Author Topic: The Battle over East vs West (Russia vs Europe) continues in Ukraine (Read 88181 times)

Pandora · « **Reply #960 on:** September 12, 2022, 01:29:16 PM »

Did money finally change hands for the "annexation"/purchase of Crimea or not?

Libertas · « **Reply #961 on:** September 12, 2022, 03:33:45 PM »

Quote from: Pandora on September 12, 2022, 01:29:16 PM

Did money finally change hands for the "annexation"/purchase of Crimea or not?

Not that I can tell...

Treaty of Jassy recognized annexation...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Jassy

...reinstated the terms of the earlier treaty of...well I am not spelling this mess...

https://www.prlib.ru/en/history/618929

...the 28 articles mention no payment...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_K%C3%BC%C3%A7%C3%BCk_Kaynarca

...unless you count the exchange of gifts on bestowed upon each enjoy on the frontier in Article 27...

...and Russia pissed in the Turkish pond a half century or so later and started the Crimean War.

Libertas · « **Reply #962 on:** September 13, 2022, 09:08:51 AM »

The timing is highly suspect...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/large-scale-fighting-breaks-out-between-armenia-azerbaijan

...all we need now is for Moldova to go hot and it can be a three-ring circus.

War, lookin' like a never-ending affair...

patentlymn · « **Reply #963 on:** September 13, 2022, 10:19:50 AM »

^^^
Plus Poland wants reparations from Germany AND some current territorial dispute from WWII between Germany and Czech.

Pandora · « **Reply #964 on:** September 13, 2022, 11:31:24 AM »

The CIA has been pretty busy, I see.

Libertas · « **Reply #965 on:** September 13, 2022, 11:53:48 AM »

With former Blackwater clowns in among the Azov Battalion pushing Russians back...providing real-time intel from our Global Hawks and such sniffing about? Yeah, just a little busy...

Libertas · « **Reply #966 on:** September 14, 2022, 09:38:38 AM »

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/another-russian-energy-exec-found-dead-fell-overboard-boat-full-speed

Taken out by a Putin rival or a Western assassin? Frankly, I think the rival might be more likely...merely because they are likely more competent...

Putin's "sovereign path" with Pals...so long as a path does not step on Russian toes I suspect...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-asias-future-takes-shape-vladivostok-russian-pacific

No doubt Xi feels the same about Communist China...we'll see what the SCO meet reveals, nothing shocking I predict.

As for this...

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nato-kicks-naval-war-games-near-group-russian-ships

Jeesh, must be Code Pink Libertarians...exercises in Med anywhere are nothing new...operating near Russians, Chinese...whatever...nothing new...only thing new is people's ignorance.

If anything it is a convenient event at a time where two members are threatening war with each other...

https://itsaboutliberty.com/index.php/topic,17665.new.html#new

As for sovereign paths...talk about subjective application!

The Kyiv Security Compact (KSC)—proposed by Andriy Yermak, the head of Zelensky's office, and former NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen—would also establish a "multi-decade" plan of investment, military training, and intelligence sharing to bolster Ukraine's defensive capabilities as the country pursues full NATO membership.

The Kremlin's reaction has been swift and fierce, with Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of Russia Dmitry Medvedev warning that it is "really a prologue to the Third World War" if it gets enacted. He described that nuclear holocaust would be the end result.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/prologue-3rd-world-war-kremlin-reacts-security-guarantees-ukraine

Sounds like a promise to escalate to nuclear. Good to know. Now, Dmitry, and the rest of the Slavic Imperialists...I hope you realize the socialist totalitarian filth we have contaminating this nation's political scene and the entire bureaucracy are batshyt-crazy and do not care that they get you, Ukrainians and us innocent Americans slaughtered in any holocaust...any projection of power by you is going to trigger a response...they are cornered by their insanity, you are cornered by your own Slavic imperial arrogance.

