26 M Soviets died so NAZIs are not popular. There are too many photos of Ukr soldiers with NAZI tattoos to count. SS symbols, swastikas, dark sun, even portraits of Hitler. Can you provide photos of the Wagner group with such tattoos? There are also videos of Ukr children singing fascist songs and giving the Heil Hitler salute. It looks like this is socially acceptable to do in public or they would not do it in public.

Why do you put "citizens" in quotes? Journalists like Patrick Lancaster, Graham Phillips, Eva Bartlett walk up to people on camera on sites and ask them questions. Also some guy from Telemundo, some German reporter and some French reporter. Some have been doing this for 8 years, some almost full time, some sporadically.

The difference being the Swiss and Belgians don't have as extensive political and cultural differences...thought that was obvious.

As for Wagner, I posted a pic of that tatted-up Dmitry Utkin who founded the Wagner Group, or ?????? ??????? in Russian...he was a GRU Lt.Col. and received 4 Orders of Courage

Wagner's logo look rather Aryan, don't ya think? 



Leaders Alexey Milchakov & Yan Petrovsky active in Ukraine...gosh, nobody in Russia is even talking about it.  At least Uke's Nazi's are well in the open, LOL!

They've been all over, Georgia, Syria, Africa...Ukraine...nobody cares, how nice!  Good Nazi's are so much more tolerable than bad ones!

/

As for civilians, exactly...interview people on streets...nobody vets these people, just takes their word for it...don't even know if they've been previously coached...there is no proof either way.  Ask any baby-momma in Chicago about their Dindu's...about as reliable as far as I am concerned...
We are now where The Founders were when they faced despotism.

Online patentlymn

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Re: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine
« Reply #919 on: August 03, 2022, 03:08:55 PM »
What is the symbol above? Does it have a name?
It does not look familiar to me.
When the law becomes a ruse, lawlessness becomes legitimate. -unknown