The innocent and the guilty are all equally f**ked. Everybody best get used to it.

patentlymn · « **Reply #967 on:** September 14, 2022, 02:15:19 PM »

I listened to Ritter, Duran, and New Atlas.
1. Kherson counter attack was suicidal attack over open ground ordered by Ze over the Ukr MOD. Slaughter.
2. Russian presence in Izyum was earlier said to be not to RU advantage.
3. RU drew down forces there by 10x to 20x.
4. US and Ukr knew about #3. RU knew that we knew.
5. Ukr attacked with light infantry over back roads.
6. RU had previously withdrawn most working heavy weapons.
7. RU withdrew faster than Ukr advanced so little fighting.
8. RU aviation did kill advancing Ukr troops who gained a great deal of land.
9. RU troops had moved to more advantageous position.
10. RU MOD did not consider the massive PR disaster to RU populous who are pissed as hell.

11. RU can win by continuing to grind down Ukr troops at little loss to themselves while waiting for General Winter to reduce support by EU population. The west wants to disrupt that pattern maybe by goading RU into doing something more aggressive.

Vox Day and comments mock the current press on recent Ukraine reporting.
https://voxday.net/2022/09/14/ukraine-is-the-new-hannibal/
Ukraine is the New Hannibal

And apparently the media would like us to believe that the recent Ukrainian offensive is the greatest military maneuver since the double-envelopment at Cannae and Vladimir Putin is now out of options. Checkmate, Putin!

Libertas · « **Reply #968 on:** September 14, 2022, 04:21:55 PM »

Quote from: patentlymn on September 14, 2022, 02:15:19 PM

I listened to Ritter, Duran, and New Atlas.
1. Kherson counter attack was suicidal attack over open ground ordered by Ze over the Ukr MOD. Slaughter.
2. Russian presence in Izyum was earlier said to be not to RU advantage.
3. RU drew down forces there by 10x to 20x.
4. US and Ukr knew about #3. RU knew that we knew.
5. Ukr attacked with light infantry over back roads.
6. RU had previously withdrawn most working heavy weapons.
7. RU withdrew faster than Ukr advanced so little fighting.
8. RU aviation did kill advancing Ukr troops who gained a great deal of land.
9. RU troops had moved to more advantageous position.
10. RU MOD did not consider the massive PR disaster to RU populous who are pissed as hell.

11. RU can win by continuing to grind down Ukr troops at little loss to themselves while waiting for General Winter to reduce support by EU population. The west wants to disrupt that pattern maybe by goading RU into doing something more aggressive.

Vox Day and comments mock the current press on recent Ukraine reporting.
https://voxday.net/2022/09/14/ukraine-is-the-new-hannibal/
Ukraine is the New Hannibal

And apparently the media would like us to believe that the recent Ukrainian offensive is the greatest military maneuver since the double-envelopment at Cannae and Vladimir Putin is now out of options. Checkmate, Putin!

10-The vassals are often an afterthought (or pawn) for the masters, nothing new there.

11-Only an idiot is unaware that Russians know how to exploit winter (even our woke Pentagon and DeepState know this)...starving freezing Euro's in revolt will remind the Bolsheviks in Brussels...and as I said above I think the Russians can be goaded...their DNA prevents them from refusing bait that calls their Slavic preeminence into question.

As for that latter crap...only an imbecile ignorant of history, like I mean all of it...sees that as a great victory...it had little to do with warfare and more to do about PR. And, wearing Russian boots...it might be advantageous for them to take the PR hit (explains why they pissed their vassals off, makes it sell better) to suck out some assets in well mapped ground and whack some jubilant foes.

Bottom line...I see things being exceptionally bullish for expanded war...bearish for peaceful resolution.

patentlymn · « **Reply #969 on:** September 14, 2022, 08:57:19 PM »

I try to parse all the BS and figure out what is going on.
Some have compared this to the battle of the bulge.
Check out vox day for his commentary.
https://voxday.net/2022/09/14/ukraine-is-the-new-hannibal/

Libertas · « **Reply #970 on:** September 15, 2022, 09:27:10 AM »

Understanding military tactics, leadership, assets and the battlespace and key players can assist with that.

As for the glorious counter-attack...seems my assertion is being collaborated -

Arguably this may have been a one-off. The NATO-run Kiev forces simply can’t do a replay anywhere in Donbass, or in Kherson, or in Mariupol. These are all protected by strong, regular Russian Army units.

It’s practically a given that if the Ukrainians remain around Kharkov and Izyum they will be pulverized by massive Russian artillery. Military analyst Konstantin Sivkov maintains that, “most combat-ready formations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are now being grounded (…) we managed to lure them into the open and are now systematically destroying them.”
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The next days will show whether Kharkov and Izyum are connected to a much larger NATO push. The mood in NATO-controlled EU is approaching Desperation Row. There’s a strong possibility this counter-offensive signifies NATO entering the war for good, while displaying quite tenuous plausible deniability: their veil of – fake – secrecy cannot disguise the presence of “advisers” and mercenaries all across the spectrum.
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The RGS may opt for a serious strategic strike of the decapitating kind elsewhere – as in changing the subject for the worse (for NATO).

It may opt for sending more troops to protect the front line (without partial mobilization).

And most of all it may enlarge the SMO mandate – going to total destruction of Ukrainian transport/energy infrastructure, from gas fields to thermal power plants, substations, and shutting down nuclear power plants.

Well, it could always be a mix of all of the above: a Russian version of Shock and Awe – generating an unprecedented socio-economic catastrophe. That has already been telegraphed by Moscow: we can revert you to the Stone Age at any time and in a matter of hours (italics mine). Your cities will greet General Winter with zero heating, freezing water, power outages and no connectivity.
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Exit SMO. Enter War.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-kharkov-game-changer

I think I've made it clear by now I often do not give much weight to Pepe's postings, he's got a permanent jones for Putin...but in this case I think the blind squirrel found a nut, for his central points I highlighted above dovetail with my own suspicions.

Having said that...back to my 'insanity of the West to not care what happens' meeting 'Russia's Slavic master' mindset...more goading is coming to which the Russian ethos will be unable to avoid...

A senior US defense official said Washington and its allies were discussing Ukraine’s longer term needs, such as air defenses, and whether it might be appropriate to give Kyiv fighter aircraft in the "medium to longer term". To date, the US and its allies have declined to do so.
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But now US defense officials are looking over a new strategy proposal and weapons request submitted by Valeriy Zaluzhny, the commander in chief of Ukraine’s force. WSJ details of the document:

They argued that Russia has long-range cruise missiles that greatly outdistance the systems in the Ukrainian inventory. A turning point could come if the Ukrainians also had longer-range systems, they argued, specifically mentioning the ATACMS.

"The only way to radically change the strategic situation is, without a doubt, for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to launch several consecutive, and ideally, simultaneous counterattacks during the 2023 campaign," they wrote.
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Meanwhile, on Tuesday the White House previewed that yet another fresh arms package for Ukraine is likely to be announced in the coming days. This as Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin has pledged that NATO allies are ready to support the war against Russia for the "long haul".
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-ukraine-are-talks-transfer-fighter-jets-longer-range-missiles

Sidebar - Interesting that Ukraine thinks it may be in a position to press issues in 2023...there is still 3 1/2 months of this year left, and Mr. Winter has yet to appear.

Given what Russia said earlier about the KSC...seems the ratcheting up of kinetic options is going to be in Putin's hands.

And the never-resolved Nagorno-Karabakh issue keeps heating up.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/armenia-warns-allies-clashes-could-escalate-war-azerbaijan-has-taken-territory

Cue more apocalyptic quotations...

Libertas · « **Reply #971 on:** September 16, 2022, 08:02:04 AM »

https://youtu.be/esk9jr_DOfw

Those would be the former Blackwater mercs on safari in Ukraine...no doubt funded with taxpayer funds against taxpayer wishes...

H/T-WRSA@GAB

Dude, the totalitarians running this corrupt illegitimate government do not give a frack about what Russia thinks and they care even less about what we the oppressed fricken citizens think...this needs to penetrate every thick skull pronto, got it?!

Jeepers Cripes! Some people just like pissing in the wind and blaming others for getting covered in pee...

PS - More historical support for mine & Pepe's suspicions regarding the recent Kharkov activity...Soviet "Maskirovka" tactics -

https://imetatronink.substack.com/p/fall-like-a-thunderbolt

Also, this is a bit long and get be a bit dry...but essentially, this retired Marine Lt. Gen Riper who is a disciple and practitioner of modern maneuver warfare for which Col. John Boyd (40 second Boyd/maneuver/OODA Loop) is the Godfather of said doctrine (read about Riper's OpFor success as Iranian vs US Navy in the 2002 Millennium Challenge war games...the REMFs hit the reset button and Riper lit them up and walked out..."Nothing was learned from this. And a culture not willing to think hard and test itself does not augur well for the future.") is very concerned that American's may end up fighting practitioners of John Boyd -

https://imetatronink.substack.com/p/a-former-us-marine-corps-officershtml

Well, woke REMF's who've purged all true warriors from their ranks...led by illegitimate corrupt political imbeciles...

Looks grim from this citizen's point of view...

patentlymn · « **Reply #972 on:** September 16, 2022, 12:25:29 PM »

I saw a video. If German BASF shuts down for lack of nat gas it will take much of EU manufacturing with it as they are dependent.

As you said, the govt leaders of the EU and Germany do not care about their citizens.

Libertas · « **Reply #973 on:** September 16, 2022, 02:38:52 PM »

With Mr. Winter coming...Eurotards could find themselves in the middle of a full-blown civil revolt...and only a fellow traveling stooge would blame them for being upset at their idiotic masters...

And, watched SpecOpsMOnkey update a little bit ago...more confirmation that my suspicions around the Kharkov retreat was sucking out the stupid for slaughter...it looks like Russian artillery is lighting up the entire Eastern Ukrainian front...including the recently vacated areas...

And, disturbingly an outfit known for transporting US troops abroad has put some boots on the ground near the Georgia/Albania border...this is as stupid as stupid gets...monumentally stupid beyond even Syrian levels. Talk about having zero national security interest in an area...you can make a case for Syria (sans stupid reasons like arming crazies) but there is absolutely zip for this useless patch of dirt.

ClownWorld is getting more stupid by the minute...

patentlymn · « **Reply #974 on:** September 18, 2022, 09:41:59 AM »

IMO Kharkov was a Russian screw up but maybe not. Some talking heads said long ago that there was no military reason for Russia to control Izyum. Troops were needed elsewhere much more. So Russia drew down forces near Izyum maybe 10 or 20 fold. Maybe Russia did so and did not expect a Ukr attack. RU withdrew forces in a big hurry so there was almost no fighting.

Ukr said RU left lots of equipment behind but from the videos I saw, not much. There is some Ukr general, maybe head of the Ukr MOD. I cannot recall his whole name, call him Gen. Zu. He went public and opposed the Kherson counter attack but Ze overruled him. I believe it was a slaughter. Gen. Zu had proposed the Izyum attack which was then done successfully. Light infantry moving fast over back roads with no Russian opposition.

Scott Ritter had some interesting comments somewhere. Maybe on the Grayzone? Ukr had crossed a river over pontoon bridges and established a beach head. RU hit a dam with a missile and the wall of water knocked out the bridges, stranding the Ukr troops on the other side. RU then pounded them.

RU took out power near Kherson but only for a day or two, so likely towers not major equipment. Why? This is civilian infrastructure. Ritter thinks that RU wanted to withdraw forces and establish a second front back further and did not want the Ukr army to over run the second front before it was established. So disrupt troops movements especially electric trains?

I did not follow the Georgian battles years ago. I recently looked them up and learned that Georgia started the thing. This is not from RU propaganda but from the cameras of the invading Georgian troops as they filmed it like tourists.

I do not follow the Ukr war day to day.

I was watching iEarlGrey and he played a video summary of the previous day's military activity.
The Rybar maps are said to be accurate. The editorial content is pro Russian.
Here is the source.
https://t.me/rybar/38796
or video version
https://youtu.be/MdVgAoUMIrM?t=599

patentlymn · « **Reply #975 on:** September 18, 2022, 10:07:33 AM »

I found some sources for Ukr news. They have been accused of being pro Russian.
New Atlas is former US marine who now lives in Thailand.
He includes links to support what he reports. He has interesting take on China, SE Asia, and US efforts to subvert countries using US govt funded NGOs.

In this one he has 4-5 links.
https://youtu.be/G3Vt7fmaGns

US Ammunition Running Low for Ukraine, No Quick Fix for Shortage
94,555 views Sep 15, 2022 The Western media based on US Army market surveys is taking notice of critical shortages of munitions among US stockpiles and what is available to send Ukraine.

The shortages undoubtedly have and will continue to manifest themselves on the battlefield in the form of Ukrainian forces being constantly outgunned.

References:

Alex below is former diplomat's kid. He grew up in US, Russia, Mexico, maybe elsewhere. From Cyprus. He does not like the EU, in part because of how they treated Cyprus.
https://youtu.be/hECvK7aRp6w
Politico, Hungary’s pro-Russia stance. 'Unnatural' borders. Biden, long range missiles. Update 1

IEarlyGrey is OK. UK expat lives in St. Petersburg with RU wife and kids.
https://youtu.be/3CH9KrLjgm8
'Leaked' Ukrainian Peace Deal. EU Lawmakers "Hungary Is No Longer A Democracy".

patentlymn · « **Reply #976 on:** September 18, 2022, 02:28:02 PM »

As Germany ends itself to spite Russia. Not worth it.
https://youtu.be/hjVbF62fSKk

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Re: EU, Switzerland, Brexit, France, Ukraine, Russia

#721 Post by patentlymn » Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:21 pm
As Germany ends itself to spite Russia. Not worth it.
https://youtu.be/hjVbF62fSKk

Richard Wagner: Götterdämmerung - Finale

patentlymn · « **Reply #977 on:** September 18, 2022, 03:51:42 PM »

The content of this 4 1/2 min video is not that important.
The guy asking the questions is from UK and speaks Russian. He was put on the UK sanctions list for doing what he does here. Just like some Russian oligarch or bank. One report said his bank account and house was seized but I am not sure if that is true.
He puts a mic in front of people in the Donbass and asks them questions.
I saw part of the charging documents, he obtained them later, that he "provided a platform" for pro Russian views.

https://youtu.be/_tA78U7KbJQ
Lysychansk - The People Speak!! (Uncensored Reportage - Donbass)
5,042 views Sep 18, 2022 From Lysychansk with truth, once more! Thanks again for all your support of my work, if you'd like to be on my mailing list, send me an email at gwplondon@gmail.com - thanks again, Graham

Libertas · « **Reply #978 on:** September 19, 2022, 12:30:24 PM »

Funny how the maskirovka worked and following up on some front-wide artillery barrages see a counter-offensive...

https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1571593010072395776

...must suck to be a piss-poor military leader...

...even suckier is having to follow one...

patentlymn · « **Reply #979 on:** September 19, 2022, 02:51:56 PM »

Some random thoughts. My impression was that the DPR and LPR did most of the fighting but I thought that view was skewed and wrong. Now I think maybe they did most of the fighting at least early on and the Russians supported them. There was some LPR militia who went public and said they liberated LPR and would go no further. Maybe they were pissed and were saying they did most of the fighting and dying and would not fight past their borders?

This guy has a different take on the military actions near Kharkov.
In short.
The Russians had previously withdrawn most forces.
The Russians had previously removed the civilians who wanted to leave.
Those remaining were anti Russian so they were mostly not left to be screwed over by the Ukr forces.
The Russians withdrew fast so there was little fighting.
There had been no front there. I do not understand what he means exactly.

The Ukr forces were now out in the open and subject to attack.
Russians have been attacking Ukr forces. Maybe this was a trap to kill Ukr troops?
The Russian objective is to kill Ukr troops and they are. "Demilitarization" is their stated goal.
Also retaking the Donbass.
They may or may not hold the land there.
He said the number killed was even worse than in Kherson!!!!

https://youtu.be/v7pW_KqX8QA?t=1181

Betrayal
45,346 views Sep 11, 2022 White noise of propaganda. 9/11.